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Can you Fn believe that c*ap

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I appreciate greatness even if not my team. If you deny someones greatness just because they're in the same division ... Hey you keep doing you. Anything that helps you cope.
     
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  2. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    How sweet! I'm sure that makes you feel like you're a better person than most. Pat yourself on the back.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This isn't about "recognizing greatness". This is about ignoring cheating and calling that greatness.
     
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  4. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    The Don said it best "Belicheat"?
     
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  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just did. I feel even better. Thanks!
     
  6. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The man played for the ****ing Jets for an entire season. If that didn't make me turn on him, nothing will.
     
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He gave up $6.5m from the redskins to come play for Miami. After recording 7 sacks in 1999 he waited for Miami to offer him a contract and they didn't. They just strung him along. Miami disrespected him and the Jets wooed him.

    Fans who pay attention know he had no choice. It's not like he gave up $6.5 m to play for the Jets. He wanted Miami badly and was hurt they strung him a long.
     
  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Now Juice is calling him the best ever - so more players for some of you guys to hate.

     
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  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    What? He's saying "Tom Bamboozeled Everyone"

    Juice knows what's up.
     
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  11. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    I will because I love my team. I hope you will understand that one day.
     
  12. number21

    number21 Active Member

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  13. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You can love your own team without developing a mental disorder.
     
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  14. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    How is it mental disorder to not like a rival QB that owns us? Lol keep showing your true colors you pat fan.
     
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  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Whatever you say Stan.
     
  16. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    You're a total clown.
     
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  17. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Add me to your list of hate then. :chuckle:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    It's not. It's completely normal. Otherwise there are a large number of fans who have "mental disorders".

    I've actually warmed up a bit to Rock, even though he loves to antagonize and be abrasive. Just gotta ignore him. It's what he does.
     
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  19. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Recognize greatness?

    Sorry, I don't have respect for cheaters.
     
  20. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess you have to call most current and ex NFL players pathetic for calling Brady the GOAT.

    Apparently that includes Dolphins Hall of Famer Jason Taylor. Wait, let me guess, he's a traitor for signing with the Jets.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not about hate. It's about, "any number of a dozen other QBs could have done what Brady has done throughout his career." You essentially need a mental disorder to believe that.

    I borderline hate Peyton Manning. I also recognize he's one of the greatest of all time. I have valid reasons why he's not the greatest, but it has nothing to do with my feelings towards him.
     
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  22. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Easy now, you can make decent cheese from their milk...
     
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  23. A lot going on with his mom and family life. He may change his mind. Hard to say how her illness is going to affect his decissions.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  24. Agreed and i want to beat him while he is playing well. That window is getting smaller and smaller

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I truly don't believe that Brady retiring will all that negatively affect the Patriots. They're gonna be fine whether he retires, as long as BB is still around.
     
  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Who here has said Brady isn't great?
     
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  27. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    No one did, but I'm sure you already know words get twisted all the time around here.
     
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  28. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Someone in another thread accused people of saying the same thing. I asked the same question in return. It was just ignored. lol
     
  29. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Who is arguing what's more important?

    Adding up regular season and post season stats to create a record is funny. When a player, due to team accomplishments, gets to the post season, why should that player get special consideration over a player that played just as well (or better) in the regular season, but his team was worse and thus didn't get to the post season?

    For example, if Marino threw for 7,000 yards and 60 TD's and Brady threw for 6,000 yards and 55 TD's in the regular season, but the Pats got to the playoffs and the Dolphins didn't. In the playoffs Brady throws for 1,050 yards and 6 TD's in 3 games for a total of 7,050 yards and 61 TD's. Marino averaged 438 ypg with 3.75 TD's per game, Brady averaged 371 ypg with 3.2 TD's per game (including the playoffs). Who had the better season? If you look at individuals, Marino did. If you look at teams, the Pats did. This is why using wins as evidence for individual play is just dumb. And also why they split up regular and post season stats.

