Henne very well could be Beck's backup. If it works out that way, so be it. The best player should play. You just get the feeling, from the reports in camp, and esp from seeing them play last week that Henne seems to be, at this point, a better QB. But if hes not, by all means, make Beck the starter and keep Henne around as the backup.
Wouldn't be the first time it's happened. Actually, it's happened very often with many different teams.
That is very true. Unless I see a lot more than what I saw last Saturday night, Henne is for sure the future of the Dolphins, and CP the caretaker until that time.
Anyone want to bring up CamRam's draft at this point? Their first two picks are looking mighty shaky right now.
Yes, draft classes are always accurately evaluated as the rooks lengthy experience enters into the long tenurre of their second seasons. I'll never argue that Cameron was a good coach. However, I don't believe Mueller is a bad GM. Regardless, this post was brought up in answer to a post on the damage that the Wannstedt era achieved. Even if the RamCam crew was putrid, it's irrelevant compared to Wanny's tenure. These guys had one and only one year. Wanny's tenure not only wasted a team laden with talent on one side of the ball but also bottomed the franchise out after a long tenure of failed draft and personnel moves. NO COMPARISON!
Thanks for the mid day chuckle! I don't think Ginn is looking mighty shaky at all, heck I don't think he looks the least bit shakey. His route running, separation, and catching of the ball all seems to have improved at the normal, dare I say ahead, of schedule. Beck is still on the team and I don't think the #2 spot has been decided by any stretch of the imagination. Even if Beck becomes the #2/#3 guy behind Henne (after Chad) at some point, a solid back up QB, while not ideally going to be a second round pick, is not to be underestimated.
Not debating Wanny's era as coach/gm, it was obviously awful. Mueller is a good talent evaluator, but I'm not sure he's a great GM. Forgetting about the players invovled, I think the way they conducted the topf of that draft was boneheaded on so many levels. Not to mention the complete lack of foresight, or the willful blindness, to the fact the defense was collapsing. I just don't agree with the philosophy they used at the top of that draft. I guarantee you virtually no other GM would have conducted it that way.
Yes like what the government has been trying to get us all ready for UFO's and well you know my Mammma was taking right away by one of them things. She can only talk to us via the TV. So every Monday my family, we all gather around and talk to Mammma on the TV.I miss her, but i guess the good news is i'm going to have a lil brother soon...........
Well the defense had just come off a season in which they ranked #4 overall, they were counting on young players (Roth, Crowder, etc) to step up and contribute and they added Porter. They felt, as did so many of us, that the D was just fine. The focus going into last years draft was offense, offense, offense and Cam/Randy saw Ginn as an immediate improvement for both our offense and ST's. Cam and Randy weren't all that thrilled with the media hype that followed Quinn around and had they selected him he would have sat for the year (at least) behind Green, who I feel they wanted all along. Ginn, in their eyes, could step in and contribute immediately and his speed would help the passing game and open up the running attack by keeping defenses honest. So yes the defense collapsed, but who could have forseen that type of collapse after they played so well the year before, brought in Porter and had young players waiting in the wings? The only reason Cam was brought here was to improve the O, expecting them to focus on the D at that point is the product of hindsight. If they had drafted heavily on the defensive side of the ball they would have been lynched even more than they already were.
Fair enough, but it still showed a lack of vision. Everybody knew that Zach wouldn't be around forever and that our secondary was suspect.
But is that the right way to build a team? If you need help offensively right away, you will be hard pressed to get it through the draft. As everyone here likes to say, it takes 3-years to develop. And while many did not see the defense collapsing, I do recall posting a thread stating that the defense would regress without Saban. Definitely not to the lows that it did, but it was obvious we wouldn't have a top-ten defense again. And if there is anyone who should foresee it, it should be the team's GM and coach. Thats why they get paid 7 figures.
unless the coaching staff feels there is no upside in Beck to make them feel he's worth keeping. McCown at least is a vet who's been through the wars. If McCown is kept and Beck is cut, that's the most likely thinking behind the move
I always thought the Parcells regime was keeping Beck around mainly to gauge his possibilities and if Beck is gone it's likely they don't see any or don't see enough to warrant kicking out someone they brought in.
