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Things Being Overlooked Immediately After The Seahawks Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wrong.

    The team isn't successful. Tannehill play SHOULD HAVE given him 17-28, 260 yards, 1 passing td and 1 rushing td, and a 102 rating.

    That's not playing successfully?
     
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  2. seekerone

    seekerone Member

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    I'm interested to see if Stills can overcome the recent case of the dropsies. Dolphins won't be what they should without that hookup.
     
  3. RealDolphinsFan

    RealDolphinsFan Banned

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    Sadly though many people don't care about the truth unless it fits their agenda. At least some Dolphins fans get it, truth is though we really have a lousy fan base as a whole with a lot of incredibly stupid fans.
     
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  4. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    You see winning QB's on the sideline making sure the tem knows what's at stake. Not laughing.
    We do have a different fan base, but you just co-signed on a post that said the OBs play SHOULD HAVE given him 17-28, 260 yards, 1 passing td and 1 rushing td, and a 102 rating. He got the real rating fit with what he really did...not what he should have did. It's a team game and one of his team mates let him down by dropping that pass. When the leader is laughing it off, maybe the other players laugh things off like drops too. It sets the tone for the team. If it's not a big deal for our leader, it's not a big deal. I'm willing to bet it would have been a bid deal for a top tier QB.
     
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  5. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. He's 7 games under .500 for his career. Thats just to be at .500, nothing special--that wouldn't even begin to qualify for the playoffs. He may be the best QB we have, or the best we can do. I don't care if he is the QB or not. I don't have an "agenda" to get rid of him. I just know that most teams don't keep QBs around if they aren't winning. He's not winning.

    But, Sunday is a new day. He has the opportunity to expunge all of his past sins (and the teams) starting on Sunday. I guarantee if he plays well and leads the team to victory, this week, and enough to get us to the playoffs, all will be forgotten. If he does not, I don't think he's long for Miami. I could be wrong. Probably am.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, Gunn, that's the point. Tannehill MADE THE PLAY, Stills choked, and it severely negatively impacted Tannehill.

    Redwine, the TEAM is 7 games under .500, unless you believe Tannehill is solely responsible for wins and losses. Tannehill played well enough for the win on Sunday, but other players did not, and they lost.
     
  7. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Play overlooked:

    Seattle ball, 2nd and 11, at their own 6 yard line; about a minute and thirty-two seconds left in the first half.

    Predictably, they call something conservative, an inside run, and they gained 10 yards. If they gain less than five there, they probably go conservative on third down inside their 10 yard line, and the Dolphins actually could have a minute left in the half to try and get a field goal.

    Instead, the Seahawks get the ten yards there, and on the next play hit Baldwin in the flat for the easy first down. That opens up their offense, and instead of the Dolphins being tied, or perhaps having a halftime lead, the Seahawks march down against basically a prevent defense and kick a go-ahead FG.

    That put them up three in a game lost by two.

    To me, and I don't blame anybody, you have to guard against big plays in that situation, but that 2nd down turned out to be key (and overlooked) in the Seahawks win.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    But Tannehill didn't make the play. It was an incompletion...just like a dropped screen pass would be. And as bad as you or I would want to claim otherwise, it was an incomplete pass that does not count.

    Also, I'm on your side here but I'm going to make an argument for the opposition anyway. If you break down the ENTIRE FIRST HALF, there were between 8-10 defenders playing zone within 5-8 yards of the line of scrimmage on every snap. Teams dare Tannehill to go deep and they allow him the dump offs because they're sitting there waiting for it. That's why Landry was getting slaughtered as soon as he touched the ball...that's how you stop a dink and donk offense and they played it well.

    So that one play to Stills wasn't a freak-accident that sprung him loose....that throw was there on almost every single play. Even in the 4th quarter in a prevent defense with seconds remaining, Stills beat the coverage and had a clear path to the endzone if the pass was there (and he actually caught it). What I'm saying is you can't point to one play as proof of something when we easily could have ran that play all over again for the identical result (and possibly an actual catch/TD). For whatever reason though, Tannehill did not launch the bomb again until the game was already over.

    Make no mistake, that's the only way you're going to get a team to back more than 3 men out of the box. Until you actually burn them, they're going to sit in their short zone all day long and make those easy stops. We will see that exact coverage 15 more times this year because New England made the blueprint for it last season, and every single one of our opponents have followed suit after our couple of blowout wins.

