1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Cowboys possibly interested in Beck

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CrunchTime, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    No. Not multiquoting.

    And I don't deify the front office. I just have to choose whether to trust rank amateurs on a message board or paid professionals who have a successful track record of turning teams around. Its an easy choice, really.
     
  2. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Uh...I don't think Cam Cameron is going to get to make those decisions anymore...EVER.

    You don't get hired again after 1-15. He can only take what his FO gave him. And the FO gave him a first round pick in Joe Flacco.
     
  3. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Exactly. :up:
     
  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    You made a litmus test for wisdom of moves. the test is, if the FO does it, it makes sense.

    This FO is not that infallible. You dn't have to choose between us and the FO. We're not competing with the FO. But your original post blindly follows their every move.
     
    like2god likes this.
  5. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    WTH does this even mean?

    All I have said is that if I have to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who posts on the boards or someone who has proven to turn NFL franchises around, I'll support the latter.

    Why is that hard to understand?
     
  6. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Your opinion, and your opinion is wrong.
    So obviously Cameron does have some input on personnel decisions.

    100% Wrong, see above

    So if that's the case, why don't you agree with Cam's evaluation of Beck? Cam is known as a QB guru (a title his peers gave him) and his opinion was that Beck had what it takes to succeed in the NFL. Why doesn't his opinion matter? Why don't the opinions of Martz, Wolf, Ireland, Young, and Jaws matter? They don't post here and they are known as some of the best in the business. If you say "Well Parcells and Ireland are the ones making decisions" I'll point out that Ireland said that when he was with the Cowboys they had a high opinion of Beck.

    Point being, yes the people who get payed to make these decisions know more than us and I don't know of anyone that would disagree with that, but that doesn't mean that they are always 100% correct. Parcells has made mistakes in the past and he isn't immune to making more in the future. The opinion that Beck has the ability to make it in the NFL is not ours and ours alone, people who are known for their ability to find and groom NFL talent agree.
     
    Larryfinfan, keypusher and Dolfan13 like this.
  7. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    I'll put Parcells' reputation for rebuilding teams vs any of those guys you listed.

    I never said they were 100% correct. So whats your point?

    Parcells has made mistakes, certainly. Anyone who is in this business for as long as he has been will make mistakes; again, so what? His bottom line is that he has taken four teams to the playoffs. How's Cam Cameron done as a head coach again?

    I don't know why you are so adamant about defending Beck...esp to me. I hope we keep him and have said so repeatedly. But, if the coaching staff determines that he can't make it in this league, I am going to support that decision more than I am the emotional attachments of the posters on the message boards. That is, and has always been, the bottom line.

    We'll see if they are correct or not on Beck in time. Lets hope it works for us.
     
  8. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

    9,545
    5,217
    113
    Dec 4, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    I just don't see how we get anything for either QB. Everyone knows we are going to drop one eventually. Unless they are desperate to get a guy in to learn the offense prior to the start of the season . . . or they fear that another team has their eyes on the guy they are targeting. Those are the two scenarios that might work in our favor. But overall, I feel like we would be lucky to get a 6th or 7th.
     
  9. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    You would put Parcells over Ron Wolf? Seriously?

    Ron Wolf helped to construct the Raiders teams of the 70's and 80's. In between he was the GM of the Bucs and took them to the NFC Championship game in their 4th year of existence, that's pretty significant. Then he goes to Green Bay and completely turns that team around, trades for Brett Favre and wins another SB. The guy is head and shoulders better than Parcells in the personnel department, it's not even close. Parcells is more effective as a coach than he is in the FO. Wolf is known as one of the best personnel guys ever in the NFL.

    BTW Wolf believes that Beck has what it takes to make it in the NFL

    This has nothing to do with Parcells (or Cameron's :rolleyes:) ability as a headcoach, it has to do with his talent as a talent evaluator. Is he good? Yes, but his biggest impact has been as a coach. George Young was responsible for building the NY Giants teams of the 80's, not Parcells. And Parcells didn't have total say in New England, that's the main reason he bolted NE for the Jets. I'm glad Parcells is here and I hope that he can take us to the next level, but lets not get carried away by overstating his accomplishments.

    Cam was a part of the conversation earlier where you and Stringer said that he'll never have another say in player personnel, but he already does and I pointed that out. Nowhere did I compare Cam as a HC to Parcells as a HC, so to bring that up is silly.