You absolutely build through the draft, trying to build a team through FA is a good way to lose your cap space and find yourself without a solid foundation. You absolutely need to find and develop through the draft or else you end up like the Phins with only 2 draft picks remaining from 5 straight draft classes and a 1-15 team. To use the example of "it takes 3 years to develop" in this case is kind of misleading. Yes it generally takes a player roughly 3 years to reach his potential, but that doesn't mean that said player can't or won't be able to contribute. Player position also needs to be taken into account, a support player like a WR isn't as important to an overall offense as a QB. So while a QB might need to learn from the bench for a year, a WR would be able to contribute during his first year and in Ginn's case on ST's as well. To whom? There were very few voices, very few, that felt that the defense was going to be a major concern. Criticism of the defense almost always started and ended with the issue of age, which is why Cam and Randy were allowing guys like Roth and Crowder to step up and assume a bigger role. The main focus last year was to fix the offense, it was stated by the FO and echoed by the fans and the media. And your thread about the defense taking a step back was about how the defense would suffer with the loss of Saban and not about the players themselves. So I don't know why you would bring it up in this case.
But if McCown who has 7 years of NFL experience couldn't put any space between himself and 2 inexperienced QB's, what does that say about him as a player and why would he be the one who is retained?
Because the defense was what it was in 06 because of Saban, not the players. Its the front office's job to evaluate the team honestly. And honestly, we didn't have a lot of talent on defense, and what we did have was pretty old. We needed a serious injection of youth on both offense AND defense. The front office focused almost entirely on drafting offensive players. If that is their strategy, then fine. But when the team ends up 1-15 with one of the worst defenses in the league, they are going to get some blame.
EXACTLY! The important thing here is clearly building for the future and finding a franchise QB. Throwing out a highly drafted prospect simply because he may be having problems entering his 2nd year for a 7 year vet that has already shown what his ceiling is makes no sense at all. Since the focus is clearly towards the future, as Parcells has stated himself, the logical thing would be to hold on to both prospects and have someone working with both constantly. Hire a second QB coach if need be to work with them solely during the season. I don't care what it takes just make sure that both of these guys gets the shot to develop BEFORE we give up on them. Secondly, as to the argument that we NEED a vet to back up Pennington..... WHY? Are we challenging for something this year? Is keeping our prospects over a mediocre vet backup going to keep us out of a Super Bowl birth? There's no risk in keeping our young QB's here. Just look at what New England and Indianapolis have done the past years. Here's teams that are top contenders for Super Bowl appearances and yet they've only carried 2 QB's on their roster. Both organizations didn't go with a vet backup, they went with developing youth. If these organizations that had a ton to lose if a QB went down decided developing youth at the position was worth the risk of not carrying a vet backup then why on earth would we, a team contending for anything at this point not do the same?
Saban did play a role in their success, but the players are the ones out on the field executing the gameplan and the Phins retained Capers as the DC and they had no reason to believe that there would be an implosion. Which is why the FO gave guys like Roth, Crowder, etc a bigger role, because they felt that they were ready to step up and replace the aging vets. You're not going to get an instant game changer in the middle of the draft, the FO reserved the first few picks to improve the offense and the earliest that you would have seen a defensive player chosen was either in the slot where Booker was chosen (he was described as great value) or in the 4th where Soliai was chosen. They had the offesne ranked as their #1 priority, they needed to select a Qb and didn't like what they saw in Quinn, we needed help on the OL and they signed Porter to add even more talent and experience to the defensive side of the ball. There was absolutely no reason to criticize them for their selections at that time. Using hindsight one could say "We should have picked Willis over Ginn", but again that would be using the invaluable tool of hindsight, something that the FO wasn't able to use. They addressed their defensive concerns during FA and used the draft to fix the O, simple as that. Noone said they don't deserve blame, but placing blame on them for not drafting more defensive help when everyone in the Dolphin universe felt that the O was in need of a serious overhaul and that the D had youngsters ready to step up and was better with the addition of Porter....is silly. Cam and Randy deserve blame for the poor conditioning of the team, they deserve blame for playing Porter out of position, they deserve blame for losing the lockerroom, but blaming them for not drafting defensive players early is nothing but hindsight IMO. Again, you have to go back in time and remember that the offensive line was horrendous, we had no speed and a lack of talent at WR, the QB position definitely needed a prospect and the #4 ranked defense got a bit younger and better. The mindset at the time was fixing the offense and everyone agreed with that assessment.
