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Ryan Tannehill Tier 3 according to ESPN

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Aug 9, 2016.

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  1. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty sad they have to use that game and the Detroit game to try to make their point. You're fighting an unarmed man Jdang.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Pay ****ing attention.

    I'm not talking about nebulous ****ing things.

    I'm being VERY GODDAMNED SPECIFIC ABOUT HIS CIRCUMSTANCES...and have been for years.

    Name one QB whose thrived, excelled, etc. with a **** oline, no running game and not allowed to audible. <--------Those are the circumstances I'm asking about.

    Now if you're gonna keep going down this stupid bull**** road about how every situation is a snowflake, when you know damned good and well, those things are not unique, then you've proven you're not only full of ****, but are, in fact, just trying to cause trouble.

    All this really is, is one more member of the Tannhaters, trying to discount my very logical and reasonable argument that totally derails your guys' entire hate.
     
  3. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Watch your mouth little guy. Everybody on the board other than Falco is smart enough to know you're never going to accept any example of a QB who has succeeded with little to work with. It's cute you think you have a bullet proof plan to suckle thills nipples but incase you haven't noticed nobody gives 2 ****s about your criteria other than resnor (maybe) and falco.
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Watch my mouth? lol. **** you.

    I've never been given an example of a QB who excelled with those three things. I'll accept idf you give one, but you can't, because I'm right and I hope, sincerely hope that hurts you. I hope it keeps you up at night and you have to trash your keyboard in rage because you still can't take me in an argument.
     
  5. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    U can't be serious?! If your life really that sad that this board is that important to you? Come on man. Nobody gives 2 ****s what you think. Nobody! Other than maybe falco and I doubt he really gives 2 ****s about u either. You're on a message board bro. Grow the **** up
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Hahahahaha ok, man. I clearly don't matter to you. How exactly have you proven that again?

    Was it by busting in this thread for no other reason than to insult me? I mean do you think that proves I don't give you a rage boner?

    I mean you didn't refute anything I said with anything other than insults.

    Tell you what, I'll give you another chance to prove this isn't about how much I piss you off....

    Without insulting me, tell me the ways a QB compensates for an oline that can't pass block and allows a lot of pressure up the middle.
     
  7. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You are correct in your evaluation sir.

    It's like "Ryan has bad surroundings" is not strong enough. That's atleast true.

    But then you get this dumb *** question that is OPINION based and all of a sudden you have a chaotic thread. Funny it is allowed to continue. Not to mention the constant "GAWDDAMN" being thrown around...is that not circumventing the profanity filter?

    Amazes me how problems are just ignored, it's like some folks are the Dallas Thomas of these forums, I wonder how the hell they stick around with all these bad performances.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    You don't piss me off. Nobody on a message board pisses me off. I'm a grown *** man with an extremely lucky life. I'm not going to live and die on a message board like you do. How do you know who in the history of the nfl had the ability to audible and who didn't? Is free range to audible really the difference between Tannehill and Rodgers? Really? There's been plenty of QBs who have played better than thill without a running game and pressure. I respond to you because you fascinate me FinD. I want to understand where the **** ur coming from but it's obvious that you have a much tougher go of it than I do. For your sake I hope you don't take this board and yourself as serious as it seems. Maybe join a gym and work some of that stress off before you kill over at 45.
     
  9. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Dallas Thomas analogy is spot on. I don't get much time to spend on here during the off season but I'm always mildly surprised he's still here and still spewing the same 3 posts over and over. Guy obviously has way too much riding on this message board. Somebody, anybody PLEASE like me and accept me! It's almost sad.
     
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  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Blah, blah, blah. Your actions say otherwise. Again, I clearly piss you off. That is obvious. So obvious, you denying it makes me wonder if you're even well.

    Where the **** did I say the difference between Rodgers and Thill was audibles? Where?

    I asked you a question and hoped you could answer with out insulting me. You did neither. That is not what happy people who know what they're talking about do.

    Again, how does a QB counter a **** oline? Are you even capable of answering this without making it about me?
     
  11. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    He gets rid of the ball quickly, slides in the pocket and scrambles. Often times thill doesn't have enough time to do any of those. The oline needs to improve. The qb needs to improve. The defense needs to improve.
     
