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4 reasons we lost. Week 5

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GISH, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Over Yonder
    1. Standing in the pocket...
    2. Standing in the pocket...
    3. STANDING IN THE POCKET!!!!
    4. SACKED!!!!

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  2. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Team was just not built right. Look at Dallas, great OL, was easy to turn to Dak. I agree they need to take a qb, but what is the plan to fix the line. You cant count on anyone on a week to week basis


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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    #1 should be run defense (or lack thereof).
     
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  4. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    They had a great OL last year, yet they still finished with a worse record than the Dolphins in 2015. So turning to a backup QB when you have a great OL is no assurance of success.

    The fact is Prescott is better than Tannehill and it's not even close.
     
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  5. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    What was number 3 again?
     
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  6. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    That wide 9 scheme allowed their linemen to immediately engage our LB's.
     
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  7. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    stop posting on-topic
     
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  8. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Chip Kelly ran that wide 9 in Philly and if I recall they did not do well with it.
     
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  9. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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    Mariotta was 20/29 and 3TDs. Titans had over 200 yards rushing. Tannehill only had 18 attempts. There is so much wrong with this team. How come it seems every year the team makes strides to improve and it never does? We have different players and coaches and nothing is changing. What is the common factor? The owner? It is obvious no team will come close to beating NE but wouldn't it be great to be there at the end making an attempt anyhow? It doesn't matter what we do next year, there is no evidence over the past couple of decades that anything will change. We have a QB now that can string together 25 straight passes and when he is on, he looks incredible but he can't do that more than a couple of games a year. We have a Defense that at times in the past few years (not this year) that looks incredible but they fold in the end. There is talent. Could it be just bad coaches for decades?
     
  10. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I think the biggest common factor is the guys evaluating, and selecting the talent. It's just not good enough.
     
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  11. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    It's not about talent or coaching. It's about culture. The culture sets the expectations, and the coaches and players will fulfill those expectations. You ever wonder why players can come and go from Pittsburgh, New England, Green Bay, but they are never as effective with other teams. Culture breeds accountability. Lack of culture breeds pointing fingers and looking out for yourself over the team. Miami is a laughingstock because they allow themselves to be a laughingstock.

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  12. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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    How do you fix that? I would have thought that bringing Parcells in a few years back would have been a step in that direction but it didn't work. Beyond the ownership, is there anyone else you get rid of that is sustaining that culture?

    If you look around, there are other teams that are worse off but not many. The Bills and Jets have been irrelevant for years and this has to do partly with the Patriots. Other teams like Detriot and Cincy have probably had similar situations where they felt they were better and contenders and failed year after year.

    I think the culture of fans for Miami is changing. Up until only 10 years ago most would agree that we were close and for decades were were always a game or two or three from getting to the Superbowl. We always had a chance, even after Marino. Even 7 years ago we seemed to turn the corner in what ended up being a fluke year. For the past 7 years though every year it seemed we got better. New coach, new QB etc and nothing worked. That wears you down after a while to the point where I would have to imagine no one believes in anything until there is proof of improvement. Instead of thinking - we are play-off bound we think can we possibly hit the right combination of players and coaches over the next 5 years to build to 8-8 and maybe 9-7 and perhaps even 10 wins.

    At some point, probably already there, it is a matter of no expectations beyond a few wins and perhaps an upset or two each season.
     
  13. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Detroit used it a lot under Jim Schwartz and Jim Washburn who is now our current D-Line coach and it was very effective. Along with Suh and Jason Jones when they were there.

    Our linebackers just aren't good enough.
     
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  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    More gems
     
  15. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    This. We all worship at the throne of don shula but we never mention bobby beathard who was as responsible if not more for our dominance in the 70s. We need bobby beathard 2.0
     
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  16. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    5. Albert inactive
    Tunisil inactive
    Howard inactive
    Foster inactive
    Misi inactive
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Wrong, it is totally about the talent. Or in the case of the Dolphins, the obvious lack of talent throughout the entire roster.
    You put Pro Bowl caliber players on this roster and that would take care of this so called bad culture.
     
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  18. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    An organization which relies year after year on players with a history of missing games due to injury have zero excuses when these players are injured and miss games.
    Foster, Albert, and Misi haven't made it through an entire season without missing games in years and yet the Dolphins continue to expect something different this year.

    Howard was injured before the season and now is injured again. Pouncey just returned after his third hip injury in the last three years. Jenkins can't be relied on because he is constantly missing games because of one injury or another.

    You can always say that injuries are part of the game and that is true. Yet good teams overcome these injuries and don't constantly use these injuries to explain away losses.

    The Vikings lost their starting QB and All pro RB and have suffered other injuries to starters this season. Yet they are 5-0. So constantly making excuses for the Dolphins by bringing up the fact the players who always seem to be injured are injured again is ridiculous.
     
