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Tannehill to remain starter. So let's just get over it.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Colmax, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    He actually sounded surprised Tannehill was still standing at this point.
     
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  2. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I think we're ALL surprised that Tannehill is still standing at this point.
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There should be two interpretations of this:

    1) It's amazing he's still standing despite the OL being like swiss cheese after all these years

    2) It's amazing he's still standing there and not learning better pocket presence after all these years

    Both are true and frustrating.
     
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  4. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Please explain what a pocket is to me.
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So let me ask this again...I asked it months ago...what would you have Tannehill do? Should he scrap the play before the ball is snapped, and simply take the snap, and instead of finishing his drop and looking to throw, simply bail from the dropback, and take off running? Gase is telling us what we already know, that Tannehill is getting hit before even out of his drop sometimes, or just as he throws. He's not displaying pocket presence because he never gets the chance.

    If Gase still has his back, then I'm still all in on Tannehill.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's the area around which the OL is supposed to protect the QB in passing situations, but if the OL fails to do so, the pocket is the area the QB should escape from in timely fashion to extend a play.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I usually have four in my pants, and I use them very well.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So your argument is that there is never a time where there isn't a pocket.
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'm no longer asking Tannehill to do anything but to make room for the next QB. I'm utterly confident now he's incapable of learning good pocket presence.
     
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Tannehill has had pockets quite a few times. At least 2 games this year he had good protection and he still displays bad pocket presence. A good number of sacks are because he just stands there (2 in the first game and at least one this last game based just on memory).
     
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That didn't answer my question.

    And you're using this last have as evidence?? Dude was getting smashed all game long. How long was he just standing in this pocket you speak of? And was it a pocket that the oline created by defending the area, or the pocket that they didn't create so he's supposed to escape?
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. OK if you want to be technical. Do you think every moment in time is a "passing situation"? So obviously the answer is "no".

    And nothing in the "definition" implies the pocket exists during the entire play.

    Yeah, there was one play Tannehill just stood there forever in the last game.. I don't have the tape but it happened. Besides it's not like that was a rare example of bad pocket presence. There's a pattern here resnor.
     
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  13. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    You mean like this?

    [video=twitter;785493492764184578]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/785493492764184578[/video]

    [video=twitter;785495175493775360]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/785495175493775360[/video]

    [video=twitter;785495833596817413]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/785495833596817413[/video]
     
  14. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I only use two unless i'm golfing. Sitting on a wallet is bad for your back.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You defined the pocket as existing whether the oline created the pocket or not.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not true. Logically speaking, that "area" can change based on where the OL is. You're just assuming it can't even though nothing in the "definition" implies that.

    Seriously.. are we going down this road?
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    chow yun fat, donnie yen and jackie chan couldnt escape our protection even if you allowed them to use their wu xia wires but go on with your fantasy narrative
     
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  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    that was the cleveland game where i think he was referring to when cleveland lined up six rushers all standing at the line. You didnt know where the blitz was coming from. i'm pretty sure Gase used that as an example of something we werent prepared for (meaning coaching staff didnt tell the players to expect it) and as an example of the great game that hue jackson called
     
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  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    man what Jackson did with Kessler and Pryor that game was exciting as hell..

    Pryor was a toy I always wanted, even when he was going from team to team…..were dumb.
     
  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It is pretty amazing how many teams passed on Pryor multiple times while he was floating around. Maybe that's because he was still insistent on playing QB, being open to a position change probably opened a lot of doors for him. But as an athlete, with his size and ability, and multi-talented skill set as a runner, receiver, passer, he should have been an attractive project to everybody.
     
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  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I meant, what would five you the idea they are doing good? Holding blocks 4 seconds? No pressures, no sacks?
     
  23. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Sure... it's a semi-circular formation formed by 5 guys working in unison to protect the QB. Usually works like these examples...

    Here's what Dak gets - [​IMG]


    This what Carr gets - [​IMG]


    Gabbert's protection - [​IMG]



    Stanton with Cards. Note that upfield push. [​IMG]



    Andy Dalton against us - [​IMG]




    Now contrast those with this cluster fk we call a pocket in Miami.
    3 man rush - [​IMG]


    Another. [​IMG]


    Being hit as he throws. [​IMG]
     
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  24. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Correction: The pressure has come 43% of the time. That still leaves 57% of the plays we're not doing jack sh*t with anyways.

    Those snapshots you provided are isolated and once again undermining what other QB's around the league are doing when they are pressured.
     
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  25. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Which has nothing to do with the question... but ok.

