To actually calculate a correlation, I'd first need a list of "good coaches" etc.. But I will point out that there have been teams that you'd generally say have good/great coaches, had success that year, and had terrible defenses from a yards allowed standpoint but were much better from a points allowed standpoint (so it's not just that the defense was bad despite good coaching). For example.. NE lost the SB in 2011 with the 31st ranked defense from a yards allowed standpoint, but were 15th in points allowed. NE won the SB in 2001 with the 24th ranked defense from a yards allowed standpoint, but were 6th in points allowed. Both were with Belichick of course. Other examples: Dolphins in 1984 lost the SB with a 19th ranked defense by yards allowed but 7th by points allowed. Dolphins in 1978 lost the WC with the 23rd ranked defense by yards allowed but 6th by points allowed. Both with Shula. And with the exception of 1976, Dolphins were always top 10 in points allowed from 1966-1984, so it's not something traceable to Arnsparger leaving or so (he just made a good defense great). Another example with Landry: Dallas in 1981 had the 20th ranked defense by yards allowed but 7th by points allowed and lost the NFC conference championship. Not saying this is the norm.. I'm sure good defensive coaches tend to have higher metrics on both (though I'd bet it's on average higher with points allowed), but it's not always the case you can say a good coach has a good defense from a yards allowed standpoint even when the defense is good from a points allowed standpoint.
He wasn't refering to gase, he was saying Vance reminds him of Sparano. Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
Idk what the coaching was like, but Joseph was given a terrible defense. The DB's were bad, the LB's were legitimately Kiko and nothing but practice squad talent guys, and we have no DL who could stop the run. We need 2-3 more starting capable linebackers (no offense but Kiko isnt very good as you might think), a DT capable of filling Suh's counterpart and a quality run stuffer, and more quality depth. I know "quality depth" is kind of a myth in this day and age, but for some reason the dolphins injuries/lack of depth hurts them more than any team we ever play. The patriots can trade away an all pro and get away with a lack of depth, but the dolphins are seemingly the only team who continually gets abused because of the guys who are out on a week to week basis. Number one move is to draft another LB playmaker in the first round, sign/draft another DT/DE for run stuffing, and sign/draft quality depth for the DB. We might need another addition in the secondary for depth because no team can get away with the lack of depth we have. But we have the key positions filled defensively. we got exposed today due to a lack of depth and 7 starters missing off a defense that wasnt good to begin with.
I don't know why we're talking about yardage when you can see a pretty much exactly average points allowed. Well, I mean I guess I do know why- people who are working backwards from an opinion rather than evidence seizing on pretty much the one thing they can. It's not like we watched a team lose a bunch of 20-3 score games because they weren't any sort of thread offensively and teams could sit on any sort of lead they ended up with.
Sure, keep making excuses, now you are trying to say this loss was the offenses fualt? The offense was the least of the problems. The offense was moving the ball well all day if not for a few costly mistakes they would have scored at least 20-27 points. The defense on the other hand was giving up touchdowns on almost every posession in the first half the only good play they had was Roethlisberger gifting us an interception with a bad throw. Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
Please pay attention- I'm saying it's NOT like the offense was bad enough the defenses point scored was artificially deflated. The original question stands- why are we talking about yardage and not point scored?
If any of you Joseph haters think you can do a better job, there will likely be a DC position opening up for the Dolphins real soon. Because he is likely to be getting a head coaching job in the next week. Of course if you take the job, you will be required to use the same players on defense Joseph has been stuck with the last few weeks. Then we can see how effective you are at getting better play out of a group of players, in which half of them should be doing something else besides playing football in the NFL.
Smh. People are really getting on Vance when our defense was in pieces? We don't have BOTH of our starting safeties, didn't have our one of starting DBs, and we basically didn't have BOTH of our OLBS(Yes, Jenkins played but he was hurt and was very ineffective.). What did you want Vance to do with all of that missing against one of the top offenses in the league?
If anyone can't see how well VJ did today with adjustments they need to stop watching football. The Dolphins' defense is depleted. The Steelers came out and kicked their butt for the first 15 minutes. VJ adjusted and if not for three backbreaking turnover by the offense, had a chance of beating the Steelers. By all rights the score should have been 20-13 at halftime. And tied 5 minutes into the 3rd quarter. This game is about adjustments. Gase and VJ are MASTERS at adjusting. The players have to execute, however. If VJ leaves this offseason, I'll be happy for him, but it will be a setback for the Dolphins.
During 1 drive, 10 plays, all runs out of the same formation, 77 yards and a TD. Right, keep on telling yourself that.
Or maybe you watched the wrong game today. Our defense lost this game long before Moore started turning it over. Hell, the Steelers put up 219 yards in the first quarter. It looked like they actually dialed it back in the second half. VJ is garbage and should be fired tomorrow. The Steelers drive that consisted of all Bell runs out of the same formation sums up VJ's coaching ability. That was flat out embarrassing. I can't believe anyone still backs this bum.
The Dolphins defense has ignored gap assignments and over pursued all season long. Yesterday, Bell would make a cut, then basically stop, and wait for the defense to over pursue, then go to the space they just vacated. Not sure how that's on Vance when players refuse play where they're supposed to play.
Hate to break it to you guys, but the best coach in the world would have had their defense get their *** kicked yesterday. Our defense towards the end of the year was hot garbage. We had backups starting at 2 LB positions, 1 CB, and 2 safeties, and our defense wasnt great to begin with anyway.