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  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    We were 6-10 last year. The Vikings were a playoff team. They can afford injuries. I think this year more so thN many others shows the importance of oline and how its more important than skill players. We are a 6-10 that also has the misfortune of getting alot of injuries over the last weeks. You can't expect to wave a magic wand and think we can still be competitive
     
  20. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I looked at the talent, or should I say lack of talent on this roster before training camp ever started and predicted they would be a 5-11 or 6-10 team this season.

    All the injuries have done is turn a bad team into a terrible team. If they had gone through the entire season without losing a single player to injury, I still think with the overall lack of talent throughout the roster, they would not be better than a 6-10 team this year.

    Saying the Vikings were a playoff team last year, so they could afford to lose their starting QB and best offensive player at RB and still remain good is ridiculous.

    They remain good because they have a front office that knows how to select talent which can fill in effectively if a starter goes down with injury. The Dolphins front office can't even select starters who can play effectively most of the time and the backups for these starters are basically dreadful.

    The problem with this organization is the same thing it has been the last eight years. An owner who is clueless when it comes to hiring the right individuals to build a successful football team.

    Blame injuries all you want. But until Ross either sells the team or actually hires someone who knows how to build a quality football team, the Dolphins are doomed to be the Cleveland Browns of the south for years to come.
     
  21. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Remember when we didn't re-sign Miller and opted for Arian Foster? Remember how we kept BOTH Billy Turner AND Dallas Thomas on the active roster? Remember when we got rid of Rishard Matthews and traded a pick to move up for Leonte Carroo, who has yet to see the field (despite Kenny Stills's best efforts)?

    You know how we now owe Suh $19 Mil and $26 Mil the following year with no sign of having a competent counterpart or any rushers off the edge. On that subject, remember when we got a "steal" in Mario Williams after letting Vernon walk? And how we traded a high mid-round pick in exchange for the tandem of Kiko Alonso and Byron Maxwell (along with the saddle of his ridiculous goddamned contract)?

    Our future. Just like that. Gone.

    So, we've $41 Mil tied up in the defensive line, and $30 Mil tied up in the "offensive line". That's $71 Million dollars worth of can't-win-the-line-of-scrimmage and can't-get-to-the-point-of-attack, with some can't-hold-a-block sprinkled in.


    I think it's time to look higher up in the organization. The root of the problem with this franchise goes well beyond the statue we now have under center.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I certainly agree the lack of talent on this roster and the money tied up in non productive players is totally the fault of Tannebaum and those who have been responsible for selecting the personnel on this team for the past several years.

    While Tannehill certainly isn't the main problem on the team at this time. The problem going forward is that Tannehill also isn't part of the solution either. After this season, it would be best for Tannehill and the Dolphins to part ways. The Dolphins need to start rebuilding with a young new QB and maybe Tannehill can develop into a better QB with another organization.

    I just don't see Gase wanting to risk his job hoping that Tannehill finally GETS it.
     
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  23. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    You are wrong, and there is far more evidence in my favor. Free agency does not work. You can't just buy talent and expect to win. Good culture will create pro bowl players. Bad culture will destroy them.

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  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    you know who the GM of the Vikings is right? Rick Spielman. The very guy who dolphin fans universally ran out of town. were we supposed to give him more time?
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He never stood a chance here. He wasn't terrible, but he wasn't fully in control either. That's the problem with the Dolphins. It's always half assed. Wannstedt put those teams together and had a huge influence on what Spielman did.

    The thing is, Spielman and the staff did well to identify Brees as a top target back then (but ended up with Fletcher) but he's struggled with it in Min
     
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  26. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that completely. However, I do agree that fixing our oline and fixing the QB are synonymous. Tannehill would look like Dallas' back up QBs last year (they were all horrible) and DP would struggle mightily here. We need to sign, draft, and develop three OL positions for next year AND get a QB that can play. Right now, both of these positions are a mess. Tannehill just isn't smart enough what he lacks physically or physically gifted enough to overcome his lack of intelligence. He's a trainwreck.
     
  27. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    he gets rid of it so quick, and he moves in the pocket. OL is very good, but
     
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  28. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    But does the "QB guru" have to much ego to admit he can't fix this QB? I mean, that is why he got the job in the first place.
     
  29. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think fans ran him out, i think he likely wanted out when he did not have full control. I am pretty sure he did not want Fletcher as 1st round pick.
     
  30. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's very possible that Gase didn't quite realize how broken Ryan Tannehill already was when he got here.