    Not doing Jack sh*t? Ryan Tannehill has an NFL passer rating of 116.6 without pressure, 31.1 with pressure. Hes under pressure 43.3% of the time; most in the NFL

    The hits, knockdowns, and sacks are not singular actions with no linger effects either.

    But sure, anything that even hints that Tannehill is not to be the biggest fk up at QB in the NFL is always an aberration with some guys.

    The point was that the vast majority of other teams can form an actual pocket to give their QB a platform to survey the field, make his reads, and deliver the ball.

    We haven't done that and each game has had a different OL starting or finishing games this season. Our OL continues to be a cluster fk and it's stifling the entire offense.
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You said this:

    You said it's either the area around which the oline protects the QB, but if that doesn't happen, it's the area the QB needs to escape from. That certainly sounds like you're saying there's a pocket, even when the oline fails to establish one.

    Yeah, I guess we are going to go down this road.
     
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Suppose there are no apples on a table. Now, I ask you to bring me all apples on the table.

    Just because I reference "apples on the table" doesn't mean there exist any. It's something that can confuse people when learning logic or math I know, but it's logical.

    So in both bolded portions there is no assumption that the referenced "area" (the pocket) exists. What the "definition" does is relate that area (IF it exists) to other concepts, like "OL", "passing situations", etc..
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    LOL

    That literally makes no sense.
     
  29. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    A world without "pressure" is fantasy land. However, the percentage does need to come back down towards the NFL mean.

    Regardless, the massive variance between his performance with pressure vs. without is not simply symptomatic of just the O-line, but also of his overall poor pocket awareness.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah I know it can be confusing. I'll give it one more try but no more (this is really the wrong type of forum for that haha!)

    Hypothetically, let's explicitly define the pocket as consisting of all points in space that are at most 2 meters away from the left tackle AND at most 2 meters away from the right tackle.

    As long as both tackles are within 4 meters of each other, there are points in space that satisfy both constraints. So the pocket exists. Move the tackles more than 4 meters away from each other and the definition of "pocket" (in this hypothetical case) is still valid but there are no points in space that satisfy the criteria.

    In other words, the existence of that area - the pocket - depends on where the OL are. Hope that helps. If not, no big deal.
     
  31. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    The bolded was something that PFF tweeted out. "without pressure" is what they were referring to as drop backs when he doesn't have someone in his face, trying to rupture his spleen with a blindside hit, or otherwise disrupting the play before the pass was fired.

    Agree on the variance. If you watched the Titans game, you saw him beat the blitz several only to have his receivers lose the ball twice. You also saw 2 long plays he delivered when he had time to do so and his receivers didn't fail. Same thing in the Bengals game.

    And again, you're creating your own arguments. Not one time has anyone said that his own performance doesn't need to improve. That said, when any QB is sacked on 1/3 of his drop backs, it ain't all on him, no matter how much a subset of "fans" want it to be.
     
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  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Sack on 1/3rd of this drop backs?

    - In his career he's been sacked 201 times in 2,404 attempts (8.5%).
    - For 2016, sacked 17 times in 156 attempts (10.9%)

    As far how PFF defines "pressures" - please list it for me rather than embellish it with your own narrative.
     
  33. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    How bout you stop moving the goal posts? That wasn't in reference to his entire career, but the TN game, which I was clearly referring to.

    To simplify what I said: against the Titans, Tannehill had 18 pass attempts and was sacked 6 times. Do the math.

    You're a fine one to complain about narratives or "embellishments". You haven't have to reply to anything I've said, but instead of you continuing to be obtuse, you can google on your own for PFF Definitions.

    BTW, for anyone interested, here are same career sack percentages from PFR - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_perc_career.htm

    RWilson 8.48%
    ASmith 8.19%
    RTannehill 7.72%
    Roethlisberger 7.39%
    Cam Newton 7.20%
    Aaron Rodgers 6.98%
     
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  34. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Miscommunication.

    You're accusing me of remaining obtuse, yet you can't produce PFF's definition of pressure an argument YOU presented and are asking me to research. :up:
     
  35. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Uh, no, I'm simply not fetching water for you. If you're going to jump into something, then dispute something else, then the onus is on you at that point. You can google it or let it go... suit yourself.
     
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  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I have tried already.

    Not going to sit here spinning my wheels with the Google machine trying to fact check what YOU claimed PFF calls a "Pressure".
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Up until this past game he was not the most pressured, Luck was. I believe Tanny was 3rd.

    This past game, yes, that's what happens when your entire left side is gone and the two starters are no longer even employed.
     
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  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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  39. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

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  40. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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