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Incognito added to Pro Bowl

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    When you are talking about adults and one does things that make others uncomfortable its not called being a bully, its called being a dick.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It's bullying though cause again, Ritchie was in a position of power over Martin.
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I guess a terrible comeback is better than nothing at all. Keep trying pal, you'll get there.
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's complete bull****. This was two guys who hung out together daily after practice. They texted each other constantly. They planned vacations together. Nobody is denying that it wasn't a messed up, destructive relationship...but Martin CHOSE to be a part of it.

    He could have talked to Ritchie, to a coach or a trainer...there were so many outs besides running out the door and not returning anyone's calls/texts for days. And who's the first person he ultimately contacted? Read the report- it was Incognito via text. And the first thing he said was that it wasn't about their relationship. Martin apologized for making Ritchie look bad and getting him in trouble. Because even after he screwed over his best friend and sabotaged his career, the sissy still wanted his acceptance and to be friends with him.

    I'm not saying Ritchie is a saint by any means- he's a piece of human garbage with all the crap he's pulled over the years. But he didn't do anything wrong here- he was ultimately the victim.
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're probably one of those people that blame the woman for choosing to be in an abusive relationship too.

    Not all people are the same. They all handle things differently. Whether you like it or not, agree or not, Ritchie as a vet and team leader did, in fact, have a position of power over Martin. Calling that bull****, it frankly.....ridiculous.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not really sure it's a comeback so much as it is trying to drag out an answer to a question.
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Sure Ritchie was a vet, but Martin walked out halfway through his second year. And you're completely ignoring the part where the team asked Cogs to "toughen Martin up" and "make him a part of the team". It doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that the coaching staff thought he was a sissy as well.

    If you actually read the texts though- all of them...it's impossible not to see that the two guys were close friends. The position of authority you're talking about may have existed on paper, but it just wasn't there in real life.

    As far as the battered women comment- you're right, I blame the women. If a guy is such a piece of garbage that he's putting hands on a female, he belongs in jail where some real men can teach him common sense. All it takes is one phone call and the abusive relationship is over- but women with low self esteem never seem to make that call. It sucks and I hate it for them, but a woman cannot get out of that situation until she decides to do so.
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is really reprehensibly stupid on a number of levels.

    Women can, and are murdered after calling the police, after domestic violence charges are filed, after conviction, after separation, restraining order, and on down the line. Suggesting it's simply a matter of them making a phone call and that's the sole issue is toweringly ignorant. Pinning it on "low self esteem" is really tremendous too- especially when this kind of bull**** exacerbates the stigma that causes people to avoid properly reporting domestic violence.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Incognito is no saint but Martin has as much to blame here as anyone. His teammates would have no idea about his severe depression. It's one thing if they ignored pleas from him for them to stop. Instead he joined in sometimes.

    He admits he was a bully before as well in trying to fit in with other kids. The battered wife syndrome analogy is ridiculous. Completely different.
     
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  10. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Since everything is so "stupid" to you lately...what is your solution?
     
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  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Calling out someone for a really terrible and counter-productive opinion does not presuppose my need to issue a plan to solve domestic violence on an internet message board about football.

    Let's try an easy one, though- let's not act as if the onus to solve domestic violence is entirely on the people being abused, and let's not treat them as being damaged for not responding to abuse in the fashion you deem appropriate.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First, you tell me Ritchie wasn't his superior and they were just being friendly then you tell me Ritchie was given power by their superiors to toughen him up. So which is it?

    Hint: You proved my point about Ritchie being his superior and Ritchie's motives not being pure friendship.

    I won't dignify this heinous garbage with debate. All I'll say is you don't have a single ****ing clue what you're talking about.
     
  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Then what is a good productive solution?

    I mean, if you KNOW what is stupid then you must know a better way.

    Do you have a background in domestic abuse? Did you take a psychology course in college that has given you the confidence to speak so surely on what is STUPID and what is not?
     
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  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's a pretty outstanding illustration of what I'm talking about that you're acting like the content of basic, near-ubiquitous public service on this topic requires some sort of obscure specialized study or impossibly opaque concept.

    Here's a Google image search of "Domestic Violence ads":
    http://tinyurl.com/h5uzv2g

    Notice some themes there I might have echoed? Do these things look at all familiar to you?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    There are dozens of organizations that will get battered women out of the situation immediately and into safe housing. Three women die daily in these relationships because they don't take action. Yet only 1 in 4 every report the abuse to anyone...even when they walk away. And at that point, they're 70x more likely to be murdered within the next 2 weeks.

