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Shuffling the O-line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolphinGreg, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This morning I watched the 1st preseason game. Since things started poorly, I hopped online to read the game thread knowing the comments would be entertaining. Oh, they were! :yes: And I think the general consensus was right. 'Why the heck was Dallas Thomas starting?!' was the key question. The second was, 'do the Dolphins have any shot to compete (let alone win) if this O-line doesn't get its *** in gear?'

    So I started asking myself, what's Gase thinking here? Surely the front office must've made clear during the interview process that there were certain expectations from the franchise. I would assume they told Gase that the next HC would be charged with evaluating the present QB. I would assume the team probably stressed how much it needed to sort out the defense and how it hoped to see current offensive weapons like Parker, Landry and Ajayi in the mix as features in the offense. But we all can agree that surely the O-line must've been a big point of emphasis from the team. You would assume that even an outsider like Gase understood that before he ever talked with Miami, right?

    So it's only sensible that at several points Gase, Grier and Tannenbaum have had talks about the O-line. I can only assume that Gase is taking an approach in camp that allows every current Dolphin at least some shot at keeping a roster spot. You know you're thin at that position so you want to give everyone a shot, review them critically and save whatever shreds of production you can and then add to that. In short, don't make any moves until you're totally sure.

    Personally, I don't think there's any shot that Laremy Tunsil isn't the LG on opening day. Let's be perfectly clear about that. There's just no way you'd pull in a guy like that and have him sitting, particularly given that you're starving for O-line production. So, I can only imagine the coaches want to give Thomas a shot to earn a back-up role before cutting him. Hence, they played Thomas versus the Giants starters and simultaneously eased Tunsil into his new role with a ton of snaps against the Giants back-ups.

    I get it. You give Thomas a fair shot to prove he's back-up material and you play it cautious at first with Tunsil.

    If that's the case. I totally understand it.


    So, moving forward I think the new coaching staff can officially feel good about saying "we gave Thomas a chance" so I would expect to see him let go, or at least not playing any significant time. I'd expect to see Tunsil moved up in the rotation next week. Assuming all goes well, you'll have Albert, Tunsil, Pouncey and James penciled in as 4/5ths of your lineup. They can all play in weeks 2 and 3 of the preseason in prep for the regular season opener.

    At this point, we've seen Turner at RG. He did show some potential despite the pressure from the Giants DEs stunting. So Turner was given his shot as well. I think he's in the mix to be a starter but nevertheless, I would expect to see someone else starting at RG in week 2. I guess the strategy them would be to select the best RG option based on the tape you've got over the first two games plus practices. Hence you get all 5 starters playing preseason week 3.


    So, that all sounds well and good and probably isn't news, but it does give us a sense of what to expect. The informative stuff will come if we see anything different happen. If Thomas is still in front of Tunsil next week that will be a message that something is wrong. Either Thomas isn't being graded critically or Tunsil isn't coming along as planned. On the upside, if Turner is your starter next week, I would interpret that as he's the guy.

    I think what we see next week will be telling. Since I think Tunsil is a lock, I'm most interested in whether Turner gets any pressure for the RG spot. If Turner starts at RG we should be evaluating him in as much detail as we can.

    We could potentially be seeing our 2016 O-line take the field next week. Exciting stuff!
     
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  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I certainly hope that you're right. That Gase is just proving to the world that Tunsil needs to be in the starting lineup, while showing how terrible Thomas is at the same time. Leave no doubt.

    As long as Dallas Thomas is on the bench this week....
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Yeah, I think you're right. Gase seems clearly to be taking the time necessary to see exactly what he'd got, how they respond and move on from there. He's being patient. Fancy that!

    It can be a little scary for us as fans because of the continuity we have and because we've seen stupid moves made, but there's simply no way around the fact that each new coach needs to do their own evaluation and do things their way. If they're going to stand or fall based on how things go then a coach would be foolish to do things anyone else's way.

    Maybe one of the most encouraging/exciting things about Gase is that he seems true to his word and he has been giving everyone a clean slate, he wants to see things with his own eyes, and he's not ruling anyone or anything out. Looks like he'll try both good and bad characters guys, he'll set no limits except for his own - which remain to be seen. His flexibility is good. Let's see if he can bring it all together.
     
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  4. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, we should be able to at least start reading tea leaves next week. While I was surprised that Thomas started over Tunsil, it's at least understand from the perspective I laid out. Like I said at the end though, two weeks in a row would be worrisome.

    I looked back at the 7 plays by the first team offense and to me, Gase has everything he needs to declare Thomas unfit for duty.

    On the opening play, which is a run behind Thomas, all 4 linemen not named Thomas move forward while Thomas is pushed backwards. In slow motion it's almost beautiful to watch. It's so clear. The run gained 0 yards. If that single play doesn't encapsulate Dallas Thomas I don't know what does. Thomas then proceeded to get pushed back on the 2nd play which basically allowed OV's stunt inside to be that much more successful. Finally 3rd down shows Thomas being completely rag dolled when the DT moves him straight backwards. As an aside, James at RT is also out-matched by JPP.

