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No Surprise Here, but Matt Moore likely to start Sunday

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    He hit him in the chest and as Dupree went thru him Matt's chin came down as Dupree's helmet went up. While violent, it wasn't dirty. And again, Moore could have avoided it by throwing the ball away or simply running OOB.
     
  2. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I can post the frame by frame for you if needbe. First contact was to Moore's chest and as Dupree went thru him on the hit, Matt's chin came down into contact with Dupree's helmet. No one is disputing this wasn't a violent hit, it just wasn't some dirty cheap shot. We've our own guys make similar hits and tackles.

    Moore did a good job of running away from Harrison to avoid pressure behind the LOS. Standing their and watching a guy draw a bead and run at him 10-15 yards before hitting him wasn't a smart decision and was totally avoidable.

    Disagreeing with your "take" and wanting to take steps to enhance the QB position so we aren't again put into the unwanted position of having to search the street for another QB makes me a bad poster? LOL...
     
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  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    It was violent, that's football, not dirty and I don't see where he intentionally hit him in the head. It was a full speed hit on a QB where, IMO, the defender aimed for the chest and his helmet slide up and caught him under the chin.
     
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  4. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    That's again why you're a bad poster. Grammar aside, if you honestly believe, with all your football knowledge that you've accumulated in what I imagine is 16-17 years of life, believe Moore was standing "their" and watching Dupree run at him instead of looking downfield and trying to make a play, which he did, then you have little to no hope of improving my experience on this board or contributing any meaningful and insightful content.
     
  5. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The same tunnel-vision Moore exhibited on that Dupree hit is the same tunnel-vision he had when he threw that interception later in the game.
     
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  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    IMO they were hitting to put people out of the game that day. I like a hard fought football matchup, but I though it was a bit much.
     
  7. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    This is wild.
     
  8. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He saw Dupree way before he through (spelled that way so you could have a legitimate gripe) the ball. He's a tough SOB, just not very smart.
     
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  9. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    LOL... you're going to act like the grammar police now over a typo? That's being petty.

    If you own a car, I'm sure you've adjusted the radio while driving and are also observing other cars and events around you while driving. Avoiding oncoming traffic or unexpected incidents is part of being a driver. Matt Moore is a 9 year vet QB who has taken a lot of shots and should be accustomed to having guys rushing at him while he drifts and holds onto the ball. I can admire him wanting to make a play "there", but he took a needless shot due to a bad decision.

    You're misinformed. I am not a "bad poster", and it's not my duty to improve your experience on this board. I was expressing an opinion on addressing the QB position as as well as providing a still shot showing that Moore was first hit in the chest. And, like it or not, I'm as welcome to my opinions on this board as you are to yours. No matter how off base yours may be in either instance...

    Cheers.
     
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  10. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I agree with that. Thing with Matt isn't IF he's going to throw an INT or fumble, it's when. Matt did make that INT easy by staring down his intended receiver. Still, it was a Hell of an athletic play by Shazier to make that play.

    Shazier was the guy I was hoping we'd draft in 2014. Ju'wuan James isn't much of a consolation prize. lol...
     
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  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    We were just as physical in the first game and played through the whistle. Just too many injuries this game and having to start Thomas and Rambo over IAQ and Jones... well... /sighs
     
  12. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    You are 100% entitled to your opinion. Many people think we should move on from Matt, even years ago. Many think we should move on from Ryan. Many think Ryan is our guy. Many like Ryan but don't want to pay him. Many think Matt is underpaid. Many think Matt is overpaid. It's not about opinions.

    You bashing Moore for avoiding a sack, scrambling, and finding an open receiver then taking an illegal hit is ludicrous.

    Did you see how many times he had to scramble out of the pocket and make a play in that game? If he ran OOB or tossed the ball away, the score would have been uglier than it was.

    Moore hit Landry, who should've caught it at the 17 yard line. We should have gotten a 15 yard penalty and not been hit with a dead ball foul. Thanks to Matt on that play, we should have had 1st and Goal from the 8ish yard line. Who knows what happens from there. He probably fumbles but that's besides the point.
     
  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I "bashed" Moore for a bad decision there. He threw to Landry after holding it wayyyyy too long. And his fumbles and INT did far more damage than anything he was going to do in the game at that point. And No, Moore "probably fumbles" is exactly the point of why we need to move on.