  12. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    There's a large gap between you pissing me off and what you actually do which is humor me, annoy me and amaze me all at the same time. I have no reason to lie to you FinD. I'd tell ya if you pissed me off. As if it'd matter. You're a stranger on a message board. I don't take this as seriously as u do. I'm here to read about the Fins and occasionally interact. You seem to be here because it's the only social interaction you get. But enough about this crap. Let's move on. I'm getting bored with you and nobody wants to listen to us bicker. I answered ur question without "making it about you". You're welcome
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Well, he's gotten rid of the ball quickly. That's why Landry and short passes have been the bread and butter of this offense. I submit he has no room to slide in the pocket. Most QBs struggle with inside pressure. Its pretty difficult to scramble away form that unless you're Wilson. So is that it? Running the fewest amount of times in the NFL plays no part in allowing the defense to tee off on a crap oline? Not being able to audible out of play based on the defensive look wouldn't help that either I suppose?

    My problem with you people is simple.

    You begrudgingly acknowledge that all of this is true. But then you turn around and say the STUPIDEST crap and put the majority of blame on Thill for the offense and the team. Its asinine. You're not fair. You're not balanced. You're not reasonable.

    You are basically saying I know that boxer has his hands handcuffed behind his back, but he can't punch and he should improve that. Which is fine if your analysis is that weak and lightweight. Have it, enjoy your basic understanding of things. But get off my jock and don't argue with people trying to delve deeper into the problems/issues.

    And one more time, you jumped in here to insult me. So just stop with the lies about how above it all you are.
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Well this thread has naturally taken a turn for the worst.
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The lesson to be learned is, if you don't subscribe to the notion that Thill sucks, and you also bring a reasonable argument, then people jump your ****, insult you then tell you its your fault.
     
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  16. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The first two sentences are exactly the point.

    How would you like Tannehill to improve? I don't disagree that he needs to improve. HOWEVER, he's not Wilson, he doesn't have Barry Sanders-esque lateral agility. He will never, ever, ever be able to evade pressure like Wilson. So, that being true, you have to give him other ways of countering pressure. The first, most logical start, is to give him at least average oline players, not guys like Thomas and Turner.
     
  18. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Kindly quote the poster who said Tannehill sucks.....I'll be waiting....begrudgingly :)
     
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  19. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    I agree Res. We got incredibly lucky with Tunsil falling in our laps, otherwise we would probably be up **** creek again this year. We still may. I don't expect Thill to be Wilson. I just want him to be better when given the opportunity.
     
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  20. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Struggling to convert on 3rd down has a lot to do with the low number of rushing attempts no? It certainly doesn't help. It's tough to get a lot of rushing attempts when your drive goes something like 1st down screen to Landry for 3 yards, 2nd down run for 1 yard and a 2 yard pass on 3rd and 6. Dolphins have basically substituted a crap running game with a craptacular dink and dunk passing game. It has its place but at some point you have to throw to the sticks on 3rd down. I don't think youll find anybody on here who doesn't want the Fins to run the ball more but you have to actually be halfway effective picking up 3rd downs in order to run. Its tough to consistently pick up 10 yards on 2 runs especially behind a crap oline. I'd love to see Tannehill get outside the pocket more, where he's effective throwing the ball. Ofcourse id like to see him slide in the pocket and pick up the blitz quicker as well. Plenty of times it wouldn't matter who is at QB with the oline but theres other times where Thill gets deer in the headlights. And to your other point, who is to say Thill would be any better if given complete control over audibles? I think he should be given that right but I'm sure there's a reason. May have nothing to do with Tannehill or it may have everything to do with him. Wasn't Thill given audible opportunities with Sherman?
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I think what would help these discussions, and this isn't aimed at you, is if people would actually give things that Tannehill needs to improve on. For instance, the deep ball. Now, did I think Tannehill threw a horrible deep ball? No. Did it need work? Yes. Does Tannehill have horrible pocket presence? Hard to say...I've seen him try to escape pressure by going outside, or climbing the pocket, and watched him get smacked there. So, he might need work, but it's hard to evaluate because the oline has been so poor. There's just a pretty good contingent on here who seem to believe that Tannehill has been the major factor in our last four mediocre seasons, and the debate spirals out of control when that is the direction of the discussion.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The other issue with those drives is how many drives did we see start out with a hold or false start on first down? We were very often in very unmanageable 3rd downs.

    Tannehill should be out of the pocket. I've never understood why the coaches didn't run more of those sort of plays.

    The audibles, Campbell said that Philbin/ Lazor took them away because even though he made good choices, it slowed down his rhythm. That sounds like something that should have been improved with coaching, though, not just taken away.
     