    The answer is to disappear and get police involved, but it almost never happens. Almost 80% don't ever feel like they were being abused in the first place. Those are the facts- they suck but it is what it is.

    Maybe you're confusing "role model" and "superior", but they're two very different things. Incognito was never anyone's superior in the NFL.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Do you even understand why the bold the is true and how it destroys your whole concept of blaming the victim?
    I'm confusing nothing. You don't understand what a team leader means.
     
  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Civil settlement, which I'm sure had a confidentiality provision.

    I'm not sure we should bootstrap this incident,which was resolved with the mutual agreement of the parties, to justify the raw deal Richie got over "BullyGate".

    Clearly the victim felt getting compensated was more important to her than getting Richie charged criminally or fired at that time.
     
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  18. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    What a load of garbage. Just because you've decided something is one way does not make it so. Why don't you just say I preferred it in the past?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This isn't any less ****ty.
     
  20. ChrisKo

    ChrisKo Season Ticket Holder

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    Incognito is no longer on this team and this incident is in the past now. We're building something new here, so can we move on? Maybe this thread belongs in other NFL now?
     
  21. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The problem for he Dolphins is that next time Ritchie pulled a stunt like that it would put them into a strict liability situation (kind of like owning a dangerous dog that had already bitten several people)

    It puts them on the hook for aggravated damages as well because he refused to apologize after the incident. Which was what the victim really wanted when she brought her complaint to the Dolphins if I remember correctlt.

    From an insurance risk management perspective getting rid of Incognito was something the Phins needed to do. The next time he did something like that the Dolphins, not Incognito personally, would be in the barrel for a 7 figure payout.
     
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  22. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Sad to say but letting Richie go was best for him and not the Phins from a team need perspective.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  23. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Incog wasn't guilty of bullying, Martin was guilty of not being able to handle the environment.

    Did Martin have mental issues, if so I feel bad for him or was he simply an opportunist that realized he wasn't cut out for this so he tried to get some easy money(sissy/traitor/POS), who knows, what we do know is that Martin was the problem, not Incog.

    I tend to believe the latter, because he had all his ducks in a row, evidence, checking into a mental health clinic, then miraculously he's OK to play again, lol, not buying the mental illness thing, I can't be sure, but I'm not buying it on face value.
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're suspicious that Jonathan Martin conspired to sabotage his own NFL career in order to... what? Start a lucrative career talking to little kids about bullying?

    Meanwhile, the guy we know said a bunch of racist **** and sexually assaulted some woman apparently prompts no real scrutiny with you.

    Serious detective work going on over here.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  25. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What is with you guys that read what you want? Sabotage his own career? When did I say that?

    Try to read and understand;
    "or was he simply an opportunist that realized he wasn't cut out for this so he tried to get some easy money"

    Sexual assault? lol, go to the bar on the weekend and see the same thing, some drunk guy trying to squeeze the @ss of a bar maid, but no one cries sexual assault! Just a drunk guy going a bit too far, same as the golf girl and Incog.

    Are these guys guilty of being Aholes? yeah, are they guilty of sexual assault? no.

    On a side note, you ought not insinuate that others aren't good detectives, when you can't even ascertain the meaning of a sentence there Sherlock.
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't say you did that, but that's the reality of what he did.

    Meanwhile, what was the opportunism and attempt to get easy money?

    So you're telling me this:

    Is not actually sexual assault and the police filed a report out of a sense of boredom? Maybe you should go look up what constitutes sexual assault?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Flat out disturbing to see people justify sexual assault. Grabbing someone's *** when it is unwelcome is sexual assault to a T.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Fin D likes this.
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Wow. Drunkenly groping women without their consent is not sexual assault?

    Why do I suspect that if these morons were getting groped at a bar by gay guys, they'd change their story pretty quick.

    I seriously hate this world sometimes.
     
  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yes you did say it, read your own post.

    He got paid without playing, I think that would be painfully obvious.



    lol, harassment is not assault, Incog did not force sexual acts on her, which is what constitutes assault, did you not read what you posted?

    Still remains ironic that you accuse me of not being a good detective, lol.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I did not justify sexual assault, and what you are saying is false, that is not sexual assault.

    I think the death penalty should be extended to persons convicted of rape more than once.

    I also said that people that commit sexual harassment are Aholes, at least in committing the act, just because you grab someones @ss when you're drunk doesn't mean you aren't a good person, it just means you had a moment of bad decision, unless of course the women responds to it positively, which does happen.

    How do you know it's unwelcome until you try? What if the person was flirting?

