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Why You Should Believe in Matt Moore

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    LOL Ryan Fitzpatrick couldn't get that and he has over 25k yards and 164 TDs in his career. Matt Moore at 32, will garner a 20mm contract based on 3 games and a grand total of 5639 yards and 37 touch downs.

    Makes sense.
     
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  2. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I assure you I'm not a big enough loser in my life to ever create a troll account or participate in any trolling of anyone

    period
     
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  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If that happens, good for Moore.
     
  4. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Hoops, understand, you're only a troll if you disagree with the "3M Crew" (Matt Moore Musketeers)...just put them on ignore, and continue bringing good content to the board, it'll be much appreciated by the majority of this site, I promise.
     
  5. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair Key, But not with Moore's age. And I really don't see anything close to 20 mill. If he plays lights out, he will have earned a nice raise. BTW, Hoops is for sure not a troll, he is just someone with the highest opinion of RT around. While I do not agree with all his takes , he will support it with a well thought out argument.
     
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  6. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Those are sick defensive numbers. Can you imagine Aaron Rodger on that team. They would be going foe their 4th straight super bowl title
     
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  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not sure about 4th straight.. RW is real good too, but yeah Rodgers would have multiple SB wins.
     
  8. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Oh c'mon. I don't even put the TanneFluffer 5 on ignore.

    Simply don't reply back to people you don't want to talk to. Ain't that hard. But of course we have people in here who like to clutter threads with updates about their ignore lists. #NobodyCares.

    However, Hoops is being accused of trolling because in response to a big win and a damn good performance by Moore - he predicts he's going to throw 5 INT's the next time out. Literally his words, not mine. He's here to ruffle feathers of anyone who doesn't believe in Tannehill ..... interspersed with actual football knowledge.

    Here's a thought - don't like Moore? Don't believe in Moore? Then that person should go start a thread about it. Pretty easy solution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  9. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Sounds like there may be an easy solution there......hmmmmmmmmmmm.......OH YEAH!!!

     
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  10. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    We know how this all works. Moore had some of the element of surprise going for him because there wasn't really any film out on him playing in this offense. Still an impressive return given he had not started a game in 5 years and there are playoffs on the line.

    However, to expect him to carve up Buffalo or NE isn't realistic at this point. But he's more than capable of playing competitive ball and helping lead the team to the playoffs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  11. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I want that too. It's clear it's never gonna happen. I couldn't believe some of the stuff I read after I got home from my work holiday party and got to watch the game.
     
  12. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    This is the most logical thing in this thread for PAGES. This is what majority of everyone is saying. I hope Moore kills it, I am a fan of the logo only. The extremists one side of the coin and the other is what's so insufferable.
     
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  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Sounds like you haven't read the countless "Tannehill" threads here the past 5 years. And good for you, they are as extreme as they come.

    Key certainly has a very "Pro Moore" view of him, I do not necessarily agree with everything he say's on this topic...but he gave a well thought out summary of his opinion for better or worse and Matt backed him up Saturday. However once Matt has a bad game (inevitable) then I promise you this thread will get 20x worse.
     
  14. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Yes, he's paid to do that. But some of us also believe he could start in this league and do it for more than a couple of games. Just a fundamental difference of opinion.

    What I take issue with is some of the "Yeah, but ......" going on in this thread. Not you personally. The whole thing just comes off so salty.
     
  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Brace yourself for it.

    There was enough salt as it was during a huge win on the road - imagine if we lose a game with Moore starting. The "Yeah, but ....." will become "Told ya!" ...... which as always is a premature emotional assessment.
     
  16. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I haven't, I wasn't active for a while, got a job now where this site isn't firewalled, so I am back around some more.

    I have seen on twitter, facebook, reddit etc its on side vs another. Never just supporting our QB there is always disconnect. It's frustrating. So much in-fighting.
     
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  17. Sloopy

    Sloopy Member

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    The reason debates like these happen is because we're debating the inherently ambiguous. We're debating the play of two quarterbacks who have never sustained a level of play above average, who bounce back and forth between above average games and below average ones, but who never establish themselves as truly great or truly poor.

    Compare this debate to one that likely occurred on a New England Patriots' message board when Matt Cassel replaced Tom Brady.

    There were probably some viewpoints that Matt Cassel benefited from the Patriots' system, and others that Cassel was talented and would succeed elsewhere as well. But there were likely very few people who compared him favorably to Tom Brady, and those few individuals probably weren't responded to at length.

    These debates here go on at length because we're not debating X individual versus the likes of Tom Brady. We're debating two players who are roughly average. With average comes ambiguity, and with ambiguity comes debate.