    Because you keep stating that Beck has been outplayed by McCown and Henne when that hasn't been the case and you keep saying that he's only qualified to be a backup even though it takes time for players to develop and Beck has only been in the league for a year. If anyone thinks that they can make an honest evaluation of a player in such a short time then they are fooling themselves. Giving up on players before you know what you have is a great way to ruin a team. I respect your right to have an opinion, but you have to realize that this is an open forum and if someone disagrees with you that they will respond to your posts.

    And the people who want to see this team develop their players are not guilty of having an emotional attachment to Beck or any other player, they want this team to be thorough and not piss away talent or draft picks. I'll be the first person to speak out next year if Henne is being tossed aside by the fans and the media without being able to show what he's capable of, this isn't just about Beck.

    I hope it does, we're all Dolphins fans at the end of the day. :hi5:
     
  10. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Re: Ron Wolf. Isn't he the one who traded for Favre who apparently ATL decided at the time was not worth keeping ...
     
  11. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Yup, he was with the Jets and they had Favre rated as the best player on their draft board. They tried trading up and weren't successful and Atlanta ended up drafting him. From what I've read about reports at the time, the Falcons didn't like Favre and thought he was a playboy that drank too much. Glanville even went as far as saying that it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre in the lineup. When Wolf went to GB one of the first things he did was acquire Favre.

    For the people that want to toss Beck to the side, Favre's first pass in the NFL was intercepted for a TD and he only attemtped 5 passes in his first year (2 INT's). Does that mean that Beck is the next Brett Favre? No, not at all, but it shows that first impressions aren't everything and players take more than a handful of games to develop.
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  12. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

    31,885
    8,682
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Bloomington, IN.

    Agreed. But you also have to take into consideration that the coaches know alot more about his mechanics and what they think the team needs than we do. If they deem he's not right for this team, then thats the way it is. Does'nt mean he wont go elsewhere and be successful.
     
  13. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

    1,351
    448
    83
    Nov 29, 2007
    Thanks, you have interesting posts in this thread. I didn't know Cameron had latched on somewhere. Glad he did.
     
    like2god likes this.
  14. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008

    I think Henne has outplayed Beck. I like him more Sat nite and appearently hes getting more reps in practice. Who knows? We'll know when their careers are over who was better. I like Henne to start eventually and Beck to back him up...based on what I've seen AND heard.

    And as for why I keep saying "hes only qualified as a backup"..thats not totally true. Right now, hes not even that. But hopefully he will DEVELOP into a quality backup. He hasn't shown in practice or in games that hes a good QB. Many QBs take time to develop. Many never develop.

    Cam might get a vote. But hes no decision maker. Hes a QB guru is he? Maybe. But hes no head coach. In two HC gigs hes been an abysmal failure. So I am glad hes gone. I didn't want him to go away hurt, I just wanted him to go away.

    Wolf has been a successful GM, to be sure. But BP has been both. Besides, Wolf is retired. Wolf did like Beck. He appearently liked Nagle as well. Oops. No one is perfect. Some have a long track record of success. Some do not.
     
  15. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Yup. That was Wolf. He had Favre rated highest on his board and then made a damn bush league, amateur blunder by picking position over talent. Ricky Watters and Jake Reed were both sitting there and Wolf took Nagle. Big mistake.

    So, we can praise Wolf, and I have. But to use him to prop up keeping Beck is a non starter.

    I watched the Cowboys Camp on HBO last night. Lets get back to the original point of this thread....If its obvious that Beck is going to be good, perhaps the Cowboys won't mind trading us Isaiah Stanback for Beck. IMO, if the Cowboys need a backup QB and they were high on Beck (Jerry Jones is still the GM in Dallas), then lets make that trade. It works for everyone. Give us a young WR with some potential, they get a young QB to develop. And Jason Garrett is a QB guru as well.
     
  16. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Beck has had more than a handful of games. He had all of last season and all of this offseason and half a training camp now. The coaches will be able to see if he has what they think it takes to succeed in this league.
     
  17. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

    23,327
    35,934
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Maybe the Cowboys knew something we didnt and were waiting for the shoe to fall .If true they may get Beck for free
     
  18. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

    72,658
    35,312
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Charlotte NC
    that would be a tough pill to swallow :pity:
     
    CrunchTime likes this.
  19. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    I don't think any GM in this league would give up anything for Beck.
     
