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Ryan Tannehill Tier 3 according to ESPN

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Aug 9, 2016.

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  1. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Yeah.... Reminds me of some other guys who have been on here with nothing but doom and gloom, and constant complaining. I've been through enough ***** sessions on boards in the past 20 years not to need this nonsense erupting just because someone wants to see their angst and frustration on screen. The gist seems to be that the team is failing because of one part. To my thinking, that one part, which is the biggest problem on this team, is the guy who commutes from NY to Palm Beach and drops in to see how his investment is doing, and has about two clues about football - the ball is shaped funny, and it bounces weird. Head coaches like Cam Cameron, Tony Sparano, Joe Philbin, and other equally calamitous leadership has done more to screw things up than anyone on the field.

    Some of you can heap all of the blame on a quarterback (usually because he gets the big bucks and 'runs' the offense) - but it is the system which has failed everyone, including the spectators, employees and the players. If you don't like Tannehill, fine, ***** on. But ignoring the other factors which lead to the results we have seen and just blaming one part which comes with no real power to effect other little things, such as coaching staff or roster seems like really sloppy thinking - at best.

    There are a number of threads on some other boards which will gladly accommodate complaining and moaning, whining and such... But beware, those guys play for blood!
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I gave an answer and a specific one at that.

    You either don't understand that someone can say one thing but do the opposite and vice versa or you're not being honest about it.

    Let's give an example, shall we... do you think I respect you?
     
  3. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Some fans might just think he is part of the problem but not the biggest problem. Or that in order for the team to go where we all want them to go that he needs to be part of the solution and play better. He needs more help no doubt but a stud QB can make up for a lot of less than perfect positions.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    While I agree somewhat with that, where I find myself disagreeing is the idea that Tannehill specifically, should have somehow done more. It's not like these debates started last week, they started really during his rookie season. So, I don't believe that many of the people arguing with me are being honest or sincere in their arguments. We drafted a raw QB, based on potential, and then screwed him over both with surrounding talent, and awful coaching. Then fans run around complaining that Tannehill isn't good enough.

    The biggest travesty with Tannehill might end up being that we had a legit QB, and ruined him because the team and leadership was bad. I mean, he's in his fifth year, and for instance, the oline looked to be every bit as bad as it was his rookie year. I simply can't fathom that.
     
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  5. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    The oline dang sure needs to improve. That's not even up for debate. I wasn't high on Thill coming out of A&M, I watched A LOT of his games. I watched his team blow a ton of leads. I watched him come up small in big spots on a pretty talented team in college. He had a ton of drops 1 year and his defense gave up a ton of points but that was par for the course in the Big 12. I was pleasantly surprised by Tannehill his first 2 seasons in the NFL. I thought we had something real good on our hands. I've already stated I like his physical skills, I still do. He has everything you would look for physically. He's improved in a lot of areas but I tend to think and am concerned that he's peaked. QBs typically don't drastically improve at his age and experience. You can no longer use the term raw or a project after 4 years. I'm honestly torn on Tannehill. On one hand you could do a heck of a lot worse and the Dolphins have done way worse for many years which is why I think Tannehill gets over-rated by a few posters on this board. Maybe more than a few. They're so used to the scrubs that came before him that he looks like a franchise guy. Tannehill is good enough to win with but he seems to need more help than you'd like in a perfect world. If he were still on his rookie contract then there's no question you keep Tannehill and see what happens. My position right now is if Tannehill doesn't improve over last year, not drastically but at least incrementally then he isn't worth paying the kind of money he will be making. That type of money is reserved for difference makers. Playmakers. Guys who are the difference between winning and losing. If one thing is clear in the Tannehill debate, its that Tannehill isn't good enough on his own to raise the level of those around him. He isn't turning chicken **** into chicken salad and that's ok. He does have SOME talent around him. The oline SHOULD be improved this year. Thank you to whoever sent out Tunsils marijuana pic! I'm pulling for Thill. Nobody WANTS to start all over at QB.
     
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  6. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Resnor isn't unreasonable. The other guy...umm yeah that was a good call on your part.
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're first post to me int his thread:

    Jesus, you people.
     
