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Why the Ryan Tannehill era is over in Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finster, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    It's always interesting to see how a backup QB stacks up with a starter under similar conditions. Look at the impact Matt Cassell and Dak Prescott have had on QB discussions.

    I believe that Gase is a good enough QB-friendly coach that there are quite a few QBs who would've fared as well as Tannehill did this year with the same supporting cast and coaching staff. (Time will tell if a journeyman backup can play at that level.)

    That doesn't mean you move on from Tannehill though. He's a durable, athletic guy who is well-liked and who has proven that under Gase he can play at a high enough level. Why run the risk of missing on a replacement?
     
  2. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Man we're all dolfans, I don't wanna "Beef" with anyone on here, especially for silly reasons. Lets call it squashed, and I may take you up on it!!

    I am even closer than Charlotte, I am in Union County NC. My wife and son went to the joint practice last year in Spartanburg with the Panthers!
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Cool, my dad and I were there as well...it was a mad-house. I couldn't believe how many people showed up and darn near half of them were wearing Dolphins gear.

    I don't want to beef either though; just no sense in it when the team is playing this well.
     
    SICK likes this.
  4. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    If you judge a QB based on his INT rate I'm afraid for your blood pressure with Moore under center.

    Joke's aside, Tannehill's INT rate this year is one of the worst in the league. Not sure why, but the stats don't suggest there's any underlying reason. Perhaps the new offense is a reason.
     
  5. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So let me see if I got this right. Ross is a Tannehill fan, so much so that his first question to perspective coaches is "Would you start Tannehill in 2016". Ross also likes Gase from the start and even though Gase says he would work with Tannehill for some reason Ross changes his mind and ends up preferring a coach who doesn't meet his #1 criteria. Then after being persuaded by the FO to hire Gase, Ross goes on TV bragging about how this time he didn't listen to outside sources and went with his gut.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Gase has said in the media that he knew nothing about Tannehill when he took that first meeting. Because you have to remember, Gase was employed by another team and working 100 hours a week...it's not like he was sitting around the house watching YouTube. If I remember right, he was the 3rd or 4th interview because we had to get permission to even talk to him at that point.

    The part you said about Ross picking Gase on his own is complete bull****. Ross asked EVERYONE he knew about their opinion and he kept hearing that Gase was a future superstar. Ross has more special advisors than Obama so don't believe everything you read in the newspapers.

    But yes, Ross has always been a huge Tannehill fan and he wanted to see him start in 2016 with a complete offense around him. We got that around week 6 this season, so those questions are largely answered. You can win with RT. He can be a franchise QB. And that's all Ross wanted to know.
     
  7. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    More INTs is hardly a bad sign for Tannehill. I've said many times that it may even be a good sign, and that I wanted to see more. For years he was just too safe and conservative with the ball. I'd rather he take chances and sling it around a little. It's not like he's inaccurate (i.e. getting picked off because he consistently misses high).
     
  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    We are missing our 3rd and 4th rounders this year. I would like to give doughty another year and maybe in 2018 draft a late rounder. But for 2017 keep the picks for positions we need upgraded immediately
     
  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We have comp picks. I'd rather we had two 3s and 4s instead of one each plus Carroo. But I don't get a vote

    But we're gonna get comp picks. I think Vernon and Miller? Not sure.
     
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  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Agreed...couldn't figure out why they made that pick. If they weren't sure of Stills working out, why would you draft a different type WR, and trade picks for it?

    Without that trade, we'd have a trainload of good picks for 2017.
     
  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And there is a logjam at wr. Carroo might turn out to be great. I hope so. If we lose stills in FA and he kicks *** it'll make me feel better about those picks. Just didn't make sense at the time. Pick for Stills. Pick for Landry. Pick for Parker. Then those two.

    I would have kept Rishard too
     
  12. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, having the second best DT in the league sure worked out well for us against Baltimore's quick passing attack...
     
  13. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Wow..my unity speech got deleted...

    Bah humbug...grinches!
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't understand all those WR picks either....Carroo and Grant was overkill (although I love watching Grant explode when he has some room). So hopefully we have our WR squad for the next 3-5 years anyway; that's a huge benefit to the QB to be able to build that long-term chemistry.
     
  15. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    No it didnt..I posted it in another thread...Ive spent to much time in airports today..lol. ughhh
     
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  16. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Man, I miss Rishard. I think he's found a permanent home in TN. He's playing well this year.
     
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  17. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I feel Carroo may be our next Rishard, fan fave, doesnt get a lot of time, but when he does (injury etc) he shines and we lose him to a WR thin team....

    Which I guess is a good problem to have, if we keep Stills/Landry/Parker...and upgrade beside Sims....we will be stacked with young studs for a while!!
     