    The opening drive just highlighted that Thomas isn't strong enough to hold the point of attack during pass protection and certainly not strong enough to push anyone around in the run game. It was an embarrassing showing for an NFL guard but it's a perfect example of what we've all be complaining about. It's so bad that it can't be ignored. We can at least bank on the fact that Gase is going to see it first hand.

    The second drive did more to test (even highlight) Billy Turner who answered the call fairly well. On first down, Miami ran for 6 yards behind Turner and James. In fact, it was probably James not blocking as well as he could at the 2nd level which ended the play (Ajayi eventually ran into James backside). James followed that up with his holding penalty on 2nd down, a stretch play to his side. Of the 5, it was actually James who came out looking like the 2nd worst, right after Thomas.

    As they replayed 2nd down, Miami protected Tannehill well enough for a short pass to Ajayi which appeared to be on target. Of course it was dropped putting the team in a 3rd and long down near their own goal line. 3rd down then saw JPP stunt inside and OV take a wide angle which Albert simply could not handle. The pressure came fast and Tannehill correctly slid away but had no time to find a man.


    Watching the O-line for those 7 plays in detail I'd say that Pouncey and Turner could have solid years. Hopefully Tunsil completes that interior G-C-G trio. On the other hand I think James and Albert are average at best. Albert may struggle with speed and James just isn't that great. He's definitely not a dominant 1st round Tackle. There's no question about that. His run blocking appears to be below average and his pass blocking is solid at best.
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Agreed, if you're going to give Thomas a chance it might as well be the first preseason game, where everything is vanilla and Thill is in for the least amount of time.
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Thomas should've never made it to training camp. He's had more than enough chances to prove he's something other than a human turnstile OG.

    Keeping him is the one questionable decision Gase has made. But yes, if Gase doesn't make that error again it's all fine.. (still should've been obvious)
     
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  7. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Even Omar says that Thomas looks decent in practice, but when the game lights come on Thomas just melts.
     
  8. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    For me it conjured images of Seth Rogan in Step Brothers. Seth is a gym coach interviewing Will Ferrel and damn, I forgot his name, dressed up in tuxedos. Then damn, I forgot his name let's one rip and Seth is like now I'm thinking that this is effed up. Well, Dallas Thomas just let one rip last night...
     
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  9. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    How can we judge everything without Foster and Parker


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How can we judge offensive linemen without Foster and Parker?
     
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  12. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    ...John C Reilly
     
  13. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    I don't suppose I've ever seen a guard, starting or backup, get pushed backwards or ragdolled as much as Thomas. It wasn't excusable in his first two years, but I suppose I entertained the fantasy that maybe it was an experience thing and he'd possibly improved over the off season. Gase has to have seen enough of this guy. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if he wants to motivate Tunsil even further by making him focus and try harder through starting Thomas against next week. I just don't know. He risks getting THill injured the longer he keeps Thomas in.
     
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  14. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    yes thomas messed up on the first play, but it also was against one of the most talented run stuffing DT in the league in Damon Harrison....this can happen.

    with that being said...he obviously needs to go anyways..i just hope the coaching staff is not thinking "well he only got 6 snaps, lets give him a chance to redeem himself next week with the starters"
     
  15. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    because they have to open little holes and give little time to make both players work
     
  16. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    so who is the next man up, assuming Tunsil makes the leap? We may find out at practice today. Miami has two weeks to shuffle this an figure it out
     
  17. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Omar is actually probably right on this one. Dallas Thomas' knowledge of the G position in practice is what is giving him the nod to start in games, where he is not competent. Eventually that knowledge gap will get smaller through practice and I expect to see Tunsil starting sooner than later. Albert said that the line needs an identity and that's not gonna happen with Thomas in there. Thomas poisons the well, the line identity when he is in there is; "We're yellow and easy to beat. If all of us block well there's still a sieve on the left hand side." It's gonna get to the point (if it hasn't already) that teams are going to constantly attack that side of the offensive line. I don't remember the last time our offensive line handled a stunt with relative calmness and success.
     
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  18. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    [video=twitter;764816073329897472]https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/764816073329897472[/video]

    stop the madness
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I wonder if the Dallas Thomas thing is more about Gase motivating Tunsil?
     
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  20. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    that makes some sense, it just better be over with by game 1, only reason to play dallas thomas is of your trying to get the #1 pick.
     
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  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I watched the game yesterday also. What I saw was an OL that had more weaknesses than just Thomas. While I agree that Thomas should not be a starter and likely shouldn't even be in the NFL at this point in his career. I also think Alberts best years are behind him and it appears his multiple injuries are finally catching up to him. I think he will be mediocre at best this year and it won't surprise me if Tunsil doesn't take over the starting LT position before the seasons n is over.

    James started out playing well as a rookie, but he really hasn't shown improvement over the past few years. He is merely an average to below average RT at this time, IMO.