  8. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    You people lol...lumping everyone who disagrees with you together is just lazy. I have no reason to put you on ignore. I don't put anyone on ignore. Goes back to nothing on a message board is going to bother me enough to make me ignore someone. I thoroughly enjoy pummeling you in discussions. All the counter arguments you've made in the Tannehill conversation has nothing to do with me because I've never made those arguments. I've never blamed just Tannehill or even mostly Tannehill. Never used Wins and Losses to bash Tannehill, never said Tannehill sucked Etc Etc...I've made my stance on Tannehill clear. Thanks for the dialogue little buddy. I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way. I need to remember that "you people" as some would say are more sensitive than I am.
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Just a thought, Big, but when you approach things with Fin the way you are, he's going to lump you in with others who do the same. You and I are seeming to have a decent discussion going, and I think if you just approached him differently, you wouldn't have this level of disagreement.

    But, you might not care. LOL. And that's fine, I guess.
     
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  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You keep saying it doesn't bother you, yet your first post in this thread to me was full of insults for literally no reason.

    Your insult ridden diatribe was not the work of an unbothered person. Again, you say one thing and do the opposite.

    I was talking about the topic of the thread and you were so "not" bothered you came in and insulted me. I've tried to get you back on topic without insulting me and you are so "not" bothered you simply cannot do it.

    Maybe you should take res' advice....
     
  11. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Been there, done that, any type of conversing with you guys ends up the same way, you twisting words that others say, then it is having to go back and say "I never said that", having to quote the posts and whatnot, saying he needs to get better in certain things, then you say "Tannehater" and whatnot.

    It's a total and complete exercise in futility, unless you're playing kick the can, and I do get some enjoyment out of watching some of that.

    It's good for a laugh sometimes, but yeah, your right.

    My grandmother had a saying she said all the time, you make your bed, and you lay in it.

    Maybe if you guys were less hostile, and less intolerant of others opinions things would change, it's only a sport, and we're fans of the same team.
     
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  12. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    How many games do you realistically expect a team to win with a raw QB? You admit he's raw, or not as good as he could be but you still expect the team to look great despite that? For me, with a raw QB the team looked exactly as I expected a team with a raw QB would look. Replace the raw QB with a great QB and the team would probably look decent to good. You and others seem to be of the impression that the team would look like dog **** even with Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning back there. I don't buy that.

    We were top ten in scoring D his first two seasons, in fact, we were the only team to miss the playoffs both years with a top ten scoring D, which probably had a lot to do with said raw QB. Fine. I believe last season every team with a top ten scoring D went to the playoffs. And then in 2014 we had the only offense ranked in the top 8 without an elite QB. The running element of that offense was ranked second to Seattle.

    So spare me this "everything was garbage around Tannehill" rhetoric.
     
  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Thats a GAWDDAMN great idea!
     
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  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol. I see. You guys can be as hostile and douchey as you want but we have to take it else we're the problem?
     
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  15. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think it'd matter how I approached him. I can more or less guess what 80% of his post is going to be about before he even posts it. Even tho I may not agree 100% with you I can have a discussion because you're reasonable. I may be wrong but I've yet to see him show any reason with anybody. He gets along with you and Shane Falco and that's about it. His victim role is incredibly pathetic to me. Just my opinion. I appreciate the good convo res. Hopefully we have many more this season, only let's discuss how great the Fins are doing (hopefully).
     
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  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again, you blew in here being the douche bag. But somehow, I'm the one that causes it.

    You're effing delusional.

    But what exactly about my stance is so crazy that you have to act like that? i'm curious....
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, you've been hostile and intolerant since you started posting consistently here.

    While you're looking in your crystal ball, how about finding out the lotto numbers. It's pretty douchey to refuse to discuss the post, choosing instead to insult and be condescending.

    Perhaps you should take your own advice.
     
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  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Tom Brady?
     
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  19. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    :up:
     
  20. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Which stance are you referring to?
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Pick one you apparently know what I'm going to say before I say it
     
  22. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Na ive seen Brady take a bad defense and average running backs to playoffs and even a super bowl. But nice try
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Roy is on my ignore, but since you quoted him I'll respond to what I just saw...