    I think when you combine that with how awful we've been up along the OL this year (and injuries have a lot to do with that), it's really hard to even evaluate. In another thread there's the PFF stat of the Dolphins/Tannehill leading the league... 43% of dropbacks the QB has been pressured which is of course the worst rate in the NFL. That doesn't excuse Ryan's own poor play either, but it's a contributing factor.

    Bottom line for Gase, he's going to have to admit it. He's also going to have to do a good job making his case that the overall talent level on this roster is simply not good enough for anyone to win with. That should be a pretty easy sell really.
     
  31. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    There wasn't one defender of spielman on football boards while he was here. Dolphins fans got what they deserved on that one
     
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Gase doesn't see it that way. Once again he had a presser yesterday and said tannehill isn't to blame and implied that fans who think another QB could do more don't know what they're talking about. The good thing is Albert will play this weekend and maybe even tunisil so well be able to evaluate tannehill again. Gase basically agrees that there comes a poi t where the line can get so bad that you cant evaluate any of the rest of the offense. That's literally been the case the last two weeks. As for the first three weeks gase said that yannehill carried the team on his back in the 4th quarter of each of those games showing true leadership
     
  33. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understand what you're saying. Really, I do. When you cant run the ball and your QB is being pressured on 43% of his dropbacks according to PFF, you're QB is going to struggle, and it's going to be tough to evaluate him. However, that being said, it's pretty obvious watching him as well that he's not doing enough himself, even if those options may be limited by his own abilities, the system, the defense, or other players on offense.

    I think you also need to understand coach speak as well. Gase has been very to the point since he's been hired that he's going to have Ryan's back, because he needs that confidence, and the prior staff really didn't have his back in that way. So, of course he's going to trot out there to his press conference every week and praise him for the most part. That's just what a coach should do. I don't read too much into that.

    Ultimately, no matter how anyone feels on Tannehill, it's been very difficult to evaluate him thus far. It doesn't look like he's improving. What we really need, as you mentioned, is time with Albert, Tunsil, Pouncey, Bushrod and Pylon James along the line. That's the most talented combo we have, it may not be good enough, but it's all we have. We need to see him out there though with that whole lineup to know for sure, but so far... the Ryan Tannehill arrow is trending down, no matter how you look at it. All I want is some stability on that OL so Gase can get a better look and judge for himself.

    You can quote Gase from a press conference all you want, but he's made it clear from day one he's not going to throw Ryan under the bus, even if he likely deserves to be.
     
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  34. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    What concerns me is that we have tried changing the OL, the OC, the head coach, the receivers and everything looks exactly the same. The only constant is the QB in the equation.

    How can the Dolphins continue to "upgrade" the offensive line yet it still suck year after year? How do other teams find their OL's so easily. The Seahawks had like 40% undrafted players on their team yet they keep winning..... is our OL coaching that horrible. The guys picking the talent that horrible?

    how can the fans see that 2 players on the OL need to be flat out cut, yet they keep getting chance after chance?
     
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  35. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with the first part. You can only change so much before you get to the decision of, well, maybe it's just not going to work for this QB here. That being said, you've also got to be able to evaluate those changes. Were they the right changes? You can still make a change, and end up in a worse situation. For example, Bill Lazor. Just because you made a change, doesn't mean it's an improvement. It should be, that's the goal of making the change, but it doesn't always work. The OL changes are an example of that recently around here.

    You can call what we've done to the OL this year upgrading if you wish. I'm not so sure though that's what to call it. The solution was to continue with Branden Albert who can't stay healthy, that should have been a known fact that he would get hurt again. Laremy Tunsil is an absolute upgrade, but is not playing at his natural position. Pouncey has yet again been out and hurt. Bushrod is likely a slight upgrade at RG, but is playing out of position as well. Jawuan James was probably considered the safest holdover, but he's been absolutely terrible. Our biggest problem IMO is OL coaching this year. Sure, guys like Turner and Thomas are still getting beat physically, but they're backups, and not the most talented guys on the roster. How many instances have we seen already this year of someone on the OL standing there, blocking nobody at all as someone runs right by him? That's not a guy getting beat physically, he's getting beat mentally by his own self. There's a good 3-4 gif's floating around in various threads of those plays right now, and on twitter. Foerster should have been out over the 10 days between Cincy and Tennessee.

    It's easy for us to say Turner and Thomas should be out. However that's easier said than done. The football people in charge of that are tasked with replacing them, but it's not like these guys grow on trees. Who do you want them to replace them with right now? A street FA? Chances are they're no better, hence the reason they're not on a roster. You could raid a practice squad for a guy, but there's likely a reason there on a PS now; they need development. We need upgrades that can come in and play. They just don't exist. Sure you could have had some of the guys in free agency, but look at the deals they signed, could we really afford them under the cap?

    It's just a constant cycle of mistakes, and poor decisions and evaluations.
     
  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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