    Everybody's right. When you aggregate all of these perspectives into one whole, you achieve a consensus that indicates "average," and that is the correct one.
     
  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That does nothing to why you had to bring up Ryan Tannehill and lump me into a group with others.

    I assume you're referring to Hoops with your last statement, and uh... quite frankly I believe you're wrong there. Maybe people just appreciate the posts, even if you don't? Why can't we just all agree to disagree :lol: It is what it is I guess.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't I bring up Tannehill when we're talking about a quarterback that "almost threw an interception"? If it's a valid point on Moore, then it's a valid point on RT as well. Yet somehow, you say one of those is a great conversation topic and the other shouldn't be mentioned....you're being a total hypocrite.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say anything about pro-rating....I simply said to go by the body of work we have to evaluate. By that standard, he's playing at a very high level. Why would you take offense to that? Why would anyone?

    As to your prior argument that the Jets aren't the same team we played a few months back, it's 100% invalid. This season they've beaten the Ravens and two of the worst teams in football. They've also been blown out four times- twice early and twice recently. The Jets have been consistently bad and it took special teams in our first matchup to steal the win. It was over in 3 quarters in this second contest though, so I'm not sure why you're twisting stats.

    The difference between the two contests is that we were a heck of a lot more efficient on both sides of the ball this time around.
     
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  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Ok so here we go...play by play...prefaced with the understanding that moore hasnt started a game in 5 years so some rust it to be expected

    Anyways lets get started

    *2nd and 5 12 personnel gray lined up off the los in a 3 point like an h back safety 5 yards off the los back foot his throws the sticks out route to gray placed front shoulder for 7 yard gain

    *3rd and 10 11 personnel starts motion with landry to id coverage revis follows but kind of drops not really giving away coverage pre snap moore gets moved laterally off the spot at the end of his drop away from the crosser landry ball thrown high too far out in front would not have converted anyways as 5 yard route and revis on landrys hip

    *1st and 10 11 personnel knows he has man coverage throws a flats at the los ball to sims balls high catches it over his head limits any rac lb darren lee in pretty good position either way no gain

    *3rd and 6 shotgun 11 personnel trips wr bottom side jets show gap blitz takes snap and from his first drop step is staring at his trips bottom side options finishes his drop throws the corner route to stills ball floats safety undercuts it lucky this wasnt picked...no head and eye discipline in his drop

    *3rd and 6 shotgun 11 personnel to wrs top side parker bottom side starts his drop stares at parker before he finishes his drop calvin pryor who is at depth down tbe seam on tbe inside route reads moores eyes and starts to flow laterally bottom side towards the parker route...moore shifts laterally as he should towards his intentions parker and throws a 12 yard in parker literally cuts right in front of pryor to make the catch...parker fires out of a cannon on the in cut

    Now im gonna give moore the benefit of the doubt here that he saw where pryor was pre snap and knew he couldnt make a play there on that ball but if pryor cuts in front of that instead of behind it hes got a shot at the ball...pryor should not be flowing over to make that window that tight if he has his head in the center of the field in his drop

    *1st and 10 12 personnel under center pa fakes the rb hand off lb level sucks up then tries to drop out finishes his drop and throws a strike stop route to landry between 3 defenders...i took issue with this play before i called it wrong...this is off pa theres nothing wrong with coming set and staring this one down...rifle throw up high between 3 converging defenders...decisive and ripped it up high over the lb level...10 yard gain

    *1st and 10 12 personnel gray motions across the formation lb follows indicating man...moore knows this...gray wins early in his stem has the lb stacked corner route moore finishes his drop climbs forward and releases a rainbow and unicorns dime to gray...beautiful throw nice climb the pocket and ball dead on

    *3rd and goal heavy package extra ot 2 tight ends off set i formation rolls out presses the los to give sims time to uncover throws a strike to the pylon td to sims

    *1st and 10 shotgun 12 personnel empty back field flexed quick out to gray for 2 yards

    *3rd and 8 shotgun 11 personnel moore spends a ton of time verifying protections takes his drop working a 2 wr top side stop route from the first step of his drop is looking top side at those options jets bring a no show lb loop and safety walk up blitz throws a stop route to stills tight coverage hit as he throws it ball high incomplete db all over stills...jets bring the blitz so no real threat there with the route being undercut but zero drop eye discipline...did know that he has to get it out although i dont think he ever knew the safety would come also which isnt to be expected of the qb there unless he shows it pre snap...deep middle safety here who doesnt impact the play is reading the qbs eyes