I'm starting to question whether or not Parcells and Co. have the same mindset that they did a few months ago. If rebuilding is indeed still the plan and McCown is kept as insurance incase Penny goes down, why was Pennington brought in at all? We already had a vet QB on the team and were willing to go into battle with that group before Penington was released. If we are going to try and win as many games as possible at the expense of our youngsters (Penny, possiblity of Glenn and Bentley), is that really rebuilding? Something doesn't add to me, and I wonder if the plan has changed.
I kinda thought the same thing earlier. Perhaps they have seen things to give them more faith in the fact we will be competitive this year. Perhaps, after seeing Ricky running very very good, evaluating some of the players that have been brought in and a few of the leftovers from the previous regime they thought we were only a "game managaging accurate QB" away from being a very competitive football team. Or, perhaps Pennington was just the way to upgrade the QB position as they continue to do with every spot on the roster. Either way, I think we are better now then we were last week and will continue to get better as this plays out. Competitive? Won't really know until they line it up and kick it off against the Jets in week 1. Still, very very interesting point of view.
Based on our coaching decisions since we signed Pennington, I think we may be moving towards trading Beck. Especially based on our needs and the fact that he can fetch us a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
That assumes that there isnt space between him and Henne and Beck. Its all about how the coaching staff perceives him. McCown isnt auditioning himself for a role on this team. The coaching staff knows what they have. So if he's playing worse then he has the last few years it doesnt matter because they'll go by his body of work (mediocre at best). Beck on the other hand has to prove that he's capable of being at least as good as McCown has been in the past. Now thats not that big a hurdle and if he cant do that, then there is zero reason to keep him around. Are we going to keep Beck around in the hopes that next year Beck can be as good as McCown was last year lol. At that rate of development maybe Beck could become good by the time he's 35
Yeah I agree. I think Parcells first instinct was to just get rid of Beck but when he watched the tape he saw something that he wanted to get a closer look at. I'm pretty sure he has his mind made up one way or the other. If he keeps Beck, he still sees something there. If not, there is nothing there
Judging by the preseason practices, blogs (Omar not included) and game so far there isn't any space between the QB's. Noone has pulled away from the pack and noone has put themselves in the doghouse, they've all been pretty even in that respect. And if he is playing worse than he has the past few years I think it does matter. Noone is going to get by based on past performance alone, they have to show that they are going to contribute now. If McCown isn't outplaying the youngsters then that speaks poorly of him. If McCown is doing well and the youngsters are on his heels (again, no reports of him pulling away from the pack), then it speaks well for them and puts McCown on the hot seat. If the continued mismanagement of young players that started last year continues under this regime, then I could understand your argument about his rate of development. But last year was a total cluster**** in that regard and Beck really had no chance to succeed. I would hope that this FO would handle things differently than Cam/Randy did last year and would try to develop young talent. Like I said before, we are very lucky to have two young and talented prospects at the QB spot, the FO owes it to the team to make sure they know what they have before they move on, otherwise it's a waste of an asset and a very high draft pick after only 1 year. What happens next year if Henne doesn't immediately impress? I would hope that the FO wouldn't toss him off to the side for yet another castoff QB trying to salvage his career.
Judging from Sparano's PC, it looks like Pennington and Henne have been separated from Beck and McCown
Judging from the whole quote and not just a snippet, it looks like the team is rotating players to get a better look at them. McCown and Beck have taken more snaps than Henne (remember Henne was a little late signing and Beck has been throwing for months and working with the staff) so Sparano's explanation seems spot on.
L2G agree 100% You can look at this weeks practice reps in many many different ways. We all know Chad is going to be the starter week 1 (unless some freak injury during preseason). It has been pretty apparent that no QB has separated him self and I don't think the preseason game Sat broke that pack open much either way. We could assess it as Henne is #2 and getting reps. He is this staffs pick. Stuff like that and perhaps they are right. Or perhaps........ It is as I said in another post, Henne's "turn" to get some reps first of the next three and they want to give him every opportunity to prepare for this. I don't know how much 1st team players were in when he played Saturday night, but if he is next in the rotation after Chad I would bet there will be more starters in at the time. There are just a certain # of snaps to go around, so these two get them. Beck/McCown are still on the team and I am sure they are just not sitting around holding a clipboard. Some training/practicing is going on. I would not make a decision on who's where on the depth chart or trade/release list at this time until something official comes from the staff.
Right and also people need to keep in mind that the depth chart is listed in order of seniority and not on performance. Like you said, until something is made official we should all just be patient.
