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I think Vance Jospeh is over his head

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    It's not even a debate. Your clearly a VJ boy. Our defense was 25th last year and now 30th this year. We are lucky to be in the playoffs and partly due to Gase and a easy schedule. Last year we gave up an average of 126 rushing yards per game and this year it is 141 ypg. VJ is the problem and needs to GO! It's real easy to see when you look at his resume. Hiring VJ was like putting a janitor as a VP. His only accomplishment is failing up.
     
  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    VJ Boy? OK, so, we're done here because you're incapable of having a conversation without being a child, and clearly not willing to look at anything outside of your over-reaction, over emotional opinion, or you're just looking to troll or something. Because, seriously, if you're going to blame the DC for our defensive regression this year, and not the actual things going on like talent, or lack thereof and injuries, then really, you're just here to be a broken record and stir the pot. So, enjoy your evening.
     
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  3. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Gotta love the 1st knee jerk reactions of 2017.
     
  4. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    Lmao, you seriously call yourself a Dolphins fan? Do you realize that this is our worst defensive performance in over 15 years? You are clearly butt hurt because VJ is garbage and I'm calling him out. Miami will never be a contender with VJ as the DC. Denver will be doing us a favor by taking this guy. Hell, I would rather have Rex as the DC. You clearly don't understand that the responsibility starts with the top.
     
  5. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    We'll see next week when Pitt R4PES our defense. Our only chance is to hurt Ben.
     
  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sigh... I couldn't care less who the DC is actually. I have no attachments to Vance Joseph whatsoever.

    I'm simply pointing out, that your assessment of the situation in my opinion... is ridiculous, because you aren't even willing to consider the circumstances. No matter how many times they've been pointed out, your only conclusion is... VJ is a bum... and you resort to childish rants and over reactions after that. So, there's just nothing here to discuss with you, so I'm just going to put you on ignore and move on since you clearly just want to rant nonsensically. I just don't see the point in paying attention to that stuff. Have a good one.
     
  7. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

    ^^^ educate yourself on our defensive rankings. Even with all the coaching turmoil last year, we had a better defense. If we have even a top 20 defense this year, we may have won a few more games.
     
  8. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    That doesn't make any sense and isn't a valid comparison.
     
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  9. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I have never seen one great Defensive Coordinator who did not have the horses to be a great defense. Do you honestly see who we have on the field at times on defense? Im not entirely thrilled with all that Joseph has done but we have maybe 5-6 guys on defense who can actually play. We are hurting talent wise on defense
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The outcome of a game is determined by "points scored" vs. "points allowed", not "yards gained" vs. "yards allowed". So we do have a top 20 defense where it matters most. Having said that I do agree the defense (especially run defense) is a concern, and it was so even before the injuries.
     
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  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The defense wasn't good even when we had all the starters. The wide 9 is not working at all, it doesnt fit our personell teams are basically doing whatever they want up the middle of the field both running and passing.

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    At least we know what to prioritize during the offseason: LB's.
     
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  13. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    How do we report posts on this new site theme?
     
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  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    People who look at yards allowed instead of points allowed are lost. Yes, we give up a **** ton of yards. I'm aware. But we're middle of the road in points allowed and top of the league in 3rd down defense.

    Ripping Vance Joseph is the fan overreaction du jour but considering the lack of talent at linebacker, and the injuries we've faced, he's done a fine job. Yes, the defense needs to get better but that happens by adding more talent and getting healthy.

    There's a reason why Vance is highly regarded around the league.
     
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  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yards allowed are very important. Giving up alot of yards means the defense is on the field longer, and our offense is on the field less. We have lost the time of posession more times than not. The defense being on the field longer also means they will be more tired and banged up at the end of games and at the end of the season. Which is exactly what has happened. If you allow a team to drivethe ball 70 yards down the field almost every drive, even if you hold them to a field goal or get turnover in the redzone it tires out your defense and doesnt allow your offense to get on the field and get in rhythm.

    Getting considered for a head coaching job is not an indicator of a great coach. There have been plenty mediocre coaches who have beem given hc jobs in the NFL. The dolphins should know since they have hired quite a few of those as head coaches, cam cameron and joe philbin just off the top of my head. What has Vance actually accomplished as a coach? He has never been an integral part of a top rated defense. Just because people throw around his name doesn't mean he has actually done anything.

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yards allowed might seem "very" important for the reasons you mention but it really isn't when you look at correlation to win percentage. In some years that correlation is near zero and in general you'll get less than 0.15.

    So relative to other factors (e.g. 3rd down percentage, efficiency stats like Y/A or especially anything dealing directly with points like red zone percentage or points allowed, etc..) yards allowed isn't that important.
     