    So we can hope for one thing moving forward....Gase giving the green light on slinging the rock a lot more often. We need to run that exact same play an additional 3-5 times per game to keep defenses honest and to open up the field for Landry, the run game, etc.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes, Thill did make the play. Stills did not. Thill threw it exactly where he was supposed to with right amount of speed arc and accuracy. You cannot blame a QB for a drop and you cannot blame a WR for a poorly thrown ball. It takes two people to complete a pass.
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How can you argue that Tannehill didn't make the play? He did. He saw Stills, and threw a perfect pass. That's all he can do.

    I don't believe that Stills was open like that on every play.
     
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  11. Harleydude666

    Harleydude666 Active Member

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    I don't know how else to describe it other than this team has a totally different feel than the last few years. All I saw were positives in the game. Don't get me wrong, when the game was there for the taking and ended up losing I was crushed. However this team competed for four quarters. I'd rather watch this team play that lost Sunday than the Dolphin team last year that beat the Redskins. You can tell the new coaching element just trying to bleed through last Sunday .
     
  12. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I disagree as well. Thill made the play Stills did not. But I agree with just about everything else. When and if Tannehill/Gase starts pushing the ball down field more EVERYONE will be sitting on the short routes AND clogging up the running lanes. Only when defenses respect the threat of deeper routes will they back off.
     
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  13. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I was saying earlier I feel a heck of a lot better about the team after this loss than I did after our win last year in Washington.
     
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  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    One criticism of Tannehill is that he waits until a man is already wide open visually before feeling comfortable throwing him the ball, and that he doesn't throw earlier... as a result many opportunities are lost because he looks through his progression and the guy who WILL be open momentarily is not yet VIUSUALLY far from the defender so Tannehill rejects the opportunity as "NOT OPEN" when to most elite QBs they can see that the receiver IS already beating his man/the covverage.

    In the NFL a guy is open when he has position, or acceleration or angle on the defender EVEN IF the defender is still close by at that moment.

    Tannehill either doesn't forecast this very well, or he feels unsure and unsafe throwing the ball until it's is ABUNDANTLY clear that his man is VERY open.

    This mainly happens down the field (deep). On line-of-sight throws inside 15 yards Tanny seems comfortable lasering the ball into tighter spaces. That said, an article about the Seahawks game did point out an instance of Tannehill waiting too long to throw a short pass to Foster which then led to him being immediately tackled instead of being able to score a TD.

    Coaches around Tanny want him to speed up his process. I think part of that hesitation is he really is not comfortable thinking a guy is open until the guy is WAY open, but in the NFL that often means you've missed your timing window to get the ball there effectively.

    This may be why he threw such a nice ball into Stills... because he was SO open that Ryan gladly pulled the trigger... but on the other throws to Kenny he was off because there was coverage a little closer and so he tried to place the ball away from the coverage.

    Bottom line, I hope Marino gets Tannehill to just "Fire and Forget".
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I agree, Bpk, and you know what sucks? The receiver dropping a gimme pass doesn't make him anymore comfortable throwing the pass earlier, trusting that the receiver will be there to make the catch or break it up of necessary.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Also, I disagree, a bit, on the deeper routes being necessary to loosen the defense. What we NEED is the intermediate routes. Gase wants ball control offense, like the Patriots, but they excel at the 10-15 yard pass, and using the tight end. Like I said in another thread, we need Cameron going up the seam, and running corner routes, and we need Landry running slants and posts over the middle. Think about how Landry would be used in NE. He'd be used like Welker or Edelman or Amendola, not used like Faulk, the way he is here. We should be using Grant or Foster or Drake like a Faulk.

    Those intermediate throws are also throws that Tannehill excels at. It's one of the things that stands out the most to me watching other teams play, is the abundance of those throws as compared to us.
     
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  17. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Jay Fielder had a winning record as a QB, would you rather have him? Personally i'd rather just have the defense Fielder had, along with Ricky Williams.
     
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  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    WR drop passes.

    Tannehill also missed receivers later in the game. So he could have gotten great stats, notwithstanding the Stills drop, but he didn't.
     
