WHAT? Which team is going to give us a first day pick for Beck? I'd say the most we can get for him would be a sixth that turns into a fifth if he makes the squad. By the very fact that we would be willing to trade him makes his value go down to every other team. It would be great if Beck and Henne would all of the sudden start playing lights out in the preseason, then Beck would have some value. But right now, all Beck has done is thrown a few checkdowns to the FB, fumbled the ball, and had a pass batted down. That's hardly a resume that a team is looking for in a high draft pick..
If attending practices is what makes you qualified to express a valid opinion about our QBs, then why call reporters, beat writers and bloggers biased? It's not like they are writing a personal peice about politics or morals and values. They might add some flare here and there to entertain the reader but I get the impression that people hang reporters on this site because they don't write what said "hangers" want to read. Why not just disagree and move on to another reporter that you like?
Do I have to be? If the reports for Beck (from anyone but Omar) are to be believed, then why wouldn't they be true for Henne and McCown as well? I read and posted here part of a blog that said all of the QB's were checking down and the reporter questioned if it was part of a plan for practice or the fact that the defense was ahead of the offense. We've read that Henne isn't (gasp) perfect and has thrown his share of interceptions, bad passes and had a pass tipped at the line against Tampa and McCown has faired the same. Sounds pretty much like what I've heard about John Beck from the practice blogs. All of the QB's have had their ups and downs, I'm not sure why the focus is only on one while the others get a pass. Could it be due to bias? In one reporters case, yes. Could it be due to the fact that reporters miss some of the action when they run to their computers to blog? In some cases....yes. Could it be due to reporters viewing everything that Henne does with wide eyes because he's the new guy? In some cases....yes. But I don't understand why the reports lose meaning once they are posted here. I'm reading posts about Henne that, if I didn't know better, would make me believe that he is lighting it up in practice and is ready to start the season now, which is far from the truth. Could it be the same for fans as it is for reporters?
So why when Sparano comes out and gives his explanation for Beck and McCown not getting many snaps the past few days does that get twisted by some into "Beck is going to be cut or traded"?
I couldn't tell you...I can tell you that from what I've gathered, Henne is the 2nd string QB. We are less than one month away from opening the season. They aren't going to split reps to discover who can play, they have already done that. Whether Beck or McCown are gone, or whether both stay, I have no clue. But I think its obvious that Henne is 2nd string at this point.
I've problably read the same reports that you've read and I don't think anyone has expressed nor implied that Henne is ready to start. IMO(and with all due respect), you're spinning the situation so you can respond with a persuasive(really well written, by the way) demeanor and express your personal opinion as if it were the only logical one. Considering we are only past our first preseason game, I don't think anyone can make a valid arguement as to who is ahead between Beck and Henne. Aside from that, could you please(for the love of God) explain to me the hatred towards Omar? At this point I've reached the conlclusion that maybe his urban slang and demeanor might attribute to the gnarling disgust that people have of him on this particular site. I was thinking maybe he wrote past peices and it rubbed (almost) everyone, that posts daily, the wrong way. Or it could be that he's not fond of Beck ? but to my rational and non-judgemental mind, that would be very critical of Dolphin fans. To shun a reporter(who obviously is doing something right or else he'd be on a message board) just because of his ONE opinion about ONE player? I hope I missed a peice written by him that would clearly show me why his opinion is not valid. So if you wish to entertain me, could you tell me the reason for the Omar-hating?
I can't see us keeping FOUR quarterbacks on the squad...so the odd man out is either Beck or McKown. I would be sending McKown packing just because we now have a veteran in Chad who can play until one of the younger guys is ready. All of this could have been a moot point had we signed up Drew Brees instead of Daunte Culfumbler.
To whom? What has he done to distance himself from Beck and McCown? And Sparano's explanation was that both Beck and McCown have thrown a ton of passes and they want to see what Pennington (obviously) and Henne have to offer this week. Keep in mind that the depth chart is still in order of seniority and the FO hasn't given any indication that it has changed. So how is it obvious?