    *3rd and 9 11 personnel knows he has man coverage shot gun sets the protection well with ajayi on the bottom side show ss blitzer sees the walk up slot corner show blitz top side leaving the deep middle safety responsible for a man miami runs a top side vertical criss crosser where moore has both stills and dvp wide open...knows that he must account for the walk up slot blitzer unaccounted for by the protection given the #s and throws just prior to contact the deep ball to stills for the td...what i like most about this throw is instead of leading the wr over the top leaving a small catch window he throws it inside and away from tbe db where stills can track and run under it for tbe walk in td...well done matt...across the board

    *1st and 10 shotgun 11 personnel deep out by dvp where he presses the db in the vertical stem inside and looks like 2 deep coverage...pi called...good route by dvp good throw by moore

    *1st and 10 shotgun 11 personnel jail break throws it away called for intentional grounding as ball doesnt get back to tbe los

    Half

    Im gonna do these in halfs
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The only problem is, I said that in my original post here and you said it was ridiculous that the offense could perform better under Moore short-term. It's a shame that the statement is only logical now once you have no other way to describe what happened this weekend.
     
  23. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    No. You said we have a better chance going 3-0 with Moore than Tannehill. Which, IS ridiculous. Moore beat the Jets. Got 2 more games to go before you can say "I told you so" like your buddy is claiming others are doing...
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Know what's actually funny? I know a few posters on here who said Tannehill (or any QB) needed a little bit of help from the run game, oline, and coach to be successful. Tannehill gets those, and he, and the team, are successful. Others then try to downplay, and attribute the improvement only to Tannehill. Then, More comes in, throws 18 passes, and a few of us say, Great! Moore played well, and dug what he was supposed to...but got bailed out a couple times by a bad defense and some great plays by his receivers and his defense. It was a total team win. Then, the usual people who attribute wins to the QB, come in, and attribute the win to Moore, and all the credit goes to him.

    Then they erect strawmen, abs try to act like somehow we want Moore to do badly.

    Crazy pills.
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Not sure who these people are, but feel free to drop a few names for me.
     
  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    My first half take other than the head and eye discipline which will get you in trouble hes better with the setting up of protections than i expected
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this will help refresh your memory-

    It's the exact same thing you're now praising someone else for saying. Wouldn't it be easier to just admit you were wrong and apologize?
     
  28. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    2nd half

    *2nd and 6 shotgun 11 personnel stop route to dvp footwork is bad leaving him with no hip torque and all arm basically...ball floats high

    *3rd and 6 shotgun 11 personnel lolli pop deep ball to dvp underthrown by 7 yards int...dvp has tbe corner stacked thats a walk in td if he places it properly

    *1st and 10 under center 11 personnel pa to landry on a slot crosser landry does a good job to press the db in the stem big rac as landry makes a man miss redirecting 31 yards

    *1st and trips wr top side 11 personnel sims in line bottom side throws a lolli pop to sims working down tbe numbers sims does a good job to get physical with the lb late in tbe stem and dump him otherwise this balls heavily contested as it has too much loft

    *3rd and goal extra ot off set i 2 wrs williams motions from the i to the slot lb follows indicating man moore under center rolls out man covering sims plays it like its zone releases him moore goes from tbe flats primary to his secondary read hits sims td

    1st and 10 under center 11 personnel trips bottom side stills goes in motion corner follows indicating man 3 step hits landry front shoulder for rac 66 yard td...landry presses the hash after the catch which defeats the safeties angle...thats a smart wr setting up the safety to eliminate any angle right there

    *3rd and 13 shotgun 11 personnel feels wide pressure climbs forward jets play a drop out zone given the sticks ends up 2 yard sack...nothing wrong with that

    Doesnt throw another pass
     
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  29. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Kind of like how Moore had ONE good game and the guy comes back to this thread and says people owe him an apology....

    yep...the same fans of the same team ....who were also optimistic about Moore owe Keyfin an apology....

    Yet we're the bad guys in this thread. ****ing lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  30. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    You literally just said the same **** we all have been saying since the first page........

    Literally EVERY ONE OF US you are talking about have said nothing more than Moore is good, not great, and probably good enough to get us to the post season. THATS IT. No one has said they hated him, or hated Key, or anything along those lines. We pointed out the OP is ridiculous, which it is. There is no debate, you don't compare anything about Moore to someone like Manning or Brady without getting called out for it being nonsense. We can do that without disliking Key OR Matt Moore.

    I'd love to see one quote from anyone in this thread saying they hate moore, or anything else we're being accused of saying other than the OP is ridiculous. The finger-pointing has reached critical mass of stupidity.

