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Official ***Steelers and Phins Gameday Thread***

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Tannehill's fumbles aren't because he's holding the ball out. Usually it's Tannehill getting hit from his back, but he doesn't fumble because he's being careless worth the ball.

    No agenda, man.
     
  2. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Back in 2012-2013 I did.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The.
    Ball.
    Should.
    Never.
    Ever.
    Be.
    Held.
    Out.
    Away.
    From.
    His.
    Body.

    I know what he was trying to do. He should not have tried to do it, if to do it he has to be careless with the ball.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sorry for lumping you in.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Here's what I'm saying...

    I don't fault Moore for the play breakdown, or the sack. I simply fault him for the fumble. He owns that. His poor decision with the ball led to the fumble. Of course, at its core, the fumble is on the line, because they sucked *** on that play. But, he could have minimized the suckage by being careful with the ball.

    Now I must commit to watching Bama. LOL
     
  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Well...they are wrong.
     
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  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Believe me, Fin-O, if we had a better option than Tannehill, I'd be all for it.

    We just don't, at the moment, and with the other needs, I don't see QB being something they look to change. I do happen to think Tannehill is pretty good, though. LOL
     
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  8. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Shocking. But no agendas lol
     
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  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It would've cost him if Mitchell was there much earlier when he was holding the ball out. That's what led to the first fumble.

    My point of contention continues to be that by the time Mitchell was within 2 steps of Moore - MM8 had already attempted to tuck the ball, but he couldn't get his left hand on it due to Ajayi's being ragdolled into him by Harrison. The isolation of the play shows this. Hell I didn't even originally notice it and was verbally shaming Moore during the game. LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  10. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    He is good, happy to have this new version of him under Gase. Year 2 under Gase?? He's a pro bowl QB.
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Rock I got to disagree with you here. Check this video out again, specifically at 6:20:



    You can very clearly see Moore's left hand touch the football before Moore gets tackled or gets hit by Ajayi. Moore momentarily makes a right arm motion after his left hand touches the ball so that the football no longer touches the left hand. It is THEN that the tackle is made and he gets hit by Ajayi.

    My interpretation: Moore is NOT trying to tuck the ball. He is trying to momentarily protect the ball with his left hand while still preparing to throw the ball if possible. That's why I can't absolve him of at least some responsibility. He was NOT trying to tuck the ball or protect it as much as possible even though he had the opportunity to do so.

    At least that's how I'm seeing it in the video (have to keep rewinding it multiple times to see when what occurs, but that's how I'm seeing it).
     
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  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Understood. I've posted the frames of the pictures and watched it about 50 times myself.

    However, he was NOT carrying the ball like a loaf of bread when the collision occurred - which is what Resnor keeps barking about and happened on the first strip sack. The moment he sensed Mitchell gettin' close he lowered the ball and brought it in. What he was doing with his left arm is clearly a point of debate between you and I. He most certainly didn't have the foresight of was knowing Ajayi would get punked into him, but nobody would.

    He's out there trying to make a play - it's not like one of those sacks we saw when Turner/Thomas were in there and Tanny would have to eat the ball. There was room to maneuver the pocket and climb up to the right - which he did on the play right before it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah at the time of the sack Moore was trying to protect the ball somewhat. I certainly agree with that. So I wouldn't assign anywhere as much blame to Moore on this one as the first one.

    Only thing I'd argue against is if all the blame is shifted away from him. Personally, I'd say 100% of the blame is on Moore for the 1st fumble and 50% for the second. Maybe that's somewhat in the range of what we can agree upon.
     
  14. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm crediting him trying to make a play on the 2nd fumble and he had shown plenty of pocket presence leading up to that game (1 sack in 80+ attempts). A little too much trust though that Ajayi was going to hold his block.

    I understand if people would prefer him to eat it there on 1st down - however I find some of that duplicitous and had he done that you would've seen gamethread posts about needing better escapability.

    Enough though from me on this though. LOL
     
  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'd credit him with trying to make a play too, but where I assign blame to Moore is his execution. Specifically he didn't grip the ball with both hands while still trying to look downfield for a play. I mean.. let's not forget Moore actually saw danger coming. So that was bad execution as far as I'm concerned.
     
  16. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Watch this Aaron Rodgers play from yesterday: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20170...ameinfo|contentId:0ap3000000771685&tab=videos

    He's maneuvering the pocket trying to avoid the rush while keeping the ball close inside, but he's "patting" the ball with his outside hand. It's fairly commonplace. If you tuck with both hands you're giving up on the idea of passing the ball.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Right.. he's gripping the football with both hands during entire stretches. That's what Moore should have done. I'm not suggesting Moore should've tucked it (not what I meant in the previous post).
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Dude, seriously you're the only one with an agenda. You were dead wrong about tannehill and now are trying to smear all those who were right. Give it a rest already. Its getting tiresome
     
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  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I know, but he also didn't have to contend with one of his teammates being shoved right into him - so there was no time.