The defense gave up 20 points in the 1st quarter (scored 3rd TD in first 2 min of 2nd quarter). Two of those TD's were 50+ yard TD passes. Then the Dolphins defense adjusted and gave up 10 points there on out (even with the offense putting them in bad field position because of turnovers) and held Pittsburgh to ~150 yards for the rest of the game. (Ben had about 50 yards passing in quarters 2-4 and Pittsburgh had about 70 yards rushing in that same period of time.) Even with how bad the defense played in the 1st quarter, the Dolphins had a chance to be down by 1 score at halftime...but...Moore turned the ball over. Then, the offense comes out in the 2nd half, starts moving the ball well...but...another Moore turnover. No one is trying to say that the defense played great. However, they did enough, even with half of them being back-ups, to give them a chance to win. The offense, no blocking, no rushing, and being careless with the ball, lost this game.
Under the circumstances, a large portion of the blame falls squarely on the defense. Really no surprise. They played pretty much the same way over the last few weeks. Really gave us a remote chance to win that game yesterday. Now, we did have chances on offense to make it a game...and we threw them away. But even cutting it to 11 or 7 before and after the half, anyone confident we had an answer on D to stop them? Ben threw 6 passes the entire second half..6. I think that number changes if we get back into that game, then its back to trying to defend the run and pass....and we showed early in the game that we could not. Reminded me a lot of the Baltimore game. We had chances to get back into that game, but the way the defense played, really gave us no chance.
I agree that the defense put them into a hole. However, they tightened up and if not for the turnovers and lack of running holes I think they had a real shot at winning that game. IMO, O-line and Moore's lack of ball control lost them that game. Also, the Steelers only ran 18 plays the entire 2nd half because the defense was able to get them off of the field. If the offense had not of turned the ball over the score would have been a lot different.
I don't think they had a shot of winning that game. I think getting points, instead of the Moore fumbles, would have made it interesting. Pittsburgh's D really took it to us in the run . We were certainly not up to the task of competing up front with them on both sides of the ball. Would I have loved to make that a better game by converting points instead of turnovers...sure. But or D was never going to let us catch up...chasing points is not our strength
If they don't fumble at the end of the 2nd quarter (inside Pitt's 20 yard line and after the defense intercepts Ben) they could have been down only 7. If they don't fumble on the opening drive of the 2nd half (inside Pitt's 35) they could have tied the game. Even if they only get 2 FG's they're down only 8 points.
Totally agree. Disappointing for sure. Just don't see how we would've stopped Pitt. at all the rest of the way. Any points before or after the half would have changed the complexity of that game . And at the least, made it incredibly more entertaining
It's inevitable that some will. I'm sure some here still don't like Gase but won't say anything because he's so popular. VJ is a very good DC. He's proven that this year by winning 10 games with a new team and scrubs.
The defense wasnt gonna let us win this one. Its a joke to think otherwise. Not enough talent on D and too much talent on Pitt. Offense wasn't great but they also weren't the reason we lost. The D was atrocious
And yet the defense gave the offense the opportunity to tie the game at the beginning of the 2nd half.
I think there are certainly upgrades available, Wade Phillips and Gus Bradley for example. Tomsula is a guy I'd love to bring in as DL coach, I never liked the Terrell Williams hire to begin with.
I saw on PFT that our linebackers coach Matt Burke is likely to get the job should VJ choose to leave.
Anybody who thinks Vance Joseph is a good coach is just misguided, plain and simple. A moron. I'm sick and tired of people blaming injuries and this and that. A great DC makes do with what he has. A terrible DC has a terrible defense with injured players, and that's just what VC did. And you clowns want him back??!!!! LMAO!! You guys are hilarious. And even better yet, there are GM's out there are stupid enough to hire VC as head COACH??!!!!!!! BWAAAHAAAA!!!! VC is worst than Tom Olivadotti ever was, and I didn't think that was possible!! Open your eyes. Just like with Tanneclown, excuses excuses excuses. This season was a failure. A one and done whooping in the wildcard round is not a successful season. It is a failure of a season. As a diehard fan, I deserve nothing but excellence.
I would bet my life that if Tannehill had the exact same performance you would not say the same thing. You would be talking about his 98 passer rating, the 5 sacks and the defense giving up 3 long drives in the first quarter.
Chicken salad out of chicken sh**??!!!!! We had the worst defense in FRANCHISE HISTORY!!!! LMAO!!! The WORST!!! I don't know where you get your chickens, but I think you've contracted salmonella in the brain. He's an embarrassment and should be fired. In fact, the Dolphins should sue him for his salary back.
I forgot how many people are headline readers and take everything at face value. You're right and NFL executives are wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because it's how conversations work. This is a thread about Vance and the defense. The Dolphins just lost a game, so that comes into the conversation. Thus, normal people aren't gong to start a new thread, when it fits with this thread, discussing the loss.
NFL executives thought Philbin, Lazor, Cameron and Saban could be NFL HCs....we see how that turned out. I could list so many more but it would take forever to list all of the horrible coaches. VJ will be on that list.
1. A team, expected to go 8-8, instead wins 10 haves and makes the playoffs, abs you call the season a failure? GTFO. 2. You "deserve" nothing. Again, GTFO with this entitlement mentality.
I'll say this much about VJ - he is excellent at adjustments. Weren't they also one of the top defenses as far as third downs? I'm assuming he's a personality guy and very player-friendly based on what I could see during games. His downfall is the notoriously slow starts for that unit. That is huge though - as you don't want to put your offense behind the gun almost every week.