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  17. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, ask yourselves this: "How many teams would our current starter be the starter on their team?"

    Rambo - 0-3 teams
    Thomas - 5 teams
    Lippett - 5 - 8 teams
    Maxwell - 17 teams
    Hewitt - 0 teams
    Kiko - 25 teams
    Butler - 3~ teams
    Wake - 28 teams
    Such - 31 teams
    Phillips - 13 - 17 teams
    Branch - 10-12 teams

    The talent just isn't there to blame Joseph.
     
  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I did it, and not only did it feel great, it improved my mood by 3000 times. There's too much nonsense in here right now for a team that's headed to the playoffs, when most of us here would have predicted 6-8 wins.
     
  19. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yds allowed is not as important as some other things, like points allowed, which is by a long shot, the most important, but to say yds allowed isn't important is false.

    The proof for that is simple, how often are teams at the bottom of the league in yds, and at the top in points allowed?

    This year, there is one team in the bottom 3rd in yds(24th), and also in the top 3rd in points(7th), KC, last year there were none, so thats 1 out of 20 in the past 2 years, and if you keep going back, that ratio will just get worse.

    Correlating wins to yds against is a non sequitur, because you leave out half the equation, you also need offense to win.
     
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  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah so we're clear I'm only saying yards allowed is relatively speaking not as important as some other stats. My initial post #90 here wouldn't make sense if I was implying yards allowed was unimportant because I explicitly said I'm also concerned about the (run) defense giving up that many yards.

    Either way, correlations are good measures of the relative importance of different stats so it's not a non-sequitur (quite the opposite.. for example the correlation for points allowed is often near -0.75 which is huge even though the other "half" of the equation - offensive scoring - is missing).

    By the way.. the (absolute value of the) correlation for rush yards allowed is higher than for pass yards allowed, so that suggests having a good run defense is more important when measured by yards allowed. However.. the opposite is true if you go by efficiency. By a huge margin, the correlation for rush Y/C allowed is much lower (near zero) compared to passing Y/A.

    So you want a defense that limits total rush yards while limiting passing efficiency. How you do that I don't know.. but that's what the stats suggest (I should add though that teams run more when they're ahead, so the goal may be to design the defense more against pass efficiency than rush yards).
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
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  21. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Yards may not correlate well to win percentage but at the same time I doubt many top defensive coordinators have been ranked 30th or worse in yards allowed very often, if ever. 31st in rushing yards per attempt. 30th in rushing yards allowed. The d-line is ranked 31st in adjusted sacks. We are 6th in turnovers which could be attributed to coaching, but its more likely variance. And his best stat is we're 10th in NY/A in the passing game.

    The offense deserves a bit of the blame too being ranked 32nd in plays per drive and 28th in time per drive, which helps give the opposing offense more opportunity to gain yards, score points, and even turn the ball back over to us.
     
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  22. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Assuming that happens, exactly what do you expect from a defense that clearly is ripped apart by injuries? Stop the next man up **** because this team doesn't have that depth.
     
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  23. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Of course I want a win against the Steelers, but if we lose it won't be the end of the world for me. Our team and our coaches have exceeded my expectations this year. The injuries have taken it's toll, but we were able to still get on a roll. We have a lot of holes to fill, especially on defense, so I am hoping for a great off-season and draft. The arrow is pointing up and there is a lot to look forward too! I won't let somebody poo pooing VJ ruin it for me. I am just to damn happy with our progress. It's been a long time coming!
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, the defense just doesn't have enough quality players. I don't think it matters what scheme we're running, we just have backups starting on probably half our defense.
     
  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Last year the Dolphins were ranked 19th. Before yesterdays game we were 14th with half the defense either hurt or rookies.

    (And just to throw a prop in for Gase, last year the Dolphins had the 27th ranked offense and this year it's 17th.)

    Getting rid of VJ would be one of the biggest blunders the Dolphins could make this offseason. He has literally made chicken salad out of chicken ****.
     
  26. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I know our defense has struggled at times this year but lets not forget that we have 5 starters missing. Not to mention we came into this season knowing that we were weak at LB and CB. Any time you have to rely on backups to that level, assignments are going to be missed and you will see the drop off in talent.

    If anything I'm optimistic about several things:
    1) Getting Jones and IAQ will make our secondary much better
    2) Lippett and Howard have show some signs of brilliance. I'm optimistic about this position with another year of development
    3) Alonso played at a pretty high level.
    4) If we address LB in the draft and/or free agency and get guys healthy again, there's no reason this defense can't be top 10
     
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  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I agree 100%.

    Not to mention getting a season under their belt in a new system.
     