    In any event, it's done. Game over. You're fully entrenched in defending a 32 year old journeyman career backup QB when the original point I was making was that we need to improve the QB depth so we don't end up in this same situation in the future.

    Let it go...
     
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  14. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    I just don't like terribly misinformed posts. You can feel we need to move on from Moore, many people do, but saying that play was a bad decision is nonsense. He made some bad decisions in that game and there is plenty reasons to want to move on, that's just not one of them. With a score there, we're back in the game. He hadn't turned the ball over yet but you wanted him to give up on the play and used it as a negative that he didn't. That's just strange to me. Many QBs take hits, they just don't plan to take illegal hits and you're blaming him for that.



    2:36

    It doesn't get more clear than that that first contact is Moore's facemask.
     
  15. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Terribly misinformed... ok... lol...

    There was no first contact in the facemask. Rewatch the video... Stop it at 8 seconds. Moore looks at Dupree. You see his head move and identify him incoming. You see Moore try to side-arm a throw around him

    Stop it at 9 seconds. You see Dupree lower his head and shoulder to him in the chest.

    Stop it at 10 secs. Contact is beneath Matt's helmet.

    From your own video...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Just let it go...
     
  16. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    Why would you choose the angle you can't see anything?
     
  17. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Lol... the stills are from your video. The same video that you were claiming to see Dupree hit Moore in the facemask with... but ok. I'm done with this silliness.
     
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  18. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    I gave you a time to look with the perfect angle. Willfully ignoring it.
     
  19. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Dude, there was no hit in the facemask as you claimed. If so, post the picture. I've looked at 3 videos and went frame by frame and haven't seen it yet. I'd have no problem admitting otherwise if the evidence were there.
     
  20. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    I'm not savvy enough for that type of work. Was barely able to use the youtube. 2:37-2:38 of the video.
     
  21. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Frame by frame... Moore identifies Dupree coming and tries to sidearm a throw around him. By doing so, he lowers his torso and leans into Dupree's trajectory as Dupree simultaneously lowers his pads and helmet. He hits Moore in the chest first. You can see him lowering his pads, but as he runs through the hit, Moore's chin comes down from the whiplash action. There is contact to the Moore's chin, yes, but it was after the initial contact and that was not a dirty hit. Dupree did not target him in the head and didn't cave his facemask in.

    Someone could even argue that Matt made the hit worse by leaning into his side armed throw and that his own momentum caused it to appear to be helmet to helmet targeting.

    It was unfortunate, yes, but stuff like this happens. Glad Matt is ok.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Cuchalain - the problem is Moore's natural throwing motion of course is going to lower his body a tad, but Dupree is elevating into a hit ...... which is why he ends up in the throat/chin area. He is also 6'4, so he should be making more of a concerted effort to lower into the midsection of Moore.

    The league puts the onus on defensive players to take proper steps for preventing hits like these. He will be fined and it will settle this debate.

    Man I hate that f*cking video.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Here's your fine:

    Hence, the hit was illegal.
     
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Who said it wasn't illegal?
     
  25. StairwayToSeven

    StairwayToSeven New Member

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    The hit is right around the neck area. Dupree was out to deliver a big hit, but not to nail MM in the head. Illegal and should be flagged 10 times out of 10, but I wouldn't call it dirty. Then again, most of what I would consider dirty occurs after the whistle or when the other guy isn't even looking.
     
  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The crown of Dupree's helmet hit Moore's chin and facemask. That's why it's a fine.

    Remember he's 6'4, so he should be going lower on QB's if he wants to avoid something like that.
     
  27. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    Cuchulala repeatedly insisted he was hit only in the chest and it wasn't illegal and Matt Moore is in idiot and should be released for such a play.
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The hit wasn't intended to be illegal, I think is a better way of summarizing Cuch's feelings on the subject.

    But I think you know exactly what he's trying to say.
     
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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Aren't you two saying essentially saying the same thing?
     
  30. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Pretty much... if you look at the composite of still shots, you clearly see Dupree's yellow gloved hand in Matt's chest shoving him. It was the follow thru action put the crown of Dupree's helmet into Matt chin.
     
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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The REAL crime here was Ajayi getting a 15 yard penalty for touching a Steelers shoulder pad.
     
  32. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Re-read what I wrote. You said Dupree's first contact was with Matt's facemask. It wasn't and I argued that with you. First contact was with Matt's chest. You can see Dupree's extended yellow-gloved hand in Matt's chest before shoulder or helmet contact and Bud was dropping his shoulder or he would have knocked Matt out similar to the hit on Pat White hit by Ike Taylor years ago.