  20. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Why should they when they know Bill, all they have to do is wait till the cutdown.:wink2:
     
  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Some would argue that BP has not been both. That he was a horrible GM (Jets record was ok but he left the team in shambles)

    But I don't want to drudge that discussion up. That was pretty ugly as well a few months ago :lol:
     
  22. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Mechanics can be fixed with coaching. If the FO gives up on any of our young players too soon and they go off and become successful elsewhere then that is a total failure of our ability to develop young players and build a team in general. I can't think of a more textbook definition of incompetence than that.
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  23. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

    31,885
    8,682
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Bloomington, IN.
    I agree with that too...but sometimes thats what it takes for a QB to be successful. A different system, a different coordinator. etc.
     
  24. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    That's your opinion and facts don't back it up. Everything that I've seen and everything that has been reported is that none of the QB's have pulled away from the pack. Other than one slanted blogger, I haven't seen anything to say that Henne, Beck or McCown have taken the lead.

    Add to that the fact that Sparano already explained the reps for this week, you can choose to accept or deny it.

    Again, your opinion. If your opinion of Beck is that he isn't even qualified to be a backup then I would question your ability to make a decision based on a very limited amount of data and also point out that Henne isn't doing aby better. If Beck has no future, then I guess by your criteria that Henne doesn't either.

    Cam never had say over personnel moves here, he had input here just like he did in SD and just like he now has in Baltimore. The QB guru label was given to him by his peers, if you have a problem with it you can write into them and tell them that they have no idea what they're talking about. I didn't give it to him.

    Wait a second, the Jets had a serious need for a QB and when their first choice was scooped up 1 pick before their selection they had to go to their 2nd rated QB. Isn't that what all competent FO's do in that situation? Isn't that the whole point of scouting and ranking players? You are going to try and minimize Wolf's credentials by calling him "bush league" for something that all FO's do when they have a glaring need at a major position? That's all I need to know. :lol:

    And Parcells is known more for his coaching than he is for his personnel moves. Some of his personnel moves have been questioned as well. I could put a list together if that's the road you want to go down.

    The Phins haven't even shopped Beck around the league despite reports from PFT and the like. I just posted something from the Herald that says that in clear english, so this thread is silly speculation.

    Really?

    Last year the plan was to keep him on the bench for the year and he was never properly prepared to see game time, even after he was named the starter. He didn't get the necessary practice time with the first team to build chemistry and the first team offense was completely neutered by the time Beck actually saw action, so how did he really get a decent shot last year? If you want to blame Cam for anything, blame him for mismanaging Beck and giving into pressure from the fans and media to put Beck in. Infact Beck said earlier this year that he had learned more in 2 months from Parcells and Co. than he did all of last year from Cam and Co., so how the hell did he get a decent shot? :lol:
     
  25. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Yeah, well, some will argue the earth is flat. Its a by-product of a society where people have "freedom of speech". They also have the freedom to be complete jackasses, and many are.

    People believe in Big Foot, in UFOs and all kinds of nonsense. Thats not the point. You can believe anything and since people can't prove a negative, ie, there is positively no Big Foot, people continue to believe it.

    However, when one holds to an opinion that is shown to be false, and that person refuses to accept the reality of the situation, he does so at his own reputation's peril.
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Ok, I have no idea how you got from my post to this one. Whose opinion has been shown to be false?

    Anyways, the earth is flat dude. Just today on Foxnews.com:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,403802,00.html
     
    WharfRat, Big E and like2god like this.
  27. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    Let Beck's "treatment" go. He either has to impress in camp or not. Why does this give you so much anguish?

    We can disagree about his performance vs Henne. We'll see who is right. Time will tell. The coaches are going to give the better QB the job. If Becks better than Henne, we'll be talking about Henne getting the boot. Lets be patient and see what happens.

    If you want to continue to the Wolf vs Parcells debate, sure. I don't understand the antipathy of you guys about the man leading our team. Yet you guys have this strange affinity for Beck....:no:

    Oh well, we are indeed a big and DIVERSE group!
     
  28. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

    721
    207
    0
    Apr 12, 2008
    I brought it up because you and L2G are disparaging Parcells and expressing the "right to your opinion" about Parcells, when he has clearly been successful turning around franchises in this league. So thats how I got from your post to this one.
     
  29. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

    11,575
    2,518
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Miami, FL
    Cam wasn't out of a job very long at all, because he is an excellent offensive co-ordinator.
     
    Big E likes this.
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Cam Cameron has no say over personnel in Baltimore.
     
