Improv! Could there be chemistry developing...or even better....?

"everybody cheats" is the classic argument that cannot be disproved and it's useful just to dismiss that the Patriots have been found guilty and punished accordingly.
The Patriots, not the Pitts Steelers, not the GB Packers, not the SF 49ers, not the Ravens, and so on, not the Seattle Wilsons.
Just the Patriots.

Everybody can have an opinion about how big of an advantage they gained (some say a very small one; others think is a big one, like Bill B, apparently, seeing as he kept doing it even after being warned to stop it) but the fact still remain that they have been punished.
Not other teams.

After this post, outrage because Resnor was comparing Tannehill to Wilson, lol

ps as usual, sorry for the English

 

lol. Res syas Brady is great cause he cheated. He uses the fact he was a low round pick who overnight became great, you counter with the another example of a low round QB who overnight became great .....who's admitted to cheating....and you think you made a statement for your stance?

Jesus.

 

Kurt Warner was undrafted, Brad Johnson was a 9th round pick, Mark Rypien was a 6th round pick, all SB winners, not to mention all the other successful mid to late round QBs, like Dak Prescott or Matt Hasselbeck.

 

/thread


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Sigh.

Resnor is not saying all non first round QBs will suck and can never be great. If you think he said that, the problem is your own lack of reading comprehension/ability for critical thinking.

He is saying, that being a low round pick, who ALSO has been busted (him and his team) multiple times for cheating, is a giant red flashing arrow, towards his greatness being overrated.

My god people.

 

Well, point out specifics on how they are cheating that allows Brady to complete passes, and then we will listen.

You want to attach cheating to his accomplishments, but how has Brady played since deflategate? If you cannot attach that to his play, then just drop it already.

 

The illegal taping was much, much bigger than Deflategate.

I don't believe that the Patriots have stopped cheating. They have a decade record of consistently cheating.

 

I agree with not being able to dismiss it, but the NFL didn't take away any superbowl rings or trophies. They should have banned them from the playoffs for a couple years. Maybe that would tell them and the rest it's not OK.

 

The NFL won't do anything like that, as it would seriously call into question the integrity of the league (more than it already is).

 

Spygate isn't that big a deal, there were multiple teams doing it which forced the league to send out a memo that year, which is what really irked the NFL.

Stealing signals is still done, they have guys that write every signal down that they can see, and the corresponding play, which they do have tape of, it's more labor intensive, but it is essentially the same job a video does, just not as efficiently.

That is perfectly legal, nearly the same results as taping, again, just more labor intensive.

The Patriots won 69.3 % of their games while they were taping signals, they have won 75.6 % of games after the spygate scandal, since spygate, they have the best record in the NFL, so I can't see where this is such a big deal.

By far the worst thing about deflategate is the cover up, the actual infraction can't even be proven to have any beneficial effects, except that Brady likes them slightly under inflated.

Clearly that hasn't changed his play at all, he's won a SB without it, and has posted great numbers since, in fact, you could make a very strong case that it wasn't helping him at all;

2013-14 with deflated balls
[TABLE="class: suppress_all sortable stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]753[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]1210[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]62.2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]8452[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]58[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]1.7[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]81[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]7.0[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]7.2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]11.2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]264.1[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]92.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
green and red= comp%, TD%, INT%, YPA, YPG, rating
Since deflategate
[TABLE="class: suppress_all sortable stats_table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]523[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]790[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]66.2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]6405[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]48[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]6.1[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]1.0[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]76[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]8.1[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]8.9[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]12.2[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]305.0[/TD]
[TD="class: right, bgcolor: #FFFF88, align: right"]107.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Every single important QB stat has significantly to drastically gotten better since deflategate.

The only thing I'm saying about it, is that deflating balls is not a reason why he's a great QB, because without taping, and without deflated balls, these are the numbers he's putting up.

The topic was that Brady is great because they cheat, not if the Pats are cheating, but so far, there is not one shred of evidence that anything they've done has helped him be a great QB, so this argument ought to be put to bed unless someone can come up with something substantial.

 

....Why ya'll arguing.....

 

Cause it's Thursday.

 

Spygate was much more involved and nuanced than you're making it out to be. NE was doing far more than other teams.