    The RG position is still a huge question mark and only time will tell if Tunsil is able to be an effective guard in the NFL. The assumption is that he will be effective, but as we saw with Pouncey in 2014 when he played guard instead of center. Moving to another position on the OL doesn't always fit the particular skills of even the better offensive line players in the NFL.

    Right now it appears the OL will continue to be an issue for this team throughout this coming season.
     
  22. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Along With Tunsil, you have to figure J.Bushrod is a lock to make the team if healthy. He was Gase's starting LT last year. I do believe the notion that the staff is giving the incumbents ( Thomas & Turner ) a chance to prove their worth. Tunsil and Bushrod are the favorites at guard, but this line will be better, if it can make a player out of Thomas &/or Turner.

    Check out this play by Bushrod ! Don't ask me what Tunsil was doing though.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/FinsInsider/status/764570901434265603/photo/1
     
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  23. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    He's such a "that guy".
     
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  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a real hit and miss movie but damn, Rogan's shift in tone right at the end of that scene is priceless, lol.
     
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  25. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yep, I said the same thing in my second post, so I agree 100%.

    I don't think anyone at this point feels our Tackles are special. Albert's old and coming off of injury while James is average.

    What surprises me is that you so often read that Miami's line has been re-vamped and that it's set to be above-average. I think a lot of outsiders see names like Albert and Pouncey, add in Tunsil and think "that's going to be solid."

    Insiders are going to naturally pump the breaks on that kind of thinking.

    In reality, we know that's not the case. Pouncey is not dominant. Albert's old and coming off injury. Tunsil is a rookie playing out of position. There's nothing "above average" about those things.

    The O-line is a real patchwork right now. I don't think this year's incarnation means anything. Assuming Tunsil is the LT of the future and Pouncey is a franchise guy, you still have question marks at both Guard positions going into the future and a RT who's nothing all that special.

    At this point, I like resnor's attitude though...we just need something solid. Statements like "above average" are ludicrous if you ask me, but things might at least get better than they were under Sparano and Philbin. The bar is set pretty low.
     
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  26. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Now just imagine Turner and Thomas in tuxedos while Gase is interviewing them.

    Gase-"Did you just get walked back to the QB?

    Thomas -"I don't know?"

    Gase-"You did...Can see it with my eyes...kinda light in the pants combined with a backtruffleshuffle...yeah, I'm starting to think your tape from last year is pretty effed up.
     
  27. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    I Completely forgot about 2015 4th round pick Jamil Douglas.... :confused:
     
  28. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    You're a tad bit pessimistic about Albert and James, imo. When healthy they're good. We usually have a pocket when those two are on the field together. The problem is, in 32 games the two have only played together about 10 times I believe. Albert missed half of 2014, James missed half of 2015. We've had ****ty luck with them. And the guy filling in for both of them respectively was Jason Fox.

    Also I dnot remember Albert being hurt last season?

    If they remain healthy, (yes, I know, not likely) I think above average is a possibility
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm pretty sure that when Albert, James & Pouncey play full games together, we're like 7-1 and Thill has over a 100qb rating.
     
  30. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Bro, quit blaming the offensive line for Tannehill sucking amirite? Amirite guys?


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  31. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Tunsil has officially left base camp and is at base camp two splitting reps with Thomas. Smart if you're a mountain climber. You need to acclimate.
     
  32. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    And the game we lost was the Packers game, which we should have won if the defense didn't **** the bed right at the end.
     
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  33. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Here you go again! How dare you. Get em boys !
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Offense had the ball with a chance to close...

    Just sayin.

    *ducks


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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    When the Phins have said combo and Ryan averages a 100qbr the defense allows 15 ppg!

    Defense just needs some help and they are GOLDEN!

    *ducks


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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The 3rd down play you mentioned encapsulates Thomas pretty well too. That was not Snacks or Hankins that walked Thomas back into Ryan like a man being blocked by a child. That was 265 lb DE Owamagbe Odighizuwa. Pathetic is what it was. As far as I am concerned Thomas should be flipping pancakes in an IHOP somewhere. He is the worst starting OL in the history of the Dolphins.
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That why Philo the Clown started him. His MO was start whomever looked best in practice. Never liked him at Tennessee, never liked when we drafted him, and nothing he's done in Miami impresses me in the slightest. He is a soft finesse player with no tenacity or fire in his belly. I generally do not like those kinds of offensive linemen.
     
  38. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Try to stay on topic for once ! & there's no need to *duck, after serving a dead one
     
  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I'm very much on topic. When the OL has those 3 the defense becomes the best in the league. It's science.

    By the way. Randy "Macho Man" Savage is from my hometown....and I'm pretty sure my mom banged him while I was "visiting" my cousins.


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  40. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    And the increased effiency of the QB?? the point that you're blatantly ignoring....you're truly not grasping the "science" of the correlation. I thought You judged Qbs based on wins, now you have excuses for when they do? And what's all this about your mom and Bonersaw? What did you do to your cousins?
     

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