    No, I DIDN'T expect the team to look great, but apparently those pointing to wins and losses did. However Tannehill being young and raw had zero to do with lineman whiffing on blocks and getting pushed back 5-10 yards, receivers running bad routes and dropping balls, and the run game being underutilized.

    Those are things beyond Tannehill's control, and are factors that severely impacted the offense's ability to operate and be productive. These are things that get ignored by the group that likes to bag on Tannehill constantly around here.
     
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  24. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever seen Cam Wake play? If you did you would know lots of linemen whiff on blocks every week. Or does he only go up against poor o-linemen? Would you concede that its at least possible that a raw QB could make his o-line look bad by doing things that raw QBs do?
     
  25. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Only with you derpas, and just returning fire is all, I wasn't hostile with you until you started in with the insults, or don't you remember that? You guys initiated it back when, and don't let up, so you get out of it, what you put into it.

    You do realize you guys have attempted insults to any who disagree in your avatars, lol, you can't make this **** up, every post you make is an attempted insult to anyone who disagrees, I can't help but laugh at it.

    There are plenty of posters on this site I disagree with, yet we don't get hostile with each other, it's you guys who basically call everyone idiots who don't agree with your opinions, and they are just opinions, which truthfully, I think you guys forget, and you think your opinions are facts.
     
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  26. Life_is_precious

    Life_is_precious Banned

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    No. The only game would be the Denver Broncos game. If he had more games like that and put up 36 points then even with a losing record I wouldn't hold him accountable. If that were the case then your argument he needs a better supporting cast would actually hold weight.

    That Detroit Lions the team only scored 10 or 13 points. And the ONLY touchdown they had was after that blocked punt that Dion Jordan picked up and ran it back all the way to the 10 yard line. So Tannehill and the Dolphins offense on their only touchdown of the game only had to go down field for......10 yards. The defense only gave up 16 points. When you don't score and aren't moving the ball you are just putting your defense in bad situations. And anytime your defense only gives up 16 points and you lose then as an offense that is on you. That game they hardly moved the ball and kept giving the ball back to the Lions. And their only touchdown was off a blocked punt. So how did Tannehill and the offense get them the lead? lmao their 10 yard scoring drive and 2 field goals got them the game huh? Tannehill and the offense didn't do squat. They were only in that game because of the defense.

    Carolina game. Again the offense didn't score much and kept giving the ball back to Carolina. It was 16-10 lead for the longest time. Another low scoring game but its Tannehill and the offense that got us the lead? Really? And twice that game Tannehill missed Wallace on a deep throw that would have been a TD. I remember that game. You miss opportunities like that and keep punting the ball you're playing with poison.

    Someone said the Green Bay game too. But that is incorrect. The defense gave Rodgers and that offense fits all day. They had the lead 24-20 and it was one of the toughest games the Green Bay offense had all year. A couple of the Dolphins scores on offense was off of turnovers by the defense too. The offense then played really conservative that whole 4th quarter and kept giving the ball back to Rodgers. You can blame more of that on conservative Philbin but still if you're Tannehill and the offense you can't keep giving the ball back to Rodgers and have your defense out on the field the entire 4th quarter. You hold Rodgers and Green Bay to 20 points that should be a win. Get a couple more first downs and that game is over. Rodgers and Green Bay is held to 20 points. I knew when they gave Rodgers the ball back with 2 minutes left that was game.

    In none of those games except the Denver game did the offense do well. They didn't put up points. They only had the lead because of the defense. Tannehill's only career game where he put the game on his back is that Denver game. Those are more games I would like to see. Where he takes matters into his own hands and improves the team. Not needing the team to improve him. A franchise quarterback makes their team better. Not the other way around. Thats why your arguments don't hold up. All his short comings are everyone else's fault. Your argument is he needs a better team to show everyone he is elite. When elite quarterbacks regardless of the situation and still elite.

    Aside from the Denver game if these are Tannehill's best games and the games he supposedly had the game won for the team then that is the definition of mediocre. In none of those games was he taking over the game and putting up points. Everyone one of those games the defense was the reason they were even winning.
     
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  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Oh boy another one.

    Its funny you skipped over the part where that poster appeared int he thread just to insult me for literally no reason.