    So where is this justification of sexual assault?

    I do not appreciate you accusing me of things that are false, that is slander.
     
  31. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Wow this took a turn for the worse.
     
  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again, no. It shouldn't be that confusing- it's something you need to address as part of your idea that he was financially motivated, not something you said.

    It's painfully obtuse. He continued playing- both under his original contract, and after he was released from that. Despite the fact it would be harder for him to claim damages if he continued to play in what would be a pretty open and shut lawsuit...that he didn't file.

    Despite the fact he was motivated to not play.

    What exactly do you think the difference is here between sexual harassment and assault? It isn't the level of seriousness or physicality.
     
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  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Wowzaroony, now I'M obtuse, lol, do you have a mirror? Some of this stuff is unbelievable.

    He played 7 games that year, but got paid for all of them while sipping pina coladas at mommy and daddys house, that is 9 games of pay while sitting on his uninjured @ss.

    So no, he did not just continue to play under his contract, he collected 9 game checks and was then traded, yes he did play for the 9ers under the same contract, but there never was any other contract.

    Do you check ANY of your facts?

    Assault is a criminal case, harassment is a civil case, so you tell me what the difference is, lol.

    As far as his civil case, that was far from open and shut, which is in all likelihood why he didn't pursue it, because Incog would have paraded nearly an entire team into court that would have said, "I don't know what Martin is talking about, I thought they were friends", as we heard many an incredulous Dolphin say following the event.
     
  34. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Sorry, grabbing a woman in a sexual manner without her permission is sexual assault. Grabbing a woman anywhere else is battery.

    If I ever saw a man grab any one of my daughters in this manner I'd make him eat his teeth..and he'd be lucky if that's all the beating that he got.
     
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  35. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You described him as someone who got all of his duck in a row in a cynical sense in order to pursue a financial payment without having to play football. What you're saying now directly contradicts this, and still begs a question of motivation. He angled for a lawsuit but then somehow couldn't file it? Really? That's your angle?

    Him missing a handful of games and *maybe* getting game checks(this hasn't been confirmed as far as I know either way) doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense when there are much bigger financial question at stake and he went back to play.

    No- some things that fall under the banner of "sexual harassment" are in fact a crime. Try again.
     
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  36. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    From my experience working in Personal Injury insurance for 17 years.

    1) Martin behaved pretty much as a text book victim of bullyng does.
    2) People who are trying to milk a claim behave differently than Martin did. Generally for psych claims they are loud attention seekers, and Martin essentially went into hiding. They generally make wild claims about extreme conditions, the worst stuff that came out n the Wells report wasn't the allegations Martin made, which indicates that Martin, if anything, understated his case.
    3) The bullying that is most destructive to victims is not the constant grind. That type people can predict and expect. The most damaging type is where the perpetrator flicks between being buddies and, seemingly at random, to being an attacker.
    4) The worst type of management response is the Sgt. Schulz "I know nothing"

    Based on what I have read if I was the Dolphins insurer I would get the checkbook out and pay Martin what he wanted as quickly and quietly as possible.
     
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  37. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    If a jury got a hold of the texts Martin and Incognito sent to each other the case would be laughed out of court.
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If this occurred anywhere but in the weird fantasy scenarios in your head you'd likely have someone with professional qualifications on hand to explain how common appeasement and approval-seeking behaviors are in these kind of social dynamics
     
  39. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    My last response to you, since you can't stay on point.

    I never said he was angling for a law suit, why are you making stuff up?

    I said he was looking for easy money, as in getting paid while not having to play.

    A handful of games, lol, he missed over half the season, a 1/4 of his games in Miami, he got paid for doing nothing, and yes he got paid, you cannot keep a player on your roster and not pay them.

    Harassment can only be brought to criminal court if there was an actual crime, like it leading to rape or some such, which has nothing at all to do with what we are discussing.

    There was no sexual assault.

    Grabbing @ss is not a crime, Incog was not being charged with any crime, period.
     
  40. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Just because you have a sense of entitlement, i.e. unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with your expectations, doesn't mean that everyone else in the real world thinks this way.

    What Martin did was very contrived. It's obvious to most people with a backbone. If the common person encounters something they dislike the last thing they do is emulate that behavior. Now, I realize that the typical bleeding heart and PC-entrenched person will guffaw at that last statement, but the typical bleeding heart and PC-entrenched person isn't a 300lb NFL offensive lineman.

    As a combat veteran I'm fully aware of how those who "can't cut it" react. I'm also aware of those who don't like it and make excuses. Martin is of the latter variety.
     

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