I was talking about the posts here that gush over Henne even though he hasn't done anything to separate himself from the pack. If you want reports, just read any of the "Beck is going to be cut" articles from the past few days. And that is my whole point. To say that one guy has distanced himself is just an opinion that isn't based in fact. I hope you aren't implying, even a little bit, that racism would play a factor in this situation. Truth is that Omar has been slanted in hs views on Beck, going as far as calling him "checkdown" even though other responsible reporters noted that all of the QB's were checking down. Omar penciled McCown in as the starter long ago and once Henne started to show that he wasn't completely overmatched in practice Omar started talking him up. Then Omar hitched his trailor to the Pennington bandwagon once he signed.....he's all over the place and I really doubt that he knows how to evaluate players and just latches on to whoever seems like the sexiest name. Also ck posted an email exchange that sealed it for me. So race (or slang) has nothing to do with the view that Omar has a bias, people were calling him on it in his blog and he was forced to respond to it before it was the "topic of the day" here. Fact is, we aren't the only ones who have noticed it.
bc when you are three weeks away from opening day, you need have your 2nd QB preparing to play. I don't think you can split reps equally at this point. The staff has seen a good amount of practice reps from everyone but Pennington. In terms of what Henne has done to distance himself, I don't know bc I've only seen a fraction of what they've been doing, just like everyone else on this board Posted via Mobile Device
Ooo I see. I don't believe everything I read so I just use all those "reports" for what they are. A source of information.. regardless if I agree or disagree. I've reserve my opinion on who's going to be cut until after the third preseason(perhaps the fourth). And also, I think it's poor practice of targeted reporters to claim Beck'll be cut this early. Absoooolutely true, in my opinion. I didn't even mention race. I said urban demeanor i.e "Deuces", "Holla", "Hit f5" and what not. Which by the way, makes me cringe everytime..but that's another story. So yea.. it's what I had in mind; The nickname "Checkdown", his blantant disregard for Beck and his flopping from one QB to another. This I can grasp and respond to. As a student of journalism and broadcasting, he's only doing his job. To discredit his opinion because of how he mananges his blogs on the quaterback subject isn't fair to the major effort he makes to inform you on how he THINKS the dolphins(as a whole) are doing. I, for one, did not like his praise for Pennington. But how do you know his boss didn't have a say in that? Sometimes reporters are forced to include things in their reports. Also, I didn't like how he ignored Beck but again...he doesn't just write about quaterbacks. So let's say later on in the season David Hyde(which is my fav.) makes his usual GREAT piece. Omar makes a similar one...you aren't going to read it because of what he said during camp and preseason...about Beck? As I'm writing this(just because of the way I am) I start to get discouraged to even keep on with the debate but I remind myself how bad it is. People are expressing nothing short of calling him a bum. It's sad. I thank him and even Armando(which I can't stand) for going to practice, finding out information, analyzing and processing said info and putting out countless pieces so that fans are informed. I get the whole deal with going against the media because of the spin they use and all that. But to take shots at his character? Like I said, he doesn't write personal pieces...he writes football pieces. People on this board write things sometimes that make me scratch my head. More often than not, I'm amazed at the insight on this board. And when it doesn't amaze me, I simply go back to Home and look for something that I do like. I'm not going to go out of my way to call the writer an idiot. Phew... I'm sorry, I've just taken such huge offense to all the reporter bashing. It's not like we are the Jets and Giants. The New York media is one to bash because they thrive on negativity and slander. Omar Kelly is just your local beat writer letting you know how the Phins are doing. He isn't the anti-christ.
Oh and I've disagreed with Omar MAAAANNY times. I wanted Willis, not Quinn.. Flacco sounded okay but I wanted line picks.. I thought his Lemon support was a desperate cry for help at QB.. and calling McCown the starter was somewhat obvious considering he's a "vet". So it's not like I agree with everything he says, I just dont understand why people hate and take shots at the reporters character for not agreeing with them. Almost like if they are SUPPOSED to think exactly like the readers.
Well, it kind of implies race which is why I questioned it. Glad to know that wasn't the case. I haven't even bothered to go back to the Sun Sentinel site since Omar started showing his bias. Because I live in NY I rely on the reporters to give me an honest assessment of what they see in these practices, it's their job to inform the public and not try to pass off their personal feelings as fact. When one reporter goes out of his way to single out a player I lose respect for him and his opinions, again it's his job to report what is going on and not to sensationalize it to draw attention to himself. Not really, he was brought here to compete for the job and Sparano and Co. said as much. Omar jumped the gun big time by penciling him in before camp even started, McCown may not even make the team.