  23. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Penalties definitely killed us last year. Way too many oline penalties. When you're trying to go 5 yards at a time you just don't have much room for error. We have some real good RAC guys this year so hopefully we pick up some chunk yards on quick slants, crossing routes and quick hitters. I'm hoping to see us take some shots in the intermediate range though more often. Thill is solid in the 10-20 range. Parker hopefully being healthy should help the downfield passing game as well. I think Thill trusts him one on one to win a jump ball. The X factor this year is Cameron. I hope he plays up to his talent this year because he should be a big play TE.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I think that, just like the last four seasons, the oline is the main ingredient. If we have oline play like last night (see the video of Thomas getting shoved back 10 yards, and 4 lineman within 2 yards of Tannehill in the backfield), then we're going to again see short quick passes, and an anemic offense. The oline needs, NEEDS to be able to give Tannehill some sort of pocket to work in. I truly believe that the biggest issue, and it's not even close, is the oline. Get even average play, hell, give me bad play just not horrific play, and I think the offseason would be better, and you'd see more of the intermediate throws. Tannehill just has no time to let the intermediate routes develop.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Vision. He lacks elite vision, or even very good vision. I don't think he processes at a high level. I hope he proves me wrong. Because those things are things are hard to improve or punch through a ceiling.

    Has the protection been shoddy? Absolutely. But how many good olines are in the league? A handful? Most are shoddy. We're not going to have a good oline all the years Tanny can be here. Good QBs stick around for 15+ years. I'd wager you'd have a good oline for a few of those. The rest you will be dealing with crappy olines. That's the nature of the NFL now.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

    res or me have never said he needs a good oline, what we're saying is that if he has a bad oline at least give him some tools to deal with it.

    But no, the Tannehater narrative continues.....
     
  28. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    That's a reasonable assessment. I tend to think Thill needs better than avg oline play to be real successful. He at the very least needs a running game that makes the opposing defense focus on. I think Thill can take us to the playoffs if he can be a piece of the puzzle. Think strong running game with lots of play-action and rollouts. Houston Texans with Foster in his prime type offense. I just don't see Tannehill sitting in shotgun 40 times a game and leading this team to 10+ wins. Hope I'm wrong but so far I agree 100% with Fin-O when he states Thill is rarely the sole reason the Dolphins win or lose.
     
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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I'd just like to see what Tannehill looks like if he has an average oline or an average run game (not in ypc, but not last in the league in attempts), before I jump to the conclusion that he needs better than average. This far we've seen a young, raw, developing QB put up decent stats, while dealing with a terrible oline, and a run game that is used less than pretty much any other team's.

    You guys might all be right, I just don't feel like we've been able to actually see what he's capable of.
     
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  30. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Insane how most of us agree on the entree but can't find middle ground on the appetizers.

    Ryan Tannehill does not suck. Please take note


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The disagreement comes when we all acknowledge that Tannehill is not the problem, but then...

    1. Someone cites win/loss record from the past four seasons
    2. Someone says despite the awful surroundings, Tannehill should have put up better numbers
    3. Someone blames Tannehill not sustaining drives for the defensive performance
    4. Someone blames Tannehill for oline problems (people have claimed, for instance, that he holds the ball too long)
    5. Someone claims he's not a leader because he doesn't yell at teammates
    6. Someone says Tannehill isn't good enough because he's "not clutch" or doesn't have the "IT factor"

    Did I miss any?

    So, basically, we don't agree. If you believe any of the previous to be true, then you believe that Tannehill is negatively affecting the team. You do believe that Tannehill is the problem.
     
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  32. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The derp sherpas really showing people how to derp, world class derping, that is one thing they do well, credit where credit is due.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If you disagree with the post, then disagree with it.
     
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  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Another example. I bet Finster doesn't care what we say either.
     
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  35. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I ignored him and resnor a long long time ago, don't want to waste time with them.
     
  36. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill is just a player on the team, but I think a QB should be a little more.
     
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  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    That's where you take it to the extreme. So if someone agrees with you on all of those but one of the examples you automatically categorize them as calling him "the problem".

    Is that fair to do?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How many people that I've argued with on here about Tannehill only say one of those things?

    Really though, I can disagree with people, that's fine. Where I start to have issues is when people dismiss what I'm saying. I don't dismiss what you, or others, say, but I do give what I believe are alternate reasons, which generally get dismissed as "excuses."

    Apologies if you've felt that I was simply dismissing you posts.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Virtually none of the group we're talking about prescribes to just one from that list. The posters that do, we never really engage.
     
  40. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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