    You and Rock were arguing it was a dirty hit. It was not. It's illegal by nature of the result of the blow ending up as a helmet to the chin of Matt Moore, but that wasn't Dupree's intent. Matt's side-arm attempt to lean and throw around him put him in harm's way.

    Just exactly in what post did I call Matt an idiot, or say he should be released solely for that play? I didn't.

    My argument was that we've seen the best of Matt Moore and that we need to upgrade the QB position 1-2-3. Tannehill is clearly the best QB on the roster right now. IMO, there is no reason to continue to carry Matt and not have a young guy continually being groomed so that we aren't again put into the position of not having a contingency QB ready to step in at any time. Even Rock acknowledged that the plan has it's merits ala New England...
     
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  33. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    He did drop his shoulders and try to go below the neck. Matt's body lean and side-arm attempt lowered his torso at impact.

    The play was fined by the nature and viciousness of the hit, not because it was an attempt to injure. I do agree that he could have went even lower. We've seen Tannehill damn near cut in half with similar shots to the mid-section.

    Conversely, it's still a bit odd that Calais Campbell was never fined for the blow to Tannehill's knee.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His eyes were down...unintenially leading with his crown, his instinct to lead with his helmet took over his body...absolutely illegal hit...if you can't see what your hitting, your doing it illegally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
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  35. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I'd like to see the quote where he wrote that MM is an idiot and should be released over that play...lol
     
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  36. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    Matt needs to go, his "experience" led him to watch Dupree illegally hit him.

    He needs to be cut, he's an idiot.

    Not Matt made a nice play scrambling, got the ball downfield and Juice dropped it while taking a hit for the team that he had no way of knowing would be illegal. Nope. Idiot. Cut. "Experience"

    Saying he needs to be released because he makes bad decisions, then saying the Dupree play was a bad decision by Moore while putting experience in quotes is him saying exactly that Moore is an idiot and needs to be released, no?

    I don't want a QB scared to get hit. I want a QB trying to make plays. Getting hit is part of football. Getting hit illegally is out of his hands.
     
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  37. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    None of that shows him saying what you claimed.

    He thinks MM should go because he's peaked. He's saying he wants to do what other good teams do. And that is, bring in fresh, new QB's and try to develop them. Maybe you'll get a Rodgers or Brady if you do that enough.

    As for the second quote, MM made a dumb decision on that play. It was ballsy, but dumb. At it's best, if Landry doesn't drop the ball, it's a 5-6 yard completion. That's not worth getting put in the hospital or not being able to finish the game. I mean, if he had been knocked out of the game Yates would have had to come in.
     
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  38. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Why stop there? Make up some more BS while you're at it...

    Poor grammar aside, SlyFoxxx = bad poster. Lol... :innocent:

    You keep re-framing this conversation trying to win what argument? And you first claimed that Dupree caved in Matt's facemask. if you re-read the entire back and forth, I complimented Matt on running away from Harrison and trying to make a play. I also complimented him on trying to make a play there.

    That said, holding onto the football too long and watching Dupree run 15 yards into him wasn't a very smart decision That's a far cry from calling him an idiot or saying that he should be cut for that play. I never said either. While I too want my QB(s) trying to make plays, I expect them all to be smarter than that and to take better care of the football.
     
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  39. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    1. QBs take a lot of hits, they don't make decisions to throw the ball away based on potential yards gained. They try to find open receivers and deliver the football. Would you want your RB to take a knee if there is no hole? "Sorry coach, didn't wanna get hit for only 2 YPC"

    2. The LOS was the 32. Landry dropped the ball at the 16.5 yard line. My math is fuzzy but "at best" I think it's more than 5-6 yards. Where do you draw the line on taking a hit and making a completion being dumb or good? 7 yards? 12 yards? 15.5 yards? 30 yards?

    3. Rodgers was a first round pick. Keep recycling first round picks? Can't be good for Tanny or team depth. Take a flyer on a 6th rounder? Sure, we did that. All teams do. It doesn't work out. Jimmy G was a 2nd rounder. You wanna use a 2nd rounder on a QB each year while ignoring all the holes we have and also making a position of strength weaker? Ok, but a lot of people disagree.
     
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  40. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Thanks.... this is exactly the points I was trying to make. :up:
     
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