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wow. our qb has arived

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by caliphinfan, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let's be really honest. The first three games he was mostly a handoff monkey. Then he has 3 pretty impressive games. Two great statistical games against two really bad defenses (chargers and niners). The third impressive game was statistically mediocre against the Rams but a notable comeback.

    And this game. The defense is a mess. But the offense IMO hasn't been that impressive outside of Ajayi who is a stud.

    All the posters are right. Tanny started pressing when we were down because this isn't an offense, and Tanny isn't the qb, who's gonna strike fast and hard consistently.

    Can this offense get through 3 tough defenses in the playoffs?
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    You could see him pressing, everything started going to Landry again. Coach kept calling bubble screens too, wonder if that is all the thought Tannehill could handle at that point.
     
  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe open your eyes and WATCH the game rather than going by quotes you've heard.

    A lot of this first read crap you're rambling about is also by design. It's no lie our OL has been banged up a lot this year. Gase also said multiple times some of the most successful offenses involve short, quick passes. That's essentially a lot of what we've done this year. Get it out quick, let the WR's make plays.

    Just because it's said, doesn't mean that it means what you want it to mean, no matter how hard you try.
     
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  4. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yeah, Dan basically made a career out of doing it, he always had a lousy D, with the added burden of no run game either.
     
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  5. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Idk Brandon, the Ravens D was clearly playing to disrupt RT, and it worked like a charm, the longer the game went, the more discombobulated RT looked, they challenged RT in this game and he failed, even with decent pass pro and decent running.

    These coming weeks will tell a lot, we'll see how he rebounds.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Derek Carr.. David's the one that saw ghosts and became a ghost haha!

    Man.. for all of Philbin's failures, he was definitely right on who we should pick for QB. Imagine having Derek Carr today! (though I guess the downside is we would still be with Philbin!?@!)
     
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  7. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    carr is going to be the MVP. i thought philbin was clueless, but it looks like he might have gotten one thing right, then again, hard to see any QB being succesful under philbin
     
  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd expect that though, especially when you're down 24-0 at halftime. The D knows you're passing. The DE's can pin their ears back and go, the LB's don't pay attention to the run, or PA. I think our offense largely looks the same, week in, week out from the playcall standpoint. You see a lot of the same things over and over again. It's pretty easy for a well coached defense to sniff that out and make an offenses life miserable.

    It is what it is. We've all wasted too much time talking about this disaster of a game lol
     
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  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Absolutely. It was a bad game. My point is one in the last seven isn't regression. Its a bad game. If he plays like that the next four then its regression
     
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Him or Dak Prescott. Prescott's rookie season is arguably more impressive than Wilson's. Adjusted for inflation (of passing stats), Marino was better, but in raw numbers was there ever a QB who in his rookie year had a (so far) 108 rating??? And he's consistent too.
     
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  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I've been saying the same things for YEARS about him. He decides where he is going to throw the ball before the snap, only lately has he started to go to a second read, but quickly reverted back to old form in this game. I'm sorry you cannot comprehend that. I realize you do have comprehension issues.

    I also realize that you don't want to believe what the EXPERTS say about him, but at some point and time you are going to put your big boy pants on and realize that maybe, just maybe they know what they are talking about.
     
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  12. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    It's just sad how Anti-Tanny guys were just waiting for a game like this to pounce on him. Real sad.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    besides that passer rating,
    That doesn't include what the dude does with his legs, has 5 tds just with his legs..lol..
     
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  14. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So much for civilized conversation eh? Way to result to insults. Bravo!

    Clearly you're the one with the comprehension issues because I'm not committing to a stance one way or another on the guy, although you seem to want to lump me into a group because I've disagreed with a particular stance of yours based on nothing but random quotes. I just don't care one way or the other. Actually, I'd like him to pan out, because he's on this team presently. If he's not, I'll pull for the next guy. If you also go back a few pages, or take the time to read and comprehend, I've criticized the guy plenty this week for his play. It's just another example of you hearing what you want to hear, and understanding things the way you want to understand them so you can come in here with posts just like that. It's nonsense man. A lot of offenses and playcalls are created just that way, for the decision to be made presnap. I'm not even going to get into that though, it's just not worth it. So, go ahead and don't let logic get in the way of your crusade.