    PMZQ likes this.
  31. calphin

    calphin deadly at 250 yards!!



    sounds as if someone knows what they are doing:up:
     
    PMZQ and Georgia Fin like this.
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,392
    14,745
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    Exactly. Parcells wants a classic pocket passer. He'll settle for other types if no better option is available but his preference is for the pocket passer. I think in Chad Henne they have what they're looking for in a pocket passing QB. Beck, to me needs to be moved around a bit since he just looks scared facing down a pass rush. You need to be able to take a hit to complete a pass if you're going to be a pure pocket passer. Either that or you just need to run quick hitting pass plays. I think Beck's best chances are to try to hook up with a different team. A coryell one, preferably but m,aybe a west coast one. And if he does have success elsewhere in a different system it doesnt mean he would have success here in our system
     
  33. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

    10,439
    3,176
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    UCLA, CA
    I think he wants one with feet of stone (Testaverde, Bledsoe, Henson, Henne), but that's just me. Good QB's can not only take a hit but still move around well in the pocket under pressure. Like Peyton Manning, even though he's not really a scrambler, he somehow has the great footwork and sense to avoid a rusher. I just can't see it in Beck or Henne for different reasons. Honestly, if Tony Romo wasn't the kind of QB Parcells wanted (he really wanted to ship him out for a 3rd and only when Quincy failed a drug test, Bledsoe went down did Romo see the light of day), I don't know...:crapstrom:
     
  34. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    Would you be happy to see young talent thrown away before they have time to develop? This could be Henne next year and I will be the first one to speak up. This team has pissed away too many draft picks via trade and poor drafting (only 2 players remain from the 200-2004 drafts) and I don't want to see that problem continue. Most teams would love to have our situation with 2 young talented QB's with potential on their roster, we (some fans and media) can't seem to get rid of that fast enough.

    Like I said earlier, there isn't a more direct textbook definition of incompetence than a FO getting rid of young players too soon and letting them go somewhere else to become successful. If Parcells and Co. are making decisions based on the fact that they didn't draft Beck (he isn't "their guy" as some people here have suggested) and not on his skill level, then it's even worse IMO.

    Which is all I'm looking for. :up:

    How is pointing out the facts about Parcells and Wolf disparaging? Parcells is known more for his coaching than his personnel moves and Wolf was one of the best personnel men in the business. That isn't disparaging, that's NFL history.

    Then obviously you didn't bother to read Ozzie Newsome's comments on the subject.
     
  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,392
    14,745
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    Yeah that may be a good way to put it. I dont think he necessarily wants lead footed QBs but he's not infatuated with how mobile a QB is as much as how accurate, smart and tough he is. The great pocket passers definitely have nimble footwork. Marino was the best example of just sliding in the pocket to get the lane and buy an extra second
     
    PMZQ and Regan21286 like this.
  36. Finatic8480

    Finatic8480 New Member

    592
    584
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Miami
    If Beck were to be traded to the Cowboys, I hope we would rape them again like we did in the Fasano & Ayodele trade. I would offer them Beck and a 5th for Greg Ellis, but that is just me
     
  37. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

    10,439
    3,176
    0
    Dec 3, 2007
    UCLA, CA
    I wish we could get a CB, WR, or a OL back. Or even Zach :sad:. But that's just wishful thinking.
     
  38. Finatic8480

    Finatic8480 New Member

    592
    584
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Miami
    Zach, LoL! Come on be serious here. Our most desperate needs are WR & OLB. Pasqualoni has been try to turn Holliday into the next Ellis, but in all seriousness I think OLB could turn out to be an achilles heel this season.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Or scare the hell out of him with the threat of telling him he sucks by releasing him, that tends to give one a larger problem then worrying about the 3 second clock or a pass rush.

    I would bet Beck has never been threatened with not making a team before..."designing plays with McNuggets? I'm about to lose my job, I don't have time for that sh*t".....

    I'd hoped he would get into a bar fight or something, but alas, push came to shove so the rumor was dropped in the press....:hi5:
     
  40. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,392
    14,745
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    Very true. I thought the kiss of death was when the front office was praising Beck. Thats a signal that Parcells doesnt believe a player can handle criticism. And if he doesnt feel you can handle criticism he feels you're soft. If Parcells likes you, more often than not he's criticizing you (exceptions being players like Lawrence Taylor, etc) Maybe they are trying to light a fire under his @@@. Parcells is a genius when figuring out how to push psychological buttons. Bottom line, Beck has one or two preseason games to step up and show that he deserves to be here

    BTW, the mcnugget thing was just creepy to me. I know everyone loved that story but my reaction was just relax man and eat the damn food :lol:
     

Share This Page