  28. hatchettjack

    hatchettjack Member

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    Hopefully Joseph will be denvers problem next year!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  29. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    I don't understand why the middle of the field was swiss cheese. The Patriots, at least from what I saw in the first half, we're carving us up right through the middle of the field. All their run plays were up the gut and that was so effective that the play-action was totally devastating.
    If Suh and Jordan Phillips are there then I don't get why that's so effective against us. Having Rehad would help a little bit but, man, if that's on our linebackers to shed blocks better and help out the interior line then we are so incredibly bereft of talent there. Man!
    That has been the biggest surprise to me: We're failing 'Football 101'. Stop the MF'ing run! Stop the run. Football 101. Stop the run.
    FFFFFF

    100% laughable that any DC that fails Football 101 would be considered for any position other than ball-boy.
     
  30. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    and, yeah, I'm probably giving Jordan Phillips too much credit. Sometimes he looks good but he can't be that good, overall, if he's just getting swallowed up so often.
     
  31. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    They are 18th this season. They had injuries last year too. And probably every year.
     
  32. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Correct, we lost cam for most of the season last year. Not to mention this years defense is actually more talented than last years.

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
  33. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    So much was wrong with the team last year. Whenever coaches are fired during the season, you can really expect much, yet they still played better defensively.


    Yards allowed is extremely important, especially rushing yards. Allowing 141 rushing ypg, how do you expect a team to be successful? That makes that your defense is going to be on the field longer than your offense. It also means that your defense is going to be tired in the second half. VJ's coaching scheme doesn't fit this team. A real DC would have changed his scheme to fit the lack of talent. VJ isn't nearly as good as his fan club indicates. Out of all the HC candidates, his resume looks like someone who's onky experience is working at McDonald's. VJ is a bum, I'm calling it now...even if they have zero injuries and they keep VJ, Miami will have a below 25th ranked defense next year.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sure every year there's injuries.

    But I can't remember a year when our entire starting secondary was out. Let alone the injuries to the LB corps.
     
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  35. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    I don't think any of y'all casting aspersions against Joseph are recalling just how the Defense (and the whole team) played the first part of last year. You can't slap some lipstick, rouge, powder and prayer on a D which look like the the Hippopotamuses from the Oulde Fantasia doing the Dance of the Flowers on ice and going downfield backwards last year - and (absent wonders, magic, and skullduggery) expect to see wonders this year. Wishing a coach gone who has contributed toward changing the D - which would have been complimented to be called porous last year - to at least a D which could manage to slow down some of the better teams once in a while is contraindicated here!!

    This team has not put a "Good" D on the field in years - probably back around 2006-7 or so. One of the tricks is to be able to keep a DC around long enough to get people to actually play the D he has designed so that it can become effective. [Nice trick if you can do it!]
    When one is stuck with last years flops, failures, and retreads and not enough others to actually work in a chosen scheme - **it happens!
    And now we have a lot of folks hoping the same things happens this coming year so we can continue to whine, groan, complain, vetch, gripe, piss and moan about our "Horrible" defense AGAIN!

    Continuity works wonders (if the proper pieces are in place) in team activities - whether on the field, in combat, or conducting business. This team has about the same propensity toward that as the rest of the losers in the league - 3 years max, if that. The league right now, aside from a very few teams is acting like a pack of hyenas in heat. It takes three years to begin the process of turning a team around, and that is IF you have the right head coach, GM, and owner. (There are times I think we have not had any of the three!!!) Quite possibly, we appear, that is, APPEAR, to have two of the three, and perhaps 2 1/2 of the three - depending on who gets the wild hair up the tukkis and when.
    Having folks on here advocating with almost hysterical typing calling for a quick change to be initiated by us NOW is just ridiculous - and contributes to the depiction of the team as a bunch of hysterical loonies gathered on a barrel float headed for Victoria Falls. Ecce coram exiliens
     
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  36. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    I'm curious to see who is on the VJ fan club after our defense looks the same next year. I looked at all of the HC candidates this morning...VJ doesn't make the list and has a pathetic resume compared to the HC candidates. Next year our defense will be ranked 26-29 at best. It is extremely unfortunate.
     
  37. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Big ships turn slowly.
     
  38. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I find it hilarious that the OP can't even spell Vance's last name correctly, but is smart enough to claim that he's in "over his head".
     
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  39. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    It's about as hilarious as people thinking VJ is a good coach and a HC candidate....lmfao! I'd love to see the VJ HC train wreck.
     
  40. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    So many harsh opinions on a coordinator who's working with a LB unit that consists of Kiko Alonso, Neville Hewitt, Mike Hull, Donald Butler, and Spencer Paysinger. And without their stud safety since week 6. Also an old defensive line.

    The defense has a ton of holes.
     
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