    Keep up the good work man. Attitudes just like yours are the reasons these threads turn out the way they do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  15. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    true, prescott is super impressive.
     
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  16. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He is, and what a fortunate guy he is. To be thrust into that role, surrounded by that OL, with those RB's, those WR's... I mean, wow, talk about the perfect situation to walk into as a rookie who wasn't expected to play. Sure makes life easier. Not taking anything away from his own talents, because he's clearly talented and is making great decisions, and showing lots of poise, but I'm just pointing out, he's got an outstanding surrounding cast with him. Pretty rare to see a rookie QB thrust into the spotlight with circumstances like that. I love his mobility, and his arm.
     
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  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    equally as sad as how when he has a good game the ones that support him pounce. But, honestly those of us that have had doubts have expressed them all along. We all hope we are wrong though as winning is better then losing.
     
  18. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    You are the one that started it Brandon. Don't go pointing fingers at me.

    You are correct that some plays are designed that way, like the bubble screens, but not ALL the plays are. And if you are calling a high number of one read plays,,, why do you think that is exactly? Maybe, it is the strength of the QB? or perhaps the limitation of the QB.

    Again if the experts are making the comments, well there is something to it. If you want to say my thoughts are nonsense even though the experts are making the same comments, feel free if that makes you feel better.
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    All true.. but I think it's more important to emphasize how impressive the QB here is. As a rookie he's putting up numbers that currently rank him 3rd in the entire league in passer rating and 2nd in Y/A. That's amazing regardless of surrounding cast and on top of that he's doing it as a rookie.

    btw.. it's really interesting to see who's at the top of those rankings: Matt Ryan, who's just having an unbelievable year. He currently has a single season Y/A of 9.2 which ties him for #6 all-time in NFL history (SB era). Matt Ryan is maybe the best example of a QB that just suddenly raises it to another level after almost a decade of playing at a lower level, so who knows.. maybe that happens to others like Tannehill someday? And he's raising MANY key stats to levels previously unseen or rarely reached: TD%, INT%, Y/A, passer rating, etc..
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm
     
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  20. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    his surrounding cast is amazing, he has done everything he has been asked and made very few mistakes. i mentioned carr as mvp earlier because i think he has done more with less but prescott just might get it, especially if they dont lose again this reg season
     
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  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I started nothing. I told you to watch what's going on, rather than listening to so called experts make comments. The context is what's important to understand. You're the one who had to go fly off the handle in typical fashion and start throwing around insults.

    Why do I think that is? Well, obviously for different reasons than you because you only want to focus on the QB. Why did Baltimore go to quick pass, quick read offense? Is it because he sucks, or is limited? You think Flacco didn't stick with his original reads pre-snap? Sometimes, that's the gameplan, that's the playcall. It may be due to the expected pressure from facing a top NFL defense. It may be due to exploiting certain coverages you expect from the defense. You don't even want to think that though, you just want to just straight to blaming it on limitations of the QB. Maybe it is that. Nobody knows that. There's a lot of easy pass concepts that we've run lately, the offense has been simplified a lot of that was due to our offensive line that at times was missing 3 starters. You do those things sometimes. Some of it was due to adapting to the new system. Against SF, they didnt respect the pass game, clearly played to stop the run, we opened it up and went downfield. You take what the defense gives. If you think though, that Ryan Tannehill is incapable of making plays past his first read, or whatever it is you've read from these so called experts, then you're wrong. It's that simple. One of the first few plays of the game this weekend was the one with Tannehill rolling left, usually hitting the TE in the flat, but it's covered, and he jumps to the second level read and his Sims for the completion. That's just one of many examples. Offenses and playcallers go with a lot of what they think the team does well, and what they think will do well against the team they're about to play.