All players are preparing to play, the depth chart is the only thing that will change. Any player that isn't ready to play at any point during the preseason or regular season has no business being here. And the whole point of preseason is to win the position battles, it isn't done during week one, sometimes it carries right on into the season. We already have our starter, the rest will fall in line throughout the next few weeks, not naming our 2nd and 3rd string QB's until the last week of preseason is not going to make or break our chances for this season. Again, I'll take Sparano at his word and use the way they've been practicing for the past few weeks as evidence that he's telling the truth.
Until Sparano comes out and states a depth chart (behind Pennington) in any order other then "seniority" then I will assume there is no real QB depth chart. He has explained the practice reps very good and simply stated that he knew what McCown and Beck could do and Henne, being the rookie, needs more reps. He in now way indicated Henne had moved ahead of either one of the other two. We still have 4 qb's on the roster and, until I am told otherwise from this staff, I will assume that the #2 ,or #3 & #4 job for that matter, has not been secured by either one of them.
Uh, thats just wrong. McCown had three games last year where hehis QB rating was over 90. Henne is a first year player that IMO, and in the opinion of others, seems to performing better than Beck.
You need to recheck your facts, partner. You are dead wrong. McCown has accomplished far more than Beck. Think before you post.
McCown and Henne have struggled as much in camp as Beck has. All three have had good days and bad days. Again, no one has distinguished themselves as better then the other, according to official reports from the coaching staff.
I was responding to the trail. Don't know how long it takes you to think before a post, my brain works instantly. McCown has a longer track record yes. But that track record is all bad, and one can make a reasonable conclusion. For some, a conclusion can be made for Beck already. For others, it hasn't. That's all I'm saying.
Umm....when speaking of what McCown has accompished so far in this camp, it's spot on. No player is going to get by on his past, he has to show it to this staff in order to make it. And if you go back and read the blogs, no QB has outperformed the others, they had their struggles and they all had their moments of good play. The Henne hype is base in part because he's a fresh face that the Miami fans (and some media members) can build up. Another example would be his statline and play during the Tampa game was almost identical to Beck's yet the fans here (and elsewhere) and some media sites have him penciled in already as our #2 and feel that he is ready to step in if Penny should go down. And that means nothing when it comes to him earning a spot on the roster. If his past had any impact on Parcells and Co.'s decision making, why did they bring Carter in and then sign Penny if McCown was supposed to be "the guy"? And truth be told, McCown's NFL career is nothing to be crowing about, he's average at best.
So. No FA who was signed in the FA has accomplished anything here. What does that mean and why does that matter?
But your response to my post was way out of context. I was saying that Beck hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL yet. If the FO wants someone that has, it should take McCown over Beck. You responded with some silly statement about me not being at practice, or the implication thereof. Thats just completely wrong. Thats all.
There have also been alot of FA's that come here, go to other teams that sign them to big contracts and never live up to thier contract. They got the deal to come based on past performance, as did McCown (probably the best out there at the time), but did not live up to it. McCown is not living up to his "starters" paycheck to come here at this point. He has not established himself better then a 2nd yr player or rookie. I think that is what we are saying. No matter what he did before. He has yet to prove anything here in Miami.
An "avg" QB is far better than what Beck has shown so far. So, if they want a backup QB who has shown he can play in this league, its McCown. If its someone they want to develop, its Beck. And, to me, Henne looked better than Beck Saturday. And I am not alone. Others have said as much.
I was correcting your exageration... the one you have been trying to worm out of the last couple posts.
In my mind, it comes down to the fact that a 7 year vet who has been average at best in his career couldn't put any distance between himself and 2 inexperienced QB's. If he can't outperform them, how does that make him better? We know what McCown brings to the NFL, he has a history and his history says that he isn't anything special and more than likely he has already peaked in terms of his talent. Beck and Henne on the otherhand are young QB's who have kept pace with the 7 year vet and who are still relative unknowns. They have yet to reach their potential and it doesn't make sense to get rid of either one so that you can carry an emergency QB who is average at best. If Pennington goes down, it's time to see what the kids can do. Other than a few people here, I haven't seen anyone say that Henne outplayed Beck. Again looks at the numbers, look at the differences in the defense that they were playing and look at the film, nowhere did Henne outperform Beck.