    OK seriously, I'm done. Hahaha :tongue2:
     
  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You are an infant, so I forgive your cluelessness.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought Moore made three crucial mistakes in a playoff game...need to be more aware in those situations and make better decisions..QB draw would of been the right call before the half..

    Defense lost the game though..if Pitt needed to score more thapey would have..
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think what that game taught us about offensive play and QBs, is that when the oline plays terribly, then bad things tend to happen with the QB. Doesn't matter if its Thill, Moore or even Rodgers.

    The single biggest difference this year was that during our streak we got decent oline play instead of putrid. It's really that simple.
     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I've tried to explain to Rock that the Jay was pushed, but for some reason Rock wants to believe Jay was "rag dolled" and "thrown into Moore like a projectile" (those are his words pretty much verbatim)...He's trying to make you believe that Harrison was Hulk Hogan and Jay was some guy in the crowd that decided to get into the ring and was thrown into Moore like Hogan throws people out of the ring. lol

    Jay was pushed back, but Moore was careless with the ball. He was careless with the ball on 3 separate occasions. Granted, if the o-line plays better those fumbles never happen, but if he's more careful with the ball those fumbles never happen. And if those 2 fumbles never happen, (One inside Pitt's 10 yard line and one inside Pitt's 35 yard line) and with how they were moving the ball, it could have been 20-20 a few minutes into the 2nd half. If that happens it's a whole new ball game...
     
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  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Maaaan...you so crazy for thinking that o-line play affects QB play. lol
     
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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The difference is RT protects the ball better than Moore. Proof?

    RT- 77 games, 46 fumbles, 213 sacks
    Moore- 28 games, 24 fumbles, 67 sacks

    To compare, and show how well RT holds onto the ball, let's look at another QB.

    Brady- 237 games, 106 fumbles, 417 sacks

    RT has been sacked nearly half as many times as Brady, in about a 1/3 of the games. RT actually fumbles less than Brady. Moore fumbles 35% of the time when he's sacked. Brady 25%. RT 21%.



    If Moore had been securing the ball, and it was ripped out by Harrison I would lay the blame 100% on the line. However, Harrison could have farted on the ball on the first strip and it would have came out. That's how careless he was with the ball. On the second fumble he was holding the ball out to the side and Jay barely touched it and he fumbled it...
     
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  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Matt Moore being careless with the football, is not something that should be a surprise to anyone.
     
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  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Well, at least one person here seems surprised.
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, but I get accused of pushing an agenda when I point out his carelessness with the football, and refuse to blame Ajayi for Matt fumbling due to carelessness.
     
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Nope, but you like to talk in extremes ....... i.e. if it's 1 it's all. If I don't like a play from Tannehill then it means I hate everything he does.

    I overreacted (much like you always do) to his 2nd fumble, but upon further review its a freak play. The first fumble is completely on him and I have no idea WTF he was doing.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Matt Moore started his scramble with the ball way out as from his body. That is why he fumbled. Exactly like the other fumble. It's Football 101, which is probably why you don't understand it.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Rock, from the moment you started posting on here, you were anti-Tannehill. That's the truth. You're trying to act like you were balanced in your view of him, but you weren't.
     
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  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I don't have to act like anything. It's the Miami Dolphins - not the Miami Tannehills. Maybe one day you will realize that.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is no blame. How about that. Ajayi on Harrison is unfair. If Ajayi doesn't get rag dolled it's likely just a sack because Mitchell doesn't even make a play for the FF just wraps Moore up. It's just an unlucky turn of events. It's a great play by Harrison. Guys a beast.
     
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  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Ajayi holds his block is there a fumble? No just a sack. Ajayi got manhandled and caused the fumble. Point blank.

    Moore sees a lane his guy is on a block and he runs through the lane. Ajayi gets spun around and on video appears to intentionally forearm the football out. Now it's not intentional but it's not Moores handling of the football causing the fumble. It's Ajayi getting tossed like a doll and then waving his arms around like a damsel in distress.
     
  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    And that's assuming Moore doesn't get around the right side of Ajayi to get the ball off to Parker at the sticks for a first down - which is something he did literally one play before it with Juice.

    Brace yourself - you're going to get the rebuttal that Ajayi wasn't punked. Harrison didn't even move an inch when they were engaged, but Ajayi miraculously ends up nearly two years deeper in the backfield.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah I don't get why he keeps arguing Ajayi wasn't manhandled there. He was.
     
  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well each is entitled to their own opinion, but whether I look at the video in normal speed or look at closeups in slow-mo, I still think it's the QB's job there to protect the football. So for me Moore is at least partly to blame for the fumble. The only reason he's not fully to blame is Ajayi being pushed into him.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Moore bears all the responsibility for the ball coming loose because he was so careless worth how he held it, imo.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're joking, right?

    Right???
     

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