    On this forum, before you talk about the deep ball, you have to declare if the deep ball is 20+ yards like every stat keeper, pundit, analyst, and football related website, says it is or if you subscribe to the "deep ball" is 40+ yrds certain people of this board declared it to be so they can continue to paint a certain QB in a negative light.

    Once we figure that out, then I'll point out that the fastet guys in the NFL run the 40 in 4.2 range...in underwear....without being jammed or covered. Then I'm going to ask you think if Thill has even 4.2 seconds to wait let alone the probably 5 or more in real game conditions before throwing a 40+ yard pass?

    I misrepresented nothing, nor have I had conversation with you. What you're walking into is a years long argument. Also your first 3 posts to me included numerous insults. Do you understand you attacked me?

    Now, there's the matter of are you a previously banned poster coming back or are bignasty and you created a second account just to eff with me? I ask because both of you seem to have the same problem quoting posts.
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know I would never come into a forum as a newbie and make statements/call names like this about any of the members, no matter how much I disagreed with them..
     
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  29. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Thing is you could be a member 5 minutes and be able to accurately asses certain posters. They can ban everyone he argues with u too the cows come home, but nothing will change overall until the root of the problem does.

    Not to mention a certain "new" member of the sheepa sheepa came out of the gates acting way worse. And it went by the waist side.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  30. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What's deep to stretch the field? How many yards?

    And yes.. Tom Brady is a dink and dunk QB. How do you think they kept him off of life support last season? If they weren't dink and dunk, he would be on a waiting list for a new internal organ of some sort
     
  31. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    tom brady is a dink and dunk qb
     
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  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I made a post. It insulted no one.

    Then I got attacked. Then a group of the same posters jumped in to the insult slinging.

    I've even tried a number of times to get this topic back on track....but the same posters can simply not stop attacking me.

    Then they all, to a man, deny I bother them.

    This situation is insane.

    Anyway, back to the topic (again), Thill's circumstances have caused his performance to fall into a tier 3 level (for the completely silly and wrongheaded grading requirements the scale in the article in the OP offered). If the line still sucks, BUT Thill can audible and we run the ball, we'll be ok on offense. Thill needs to do a better job being the leader by keeping guys focused and the pace uptempo.

    Thill has in fact played like a Top 10 QB in the league for stretches where his oline has least Albert, Pouncey and James starting. That is fact. It is fact by rating, numbers, wins and losses, cutch, it factor or whatever the hell criteria people want to use and then name the most important QB trait evaaaaaaahhhhhh.

    We ran the ball the fewest amount of times in the league last year. Everyone that says the coaches assessed Thill to be a lost cause (by taking away his audible powers for some imagined flaw instead of it being Lazor's ego or because they wanted Derek Carr or whatever new reason comes up) still have to explain why they never ran the ball and kept throwing with the guy they didn't want or think was good.

    Then last but not least, still people expect Thill to thrive with a **** oline, but being handcuffed with not running the ball and not being allowed to audible.....when its never happened ever.
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Of course, you're the victim.

    You can say what you want, I don't go around insulting people. You showed up on here, and started throwing around the same tired arguments, and refused to discuss why they might be wrong. You were condescending and arrogant. That's what drew responses from me. I kinda doubt I was actually insulting you, on a consistent basis, as that's not what I do on here.
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    How many times do you need to hear it.

    Foles had a higher sack%
    Foles team ran the ball about as much as Miami
    If you take away Michael Vicks, they rushed for like 150 more yards.
    They had similar handcuffs at LOS.

    It's been done. Wtf


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  35. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    and how does someone brag on a QB that only has 3 good games out of 16?
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Nick Foles is not a successful QB. You're being extremely disingenuous.
     
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  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Mains should be shutdown.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  38. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    We're in a rouch patch. I think that things will get better once we have more to talk about. I have added more and more people to my ignore list lately though. Some of these threads are funny because of that. Six or seven posts in a row that are hidden :lol:
     
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  39. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and even in the Denver game when given the same opportunity Rodgers had against us in the final minutes of the game down by 4 he threw an interception.
     
  40. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    No but he had a successful season under similar circumstances. He is not better than Ryan by any means, but it's a silly argument for many reasons.

    Hell, you could say Ryan thrived in 2014 under those circumstances.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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