And if he's isn't any better then our 2nd year guy, or our rookie, I hope he never does. I'd rather develope the guys with more upside. (Purposedly left Beck and Henne's name out to re-enforce thier limited NFL Tenure and the fact that they still have alot for them to learn)
Dude, it was a trail. You made your statement, I was fine with it. like2god made another, then Stringer said, were you at practice? Stringers comment was made in order to disqualify l2g's because he wasn't at practice, I said l2g was there as much as you were. All I was saying, you had a right to your opinion, and so did l2g even though neither of you was at practice. Get it? Then I put in parentheses (unless you were at practice). So you can take your comment about my post being "silly" back. It was 100% serious.
I disagree with that part. Veterans and rookies or alsmost rookies arent being evaluated in the same light. With veterans its all about just learning the system and noone is worried about bad days or not. The only time that comes into play is with older vets or vets coming off injuries where you want to make sure they arent declining. With rookies and younger players its about proving they belong. McCown isnt anything to write home about but he's proven he can handle the reigns. Thats more then can be said for Beck. The problem for beck and he has maybe two weeks at most left to prove it, is he has to instill confidence that if an injury were to occur that we would have someone of McCown's ability minimally playing the position. Has he proven that he can be as good as McCown was last year? That is the question. And the truth is that is not that high a hurdle. McCown is tough, gritty and has the attitude you want but in terms of physical talent he really cant seem to get past the mark of mediocrity. Are you going to waste a spot on someone you arent even sure can be mediocre when there is a good chance that Pennington is going to be hurt and Henne is at least one year away from starting?
Not that this is what anyone wants to hear If you look back on a lot of QB's that checked down in their first year and were unsure of themselves and In a bad situation with a coach, like Beck. Let's look at one who had the same type of situation. His Name is Brett Favre. He was traded for a low pick and he turned out pretty good. Same size and weight as Beck and Both have a cannon arm. Under the tultage of Cam Cameron and company he regressed, it takes a while for a QB in this league to settle down. Look at the Qb's that were ones with rough first years and possibly released but turned it around. YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT Carson Palmer 2004 CIN 13 263 432 60.9 2897 6.7 18 76 18 77.3 Brett Favre 1991 ATL 2 0 5 0.00 0.0 0 0 2 0.0 Jeff Garcia 1999 SFO 13 225 375 60.0 2544 6.8 11 62 11 77.9 Jason Campbell 2006 WAS 7 110 207 53.1 1297 6.3 10 66 6 76.5 Matt Hasselbeck 1999 GNB 16 3 10 30.0 41 4.1 1 19 0 77.5 2000 GNB 16 10 19 52.6 104 5.5 1 27 0 86.3John Kitna 1997 SEA 3 31 45 68.9 371 8.2 1 61 2 82.7 Eli Manning 2004 NYG 9 95 197 48.2 1043 5.3 6 52 9 55.4 Drew Brees 2001 SDG 1 15 27 55.6 221 8.2 1 40 0 94.8 2002 SDG 16 320 526 60.8 3284 6.2 17 52 16 76.9 Phillip Rivers 2004 SDG 2 5 8 62.5 33 4.1 1 13 0 110.9 2005 SDG 2 12 22 54.5 115 5.2 0 22 1 50.4
We're apparently already wasting a roster spot on someone we aren't even sure can be healthy... No offense, but this has got to be the most ridiculous line of reasoning for keeping McCown over Beck. If the FO honestly believes that there is a "good chance that Pennington is going to be hurt," why the **** are they paying him the kind of money they are? Seriously. If the only reason to keep McCown is because Pennington is going to get hurt, someone made a ridiculously stupid move in FA. You play a vet to give your young guys some time to get better. Once the young guys are better, they take over the reigns. It's not rocket science. You don't give up on a player after five ****ty starts in one ****ty year on a ****ty team. ...and don't anyone dare tell me the Dolphins weren't a ****ty team last year, because, by all rights, we should have gone 0-16. The Ravens had us beat first in regulation and then again in OT. The FO showed that they have faith in Beck in two important ways, IMO. They kept him after showing Green and Lemon the door... ...and they picked Merling at #32 showing that, though they would have liked Chad at that point, they were okay enough with Beck and McCown to risk losing Henne in picks 33-56. Had Merling not fallen so far, perhaps they would have picked Henne here and this would be a moot point. McCown was brought in to provide a veteran QB. We now have a better veteran QB. No one expected the drama to unfold the way it did, otherwise McCown never would have been signed and we wouldn't be having this stupid conversation right now. The veteran has been replaced. We should keep the player with the most upside to provide us with a player for the future. IMO.