 

You need evidence to prove that ? Maybe you've never thrown a football, or just never had a game of catch in below freezing temperatures. The point to deflating the ball correlated to the temperatures and how they effect the ball. Taking a little air out in the cold makes a HUuuuuuuuuuge difference for the Qb and whomever is catching the ball. They snuck them into a bathroom to deflate them, and then Tom destroyed his phone containing evidence ...and proceeded to deny. Please stop ignoring facts like these in an attempt to dismiss the cheating that occurred. You should be furious, not defending them. It's embarrassing to see Dolphins fans defend their rivals blatant cheating, when real investigations occurred and infractions were induced.

 

If ToM and the patriots are so good they why the **** do they try to cheat every chance they get? And when they're caught... They deny and look for new methods....... But please... Go on about your admiration.

Before spygate: 3 superbowls in 4 years.
after spygate: 0 in Almost a decade
after deflate gate & eligible lineman: they got another one.

Everybody knows what a great coach Bb is, and what a great QB Brady is... But to defend their actions or even pretend the cheating was irrelevant is mind boggling.... You must be reading the Boston globe. Even Ben Violin has to play along, but he knows.... He knows....

 

I am of the opinion that had Brady acknowledged what happened, and his part in it, he would have just gotten a slap on the wrist thanks in part to Kraft's friendship with Goodell. It was the endless denials that pissed off Goodell, at which point Goodell decided to go "all in" and try to make an example of him.

 

No one is dismissing the cheating, they cheated, that isn't the topic, it's whether the cheating has led to Brady being great.

Now your saying that there is a huuuuge difference with deflated balls in the cold, but stats do not back that claim up at all, Brady has actually played better since deflate gate, so there is no truth to what you're claiming.

 

Sports Illustrated came up with something substantial at the beginning of the season- the mainstream media just ignored it. It's a great read though that documents how the Pats have cheated for the past 20+ years...as in breaking into stadiums and hotel rooms, bugging Gilette and all kinds of other treats. Deflated balls and recording practices was just scratching the surface-

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

 

Anyone who thinks Brady's good because of anything other than Brady himself be a fool


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The topic is did cheating make Brady great, we know the Pats cheated, but Res was trying to make the case that Brady is great because of cheating, which is different than winning because of cheating.

 

Let's see, knowing the other team's defense wouldn't help Brady. Deflating balls wouldn't help him. Having the guys upstairs being able to talk into his mike during the play wouldn't help him. Having the other team's headsets go out doesn't help him.

Yeah, he doesn't benefit from any of that. Hell, that's why the Pats do all that cheating specifically because it gives them no benefit.

Sigh.

 

No...I'm making the case that I think he's less great. I also question how much of their succeas is due to Brady. Massive cheating no doubt helped them, and freaking Cassel won 11 games starting for them.

 

"Tom Brady is less great" lol..

 

Res your my dude but

 

Deej you're my dude but, if you can't even entertain the notion that Brady's numbers are inflated by actual confirmed cheating, then .....

 

No way anyone can debate this with you because you feel strongly that their cheating consistently..even though you have no real proof except for an incident of filming a practice.

 

DJ...the proof was destroyed by Goodell. They had more than filming a practice. They had a room in their facility dedicated to it. The created playbooks off their illegal filming. They did all sorts of stuff with it. Deflategate existed, I believe, solely because Goodell was trying to make up with all the other owners for how badly he botched Spygate. Deflategate blew up on him because he really had nothing, but hammered the Pats.

Yes, Brady's greatness is lessened, for me, due to all the cheating, and the success that guys like Garoppolo and Cassell have had in that system.

 

No real proof? A single incident of filming a practice?

They filmed EVERY practice they could. They have been tampering with equipment from balls to sound systems.

Then there's logic.....everyone acts like these things would at best give minimal gains....ok, fine, minimal gains. So please, apply logic and think medium hard about this and explain to me why, in the name of god, would they risk so much for such a minimal gain? And if they risk all that for just a minimal gain, why wouldn't they risk for things that may be bigger gains?

You understand, the ONLY reason you give them the benefit of the doubt is because...they win. There is not one stitch of evidence, past behaviors, character traits. ANYTHING that says they aren't cheating more and bigger. Nothing.

 

Garoppolo & Cassell both played well enough in each of their stretches that people were openly discussing whether it was time to move on from Brady. Clearly, not cheating......