    I'm not saying your thoughts are nonsense. I'm telling you to look beyond what you hear, want to hear, and want to portray. You might find other answers, but you'd rather just take a quote you heard and come back on your crusade without really providing anything more than insults, and "the experts are saying it, so they're right, and im right. that's my opinion and im sticking to it." In another thread you and someone else had made a comment about club people not coming to the mains to participate... This is exactly why man. It's not that you disagree with me. I couldn't care less about that. Finster and I disagreed the other day in this thread. It's that you can't disagree and discuss. If all you're going to do is have an attitude, be snarky, insult, and jump to, "it's the QB! It's his limitations! It's nothing else because I heard someone else say it!" Then, what's the point?

    TL,DR - Look, I'll make it simple and take the high road... we'll agree to disagree.
     
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  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    "I'm not saying your thoughts are nonsense. I'm telling you to look beyond what you hear, want to hear, and want to portray." Perhaps you should take your own advice.

    I've watched every play of every game he has played. I made my comments from day one about him and his deciding where he is throwing before the ball is even snapped. This is nothing new and has recently been supported by experts and an NFL team as well. I think a good defense can set him up and make him throw were they want by hiding coverages. I never once said that Tannehill is not capable of throwing to the second guy, in fact I've complimented his ability to do it the last few weeks,(that is one complaint I have had about him all along) but he quickly reverted to his old self once again.

    You are correct on the roll out just as you are on the some plays being one read. I did see the roll out you mention above and when he hit the second guy, I was like holy **** he actually threw to the second one, where the past week he was passing on a bigger gain for the safe throw. So I was pleased after about the 5th time he did it right.

    Early in the game Flacco had thrown to 9 different receivers, do you think it was all one read,(they called 9 plays all to different receivers) or do you think he hit other options? I'm thinking likely he hit other options. And i thought their quick slant, quick pass attack was brilliant. However, the Dolphins did not and were not doing that.

    The club people come down and stir stuff up cause they cannot handle anyone thinking differently. Actually things were fine here until they came in and started slamming people for having civil discussions on the differences they saw.

    "Offenses and playcallers go with a lot of what they think the team does well, and what they think will do well against the team they're about to play." Gase has called that bubble screen about 20 times this year and it has yet to work.... why do you think that is?
     
  23. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Uhm... that's exactly what I've done. I'm not providing my opinion based on a silly quote, it's my opinion.

    Thank you for this. It's constructive chatter. That's what we need around here.

    There's times where I find Tannehill is good at taking what the defense gives him, and there's times where I find he misses opportunities because they are giving him because he's being too conservative. That's a good, and a bad thing. Top defenses though are good at setting up all QB's. That's their goal. So, I'm not surprised to see it happen to any QB, including ours. I mean, that's the defenses job afterall. Sometimes you just get beat by better talent, better coaching, better scheme. Sunday to me was an awful lot of that, more so than it was on the performance of any one player.

    That's the beauty of game planning, and is again why I said what I said above. We were just outmatched all the way around on Sunday. You see us run a lot of short stuff because we don't have the talent to run this offense the way Gase really wants to run it IMO. It's been a mess all year. Early on, we needed those short screens etc just to get a few quick yards because we couldn't run the ball. Also, Gase likes to use those, to set up a deeper shot based on those screens. We saw him do that a lot in Denver. I think that's why we see it so much. It's not because of the skillset of the QB, or lack thereof.

    That's not it at all actually. It's not about being able to handle different thoughts. It's about the presentation of those thoughts. Rants, attitudes, snarky comments, emotional reactions, insults. Those are the things that like to be avoided, and when they happen, they get pointed out, because some of them are just that... hot takes, reactions, and it's just hard to have good, constructive conversations about them. When you try, it falls on deaf ears, not because it's a differing opinion, but because of attitude. If we were all a little more respectful of differing opinions, the whole board would be much better off. Tannehill threads are especially guilty of it, it just ends up being the same few attacking one another around and around in circles. Anyways... I don't want to get off topic here too far, but it's not the fact that it's a differing opinion, it's the fact that it's often presented in an unbearable/unreadable manner.