    Colmax likes this.
  18. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking along those lines with Caroo when I saw him, but he reminds me so much of Enunwa from the Jets. Just body-type, etc. I know he's not super tall, but he's broad, and from the looks of things, is tough to bring down.

    I kind of wonder if Caroo's issue is more upstairs or not practicing well. Even Caroo admitted that he needs to focus a bit more after that TD. We'll see. He looks like he has a little game.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    From what I've heard, he's a scrappy player like Landry that plays with a whole lot of emotion. It's hard to really say though since he hasn't got many opportunities this year.
     
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  20. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Would definitely like to see him more. But with our WR corps, it may not happen more than a handful of times this year.
     
  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Let me start by saying I like caroo and think we'll see how good he is next year. My guess with why he isn't playing is he doesn't run good routes consistently and has trouble with press coverage. He might also have a problem with knowing the playbook but that's just a guess. I think next year you'll see him running precise routes and he'll learn the technique for beating press coverage cleanly
     
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  22. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    He mentioned that he wasn't quite as, I think the term used was "prepared" when his number was called a few games back.
     
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  23. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can call BS on it all you want but that came straight from Ross on live TV. I find that a bit more credible than an unnamed source.

    You still haven't resolved the inconsistency in your version of the events. If Ross was so high on RT that he made it the #1 criteria in selecting a coach, how did he end up favoring a coach who said he couldn't work with RT?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? Gase hasn't worked with RT? He ended up being our coach because he was thought of as the best in the business developing quarterbacks. And he's done a great job so far.

    And I'm not even going to bother discussing the Ross angle. If you look at that guy and see a football mastermind that's smart enough to pick a coach on his own, then we really don't have anything to talk about.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're not understanding his question.

    You said Ross' #1 criteria for a HC was to work with Thill. But then you said Ross' first choice was someone who wouldn't work with Thill which is why he moved on to Gase. That is an inconsistency.
     
  26. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I never said Gase worked with RT before, I said he was willing to work with RT which met Ross' #1 criteria for a coach (according to your inside source). But then you said Ross preferred a different candidate who didn't meet this criteria of working with RT (again according to your inside source). So if Ross preferred a different coach but we ended up with Gase, it only stands to reason that someone else convinced Ross to hire Gase. Yet right after hiring him, before Gase even has a chance to do anything, Ross is running around telling the world that he made the decision and pulled the trigger quickly so Gase wouldn't get away.

    “I went more with my instincts,” Like in business,” Ross said. “If you find the right guy, why do you want to give a guy a chance for someone else to grab him?”

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...e-dolphins-head-coach/LQig0C3C6mzlIITFZo6NTP/

    So for your story to make sense, Ross has to be fickle, an egomaniac and a liar.
     
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  27. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    what a tough situation. Hard to see how tannehill is not the starter next year, he was clearly having a good season and showing improvement in many areas including pocket awareness, deep ball accuracy, and not taking the sack. he still has a lot to learn and room to improve but the guy is 26, on a decent contract and it will be interesting to see what he can do with an improved team next year.

    i really like the other posters idea of drafting a qb, since gase is the qb whisperer and looking to develop and trade. but for next season, i expect it to be tannehill starting, and moore backing up.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I looked it up since I couldn't remember, Armando says Gase was the 4th interviewed. Mike Smith, Mike Shanahan and Teryl Austin came first. I've already said that Ross wanted Gase because of his QB experience so I don't see what you mean...we're agreeing there.

    The only thing we are disagreeing on is that it was Ross's idea from the start- if he said that he didn't talk to anyone about their opinion, then he lied. Ross never stops asking people for their opinion and it's how we ended up with our last 3 coaches.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  29. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let me make this as simple as I can. Did Ross want Gase or did he prefer a different candidate?
     
  30. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    That Darth Vader facepalm picture is freakin' hilarious and appropriate.

    Tannehill was playing the best ball of his career and was VERY responsible for at least 3 recent wins.

    Let's see how Moore plays against a team that hasn't quit. Once Miami got up last week the Jets layed down and died. The Dolphins will be in a battle for as long as they can keep up, not the other way around this week. I just hope they can catch a break and stand on top at the end.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  31. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Could you name the DTs in the HoF?

    There's a big problem, DTs don't get into the HoF unless they put up crazy numbers, even for space eaters.

    Cortez Kennedy is one of the last 2 DTs to get in, he was a space eater, you couldn't move him off his spot with a double team, however, he also had 58 sacks, so dominant run defender who was also a very good pass rusher.

    W Sapp is the other, Suh is more like Sapp, except a scaled down version, at this point in Sapp's career he had 64.5 sacks and 13 FFs, numbers Suh will probably never reach, maybe in sacks, but never in FFs, and Sapp finished with 96.5 sacks, 19 FFs and 12 FRs, Sapp was also a very stout run defender.

    So, he was a dominant passrusher and a very good run stopper.