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  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Someone we trust quite a bit reviewed the film. Stills was open like that on several other plays and Tanny missed him. Who knows, Maybe stills drops them again. But he doesn't have a history of drops. Stills made a horrendous mistake in that drop. Tanny also missed a few opportunities (2-3) to win the game later on.

    The blame game can be played all day. At the end of it, we're still 0-1. Nobody played well on offense.
     
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  20. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Do you know of any sites that post cut ups to the games. I have been viewing some at:

    https://thedeependmiami.com/

    and

    https://twitter.com/Cianaf

    Just curious if you know of others.
     
  21. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    The problem wasn't really the one blown play (teams narrowly miss big plays all the time). The problem is that it was the ONLY play. We stopped pushing the ball downfield, stopped doing the things that created that opportunity. This conservative mindset is a big reason why this team has so little margin for error, and it makes fans feel justified in going batsh-t over a single snap from early in the game.

    Look at Tampa's first half from Sunday. Winston came out in the 1Q and missed two WIDE OPEN deep touchdowns, with a particularly bad overthrow to Mike Evans who had burned Desmond Trufant. Should've had at least one easy score. But this stuff happens, and he kept coming, kept attacking...ended up throwing 4 TDs, two of which came on deep over-the-top throws that were absolute dimes against solid coverage. And they missed some more too.

    The way the Dolphins minimize those types of chances is the issue. We get a flash of aggressive attitude and explosive potential...and then it disappears. I don't know if this is more playcalling or the QB's decision making, but the offense fell back into the horizontal low-risk stuff that has defined this team for the last four years. Your margin for error is just so small when you seldom attack or attempt to make big game-changing plays...when you keep choosing to throw the ball sideways and dump it down in front of the LBs.
     
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  22. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I don't get to make the decision. Who was the QB the last time we won a playoff game? Thats what I want...a QB that wins playoff games. If thats RT, then GREAT NEWS. We have 15 games left...we can probably only afford to lose five more. No time like Sunday for RT to silence his critics. If he wins, and keeps winning, "he" wont be an issue. If we don't, I dont care how well he "plays"...he won't silence the drumbeat of those to replace him.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm sure he was open later. I disagreed with Stills being open deep like that "on every play." I'm sure if you look at other teams you'll see plays with guys open that other QBs miss too.

    The only reason I keep bringing up the Stills play is because Tannehill made the play, but it failed. So, for people who complain that he doesn't make plays, it's a perfect example of what has plagued him all along.
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, you do or do not believe that QBs are solely responsible for wins and losses?
     
  25. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Phins Up Wins Up? I think it is.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Your post needs to be sticky'd. The phenomena is what I refer to as the "Turtle Effect".

    Many of our fans cling to some of those isolated plays instead of the idea that the Dolphins as a team need to be more proactive in creating opportunity for more of them. In fact, I've read in multiple places that Stills was open deep a few times vs. Seattle. Doesn't excuse his drop, but they need to take more than one shot.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    They took at least two shots deep to Stills.

    Nonetheless, the intermediate game was nonexistent, and we absolutely need that to effective. Not sure why more people aren't talking about that.
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    talked about it right after the game when I criticized the offense and tannehill, what's your take on it?
     
  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The reason the offense looked pretty much the same, is QB17, not the play calling, it's him choosing to take the safe road, and that's been a problem for a while, remember Philbin saying to him "just rip it", QB17 doesn't have that "killer" mentality, he's afraid of making mistakes, so it's easier to just take safe and short.

    This HAS TO change if he's going to take the next step imo.
     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say he was open every play....I said that the route was there all day long. Stills was never once double teamed and the corner was not getting any deep help over the middle, so the post route was wide open any time we decided to call it. And Kenny is just too darn fast; he was open over and over again when that was his route.

    And I'm not arguing that Tannehill didn't make the play. It was a great throw....possibly even perfect. The play only counts though if someone catches it.

    Does that mean I didn't jump out of my chair and scream at the TV when Stills dropped it? Nope, I was *****ing about it the rest of the day. But you see a throw like that and a guy that open...then you see the defense making absolutely no adjustment at all...and you have to ask why. Why didn't it scare Seattle? It's because nobody around the league thinks that Tannehill can see the deep man and make that throw consistently. And until he does it, we are going to keep facing the same look week after week.