    Well, again as I said earlier. Go back and look at his offense in Denver. It was run a lot. There's the potential for it to be many things. It can serve a purpose for a quick 3-4 yard gain if you're struggling to run. It can serve to try and open up the middle of the field as the defense tries to get out to the sidelines to cover them. They can also serve to be a pretty big play if they're blocked well. Unfortunately, our WR's stink at blocking it appears, much like our OL does on screens. There were a lot of plays back in the Denver days of the screens to the WR, then turning into almost a fake as the slot WR takes off downfield and ends up wide open. Maybe they're trying to set that up? Maybe they're just looking for quick yards? Maybe they're looking to just get the ball into the hands of a playmaker like Landry who can make people miss, or a guy like Stills with speed who can hopefully slip away. I mean, there's a number of reasons to run that, outside of trying to say, or imply we run them because our QB lacks the skillset to breakdown and read a defense. I do think that is an area where Tannehill can still improve, but I don't think that's a reason we're running them constantly. Gase said it himself in the offseason, a lot of offenses in this league are based of short passes, to let the WR's make plays after the catch. We've seen this offense this year work short in the pass game, and deeper down the field as well depending on what we're given by the defense.

    Bottom line, we've all got opinions, but they're just that. They can be different and that's ok. What I don't like though, is how the opinion is just.. "This sucks. That sucks." or "He can't do this, he can't do that" without any actual substance or thought as to why. I'm not saying I'm right either. However, I don't believe we are calling WR's screens, or other quick easy passes so many times because we believe that's all the QB can handle. He's shown he can do more than that during this win streak. So after one game, where this hole team stunk, I don't believe that changes just because of a quote. I like to look beyond that, whether my opinion is right or not. I'm not stating it as fact. It's ok not to agree with one another either, the important part though is how we handle that as a group.

    Anyways... we can agree to disagree if you like, and that's cool.
     
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  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    You can't just consider the score...it was how dominated our defense was...the Dolphins could have scored more than their average and it wouldn't have made lick of difference.

    The Bills came back down 31-3 in one half at home, in the playoffs, against Houston, with a BACKUP QB. Miracles happen, but nowhere NEAR the norm.
     
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  25. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow Brandon, this is as good a post that I've read in a long long time. Well said and explained even better. Kudos to you.. lessons for all posters on here, myself included, Thank you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  26. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    No, he didn't. Neither did David Carr. The Dolphins' biggest comeback I could find record of was in 1974...24 points. Since the 80s, 4 teams have overcome a 24 point or higher deficit.

    He DID make a great career out of mostly his pure passing without help from a running game or D, but the biggest comeback I can recall was down 18 to the Jets in the fake spike game, and another 18 down in the playoffs against the Browns. Which NEVER would have happened with his defense giving up points like they were panties on prom night even after being down that far.
     
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  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Well now you're getting really specific, coming back from 24 points down, when the problem IS that we were 24 points down, better play from the QB and that would not have happened.
     
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  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Then how'd Marino get down 18+ ever?
     
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  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What's your point?
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, Tannehill missed the field goal, and it was Tannehill who was too soft to fight the DB on the red zone interception.
     
  31. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    LOL.

    Just been sitting back trying to enjoy the win streak and withholding judgement til we actually played somebody.
     
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  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Actually I remarked in here that I was enjoying it, but was cautious. The Ravens game simply reinforced why I'm not all in ........ while you dance around with that macro made trophy for our 6 game win streak vs. teams collectively 26-44.
     
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  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Exactly my sentiments.
     
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  34. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Luckily there's still time for a strong finish, but man did that Ravens game feel eerily similar to how we responded to big wins vs. the Pats/Steelers in Tannehill's second year.
     
  35. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    ........... I said prior to the Ravens game that now is the stretch of the season where these teams will defend us to force Tanny to beat them. Not like it wasn't obvious or anything though LOL.
     
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  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hey, as long as nobody revives the Luck thread, that is progress.
     
  37. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    It was closer to 6 straight games with some career bests sprinkled in. Not even close.
     
  38. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    So ajayi will be held to what....50 yards against the cardinals?
     
  39. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I did notice in the Colts biggest game of the year Luck threw 4 TD's, but I am sure that is because the Colts defense did something that somehow helped him play well.
     
  40. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Every single one of those 6 games prior to losing to Balt was just as big man...thats what happens when you start 1 and 4. You have no margin for error. I would argue those Pitt, Buff, Jet games were bigger...we literally had no margin.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     

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