    Suh has 47 sacks, 2 FFs and 2 FR.

    Suh is a very good passrusher, but not dominant, and he's above avg vs the run, but his pursuit is better than his ability to eat space, he's not dominant in either aspect, and critically, does not create TOs, no way you get in the HoF like that, and he has yet to get a DPOY, and no chance at the HoF without that either.

    To get in the HoF, you have to be dominant, but especially at DT, because there are so few in, around 10, so, is Suh the best passrushing DT in the league?
    No, 2013 was the last time he was in the top 5 in sacks for DTs, and he was 5th.

    At the moment there are 3 DTs that are clearly better passrushers, Atkins, McCoy and Donald, and truth is, they're all better than Suh at holding the point of attack, and are all more lane disciplined than Suh, and imo, all better than Suh.

    Unless Suh starts to go on a tear where he's getting around 10 sacks a year and is creating a lot of TOs, he has absolutely no chance at the HoF, and he'll be 30 in a couple weeks.
     
  32. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    I feel like you just pick a few top players names and then say "yea, yea these guys are all better than Suh". I seriously doubt your comparisons have anything behind them.
     
  33. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Suh is the most dominant dt of his generation, Finster just doesn't like him and can't admit he's wrong. This will be his 4th first team all pro appearance, lol. Looking forward to the day he puts on that yellow jacket, then maybe some people will realize how wrong they were about him, but some will still not. Who cares anymore, anyone who knows football knows what a great player Suh is, Finster just likes stirring up s*** like saying Gase doesn't believe in tannehill when all Gase has done is support and defend tannehill from day 1, and especially supported him after the injury lmao.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  34. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    They obviously don't, just like his claims about tannehill. But hey, not everybody gets football, just look at all the fools on this site that say dumb a** s*** like Tanny couldn't carry Russell Wilson's jock strap. Tanny has had a better year, and there's about 10-15 other QBs who have had better or as good of a year as rw this year as well. But somehow rw is as elite as they come in some people's minds, even with his performances in the playoffs these last 2 years, go figure.
     
  35. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Just stop while you're ahead. It's pretty clear you're ready to play the adjustment game and hit us with a bunch of "yeah but's" or "What if Tanny had ...."

    It never ends when it comes to certain people trying to marginalize Wilson's play to make themselves feel better about Tanny's career to this point.
     
  36. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Lol, Finster thinks Atkins who is getting his 3rd all pro bid and Mccoy who is getting his 2nd are "easily better than suh" who is getting his 4th. I know u like his posts a lot, 2 peas in a pod if u ax me lol. Oh yea, and despite Cox's disappointing season he's "easily better than suh" as well lmao. Go find another team, this one's too good for u and Finster as well. May I recommend the filthadelphia iggles, ud fit right in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  37. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Finster is his own man - he can carry on his own arguments. For this Suh thing I haven't even gotten involved.

    I'm happy to hear you take time out of your day to track who's posts I like though. :up::chuckle:
     
  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    58 sacks in 153 games is "crazy numbers"? That's 0.379 sacks per game. Suh has 47 sacks in 108 games = 0.435 sacks per game. I'm guessing you'll say there should be separate standards for space eaters, which I agree is fair but that's not what the quote above implies.

    Either way, I personally don't think stats are the determining factor for DT's because you have relatively few ways to measure a DT's impact with stats compared to say a QB. To support this notion, note there are DT's with awesome stats that aren't in the HoF. For example Steve McMichael:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMiSt00.htm

    Guy had 95 sacks in 171 games started, which is 0.555 sacks per game. That's even better than Warren Sapp who has 96.5 sacks in 188 games started = 0.513 sacks per game. Actually this underestimates sacks per game for McMichael because the NFL only started recording them from 1982 so his first few years he has none.

    What about FF and FR? Well it's comparable: 14 FF and 17 FR for McMichael vs. 19 FF and 12 FR for Sapp. But McMichael blows Sapp away in tackles! 838 to 435 and in slightly fewer games, and yet he isn't in the HoF.

    So it's really not stats per se. It's what other players, coaches (Jim Caldwell said he thinks Suh is on the path to HoF) and even writers think that matters because you don't have good enough objective measures for DT's. btw.. at least for one ESPN writer Suh's chances are at 75% (just his opinion of course, but this is worth pointing out when someone claims Suh has essentially no shot at the HoF on his current trajectory): http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/pag...carolina-panthers-make-pro-football-hall-fame
     
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  39. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    And I'm happy Tanny has posted a career best 93.5 passer rating this year and has exposed all the idiots who s*** on him like u. That's pretty good considering Mr elite rw only has a 90 rating this year, a rod is 100 for comparison in a down year for him. He must not be elite like rw lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  40. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    No one needs to "track" you're very clearly attached at the...........hip
     
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