    Now, there is a silver lining there as well...if Tannehill can start seeing and throwing those 20+ yard shots accurately, then we are going to blow a few teams out of the water over the next several weeks. He would probably become a top-5 passer in the league overnight and we'd get back to Landry making defenses look stupid again, just because we have so many different types of weapons all over the field. So I'm rooting with ya Resor....release the beast in Tannehill and let em rip.
     
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  31. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm sure it had nothing to do with playing Seattle, with a very good defense , in a hostile place...or Gase being a bit conservative with a new offense vs a non divisional foe..or a crucial couple of passes that could have been caught....or Tannehill just not having a great game. Nah, it probably makes sense that RT does not have a "killer" instinct. Yep, that makes much more sense. That was easy.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    On the intermediate game? I'm befuddled, to be honest. I don't get trying all this short stuff to Landry. He should be running routes like Welker and Amendoza. I can't remember the last time they threw a slant pattern. It's like our offense completely abandons the middle of the field.

    IF it's a case of Tannehill not throwing those passes, then that's an issue.
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sounded like that's what was being said.
     
  34. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    This issue is becoming more prevalent around the League, imo, especially with these QBs who come from spread offenses. Those kids are accustomed to having 4/5 guys lined up wide or in the slot and attacking the best 1-on-1 matchup. Reads are a little easier and quicker. Tannehill is good at all that because of his quick release, accuracy, and velocity. Things are messier manipulating the middle and RT doesn't appear to want to take as many chances there, even though it's the quickest way to move downfield. I'd love to see Tannehill work the middle between/behind the LBs more often, with anticipation. Landry is smart and strong enough to be solid in those areas, imo. Too often they insist on using him like a running back.

    The Phins issue isn't necessarily the lack of HUGE gains; it's just a matter of decreasing the number of super short patterns. Ideally this results in more big plays, yes, but it's moreso about increasing the average depth of target, consistently threatening beyond 7 yards or whatever.
     
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  35. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Of course they are not "soley responsible". I would assume that is axiomatic. They are, however, judged by W/L. Russell Wilson was judged on Sunday as "leading" his team to victory. They only scored 13 points, and he "led" them to victory. The announcers were saying how it was "Wilson Time" at the end. Carson Wentz was on all the post game shows explaining how he "led" the team to victory. Same with Eli Manning, and he played worse than Tannehill. See how that works?

    The QB gets judged by the team performance. How many NFL post game interviews did you see with Tannehill by national media saying, "We are here with Ryan Tannehill, whose team only lost by a couple of points. How'd you do it, Ryan?" Of course not. Tannehill loses more than he wins, no one cares what is QB rating is.

    But there is good news. There is a game Sunday. Win that, and everyone shuts up about him. Lose that, and its going to be, "this guys is 8 games under .500" and someone in the organization is going to be focused on finding a QB than "get the job of winning done".

    This is just how it is. You may like it, you may not. You be okay with me pointing it out, you may not. You may agree, you may not. But it is the truth. You may not change what is true. Sorry bro.
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, you'd agree that sports media is largely garbage, and don't actually know what they're talking about?

    Frankly, I'm not talking to ESPN on here. I'm not interested in their shallow look at games. I'm talking to people who actually watch the games were talking about.

    You were talking about Tannehill winning, and winning playoff games. Yet you just admitted that it takes more than Tannehill to win games. You can be hypocritical if you want. Just stop telling me to accept something as truth, just because some blowhard on TV says it.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The argument you're having can be broken down like this:

    -resnor: its wrong to judge a QB for wins and losses, as this is a team game and the QB can do everything he is capable of and the team still lose.
    -you: everyone judges QBs on wins.
    -resnor: right, but its wrong.
    -you: everyone judges QBs on wins.
    - resnor: I understand, but its wrong, here's why again.
    -you: everyone judges QBs on wins.

    All you're doing is furthering the notion that everyone judges QBs on wins as if people here don't know that happens.
     
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  38. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Ok. If that's right, then we agree. If the Fins don't start winning, rightly or wrongly, RT is going to pay with his job. Beat NE on Sunday--that's all that has to happen for the heat to get turned down.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He beat Seattle.
     
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  40. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Whaaaaaaaa?
     

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