    Aside from maybe 2-3 people here total, everyone here pretty much seems to agree that there is no debate here between the two QBs.
    RT is the better QB, No one in the NFL takes Moore over RT. Not a single soul.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  31. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Please quote? You're straight up making this up.

    Everyone here was happy about the win and that Moore and the rest of the team were succeeding.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  32. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    So Hoops sounds like you think he had a better game than you originally gave him credit for?

    2 bad balls instead of 3? (Which wasn't 20% to begin with) Unless you're counting the ball to Sims but you could argue, and I bet Moore would too, that he's throwing that ball 100/100 times to a big TE on a LB. NFL TEs make that play, "heavily contested" or not, every single game. Not bad for someone who hasn't really played in 5 years and according to most on here, limited NFL QB skills.

    I thought he did a good job adjusting protections, getting out of bad plays, and making the plays that were there to be made.

    I was disappointed on only three plays this game. The INT obviously was disappointing but the silver lining is the right read was made the throw just was piss poor, whether it was timing, footwork or whatever. Second was the corner that the safety knocked away. Third was the zone read that I thought Moore should have kept just for the lulz and to keep the defense honest.
     
  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The linebacker had that play snuffed out from the beginning. There was no shot of him running it into the endzone - I don't even think Tanny could've.
     
  34. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    No, it wasn't near the goal line. It was a simple zone read to Jay and the end crashed hard and tackled Jay for either no gain or a small loss. Moore had no intention of keeping it but from my view had a lot of room. Might have only gained a few yards but it woulda been fun.
     
  35. Runnincm

    Runnincm Active Member

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    How many dpis has tannehill drawn this year? Like none?
     
  36. Sloopy

    Sloopy Member

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    And this is a great analysis. Certainly there is a reason Matt Moore has never been a long-term starting quarterback, and eye discipline (leading to a relatively high frequency of interceptions) is a legitimate one to consider.

    Even in games in which Moore excels, the deficits on his part that have kept him from being a starter in the league are likely to show, and Hoops is honing in on one of them here.

    I agree that the game needs to unfold such that these weaknesses on Moore's part are mitigated. The defense needs to take it upon itself to keep the scoreboard close and keep Moore from having to shoulder the game.
     
  37. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The problem with indicting more for struggling eye discipline is his lack of experience playing under the same offense for prolonged periods of time in real live games.

    Hard to judge whether not its inexperience or a legitimate deficiency.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He should have kept it on that play. At least it would have made the defensive end be honest. It was the last time Miami called that play during the game.
     
  39. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Pluses for protections set ups, climbing the pocket at the end of his drop, the deep ball which i have always said was a plus of his, and for his decision making/pre snap reads which we used motion mostly to make easy coverage ids for him with.

    negatives for inconsistent foot work leading to errant throws and for lack of head and eye discipline

    There werent many come set pre snap and make checks at tbe los stuff with moore and i think that was smart of gase but as teams adjust to what moore likes and gase runs for him hes gonna have to check out or run plays into bad looks...

    Theres no doubt in my mind he benefits and is capable in a setting where he can work heavily off pa in the passing game...thats the best way to limit the lack of head and eye discipline

    As for that ball to sims the play call wants that thrown with loft...theres so much loft on this ball the 8 yards off the los strong safety pre snap can almost get back there...you dont want that...it worked out in the end but thats not how they draw it up

    We dont want to get into any must pass situations with the way guys read his eyes...thsts when it can get real ugly

    If the defense can limit the scoreboard vs buffalo i think we can stick with a pretty solid script
     
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  40. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No... it sounds more like you're just trying to change it to something about Tannehill, when the conversation was clearly about Matt Moore. There was ZERO reason to bring him up except for you to take a shot at the guy, and you've got the nerve to call another guy a troll. That's where these things get derailed and the unnecessary arguments begin.

    Again, I have no dog in this fight. I don't care. I just want to win games. Matt Moore is the guy who has to do that for us now, so he's got my support 100%, but you're damn right if I see something I don't like I'll point it out, or things I love. I've done that since the game. I've done that with Tannehill too this season. I just don't see the need at all to bring up Ryan, when we're discussing the game Saturday night, and some plays from Matt that had real chances for negative plays, but fortunately, they didn't. That's just... discussing it. Ryan Tannehill has nothing to do with it though, he was on the damn sidelines with a cast and crutches. lol

    That's the point I'm trying to make here, just because I may, or anyone else may criticize an element of his play Saturday, or a throw, or whatever... doesn't mean they're automatically hating on the guy because they love Ryan. It's just an observation of a play. Don't take it so personally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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