    An undefeated regular season is special, but it's not an undefeated season.
     
  30. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I will say this TOM BRADY is the best "SYSTEM" Quarterback I have ever seen.
     
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  31. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Montana, IMO, was a much better system QB.
     
  32. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All QB's play within a system, you understand that, right?

    I'm not a big fan of that statement. There's things we can use to question what he's accomplished, I don't think system is one of them because every single one of them plays within an offensive system. Their ability to understand, and execute that system with the players around them is what makes each and every one of them successful. If you're a QB playing at this level, you've got a certain level of talent. I don't doubt though for one bit that if you took Brady off NE, and stuck him on another roster he'd eventually succeed, just like Peyton Manning did. Whichever team that is, would tailor their system to his strengths. Like Denver with Peyton. Like Gase with Tannehill. Carrol with Wilson. The best coaches in this game, build their systems around the strengths of their talent on the roster. That's just common sense. The way they run that offense is irrelevant to me, regardless of the player. Because at the end of the day, the player still has to have the physical ability, mental ability, and talent to execute and make the right decisions, deliver the ball in place etc. etc. It's just a silly thing to say IMO.

    If Adam Gase had turned Tannehill around even more than he did this year what would be the story here? Tannehill has improved! Gase is a genius! Ryan Tannehill has arrived as franchise QB! It wouldn't be... Ryan Tannehill is a system QB!! Oh No's!!! Cleary the system Gase has installed benefited Ryan. The modifications to that system allowed Matt Moore to be successful too. That's just the way good coaches do things with good players. That doesn't take anything away from their talent level. It's just using it more effectively, and efficiently. It's jus the smart thing to do in this league.

    Would you try and make Russel Wilson a pure pocket passer? Not likely. Does that mean he's a bad QB? No. Not at all. He plays the position a different way. Completely opposite from Tom Brady actually, but at the end of the day they're both successful because of the situation and system they're in. The same holds true for all of them IMO. A guy like Brady though, he can make all the throws. He understands coverages, blitzes, he's seen it all. He's limited from a mobility standpoint, but there's not really a system he couldn't play IMO. I see Aaron Rodgers the same way. He's going to be successful regardless because he's... got the necessary skills to succeed at the position regardless. Sure, certain systems fit a players skillset better, but... there's nothing at all wrong with that. No two players are identical. That NE offense has changed over the years he's been there. From more vertical in the days of Moss, to the short stuff now. He still hits deep too though. He can do it all.
     
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  33. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    It's how a QB does when that system breaks down. QB's like Brady, fall apart. QB's like Rodgers and Marino, thrive.
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't see him fall apart Sunday. Clearly the Atlanta D had them stumped early. They adjusted. He adjusted. Their coaches put them in a better position to succeed. Lets face it... Atlanta's D wore down because Brady and that offense kept them on the field. Just look at the time of possession and compare the number of plays run Offensively. That's good players. Executing. I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion right now because we don't like the guy. I'm tired of him too. I'm tired of that whole team. That doesn't mean the guy isn't good. So, he doesn't get outside the pocket a lot, scramble, and make thigns happen, so that makes him less of a QB because of... system? Or something. I just don't see it that way. Also, pretty sure on Sunday a play broke down, he avoided pressure, escaped the pocket and ran for a 15 yard gain I think. Often times though, yes, they don't get in that kind of position because the ball is gone quickly. You can easily make the argument we were transitioning to that type of offense ourselves. I don't see that as a negative agianst the guy. It's that simple IMO.
     
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  35. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I would take Marino all day everyday over Brady. I dislike Brady very much, but to imply he is not great is whacked.

    Also, to claim any other QB could do what Brady has done and then try to imply one is not saying Brady isn't great is also whacked.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    As always, there's forever argument problems using phrases that people haven't agreed on the definition of. "System quarterback" is basically like "clutch" or "elite". There's a number fo definitions people apply to these words than argue with each other about using them on a given player, even though the arguers are using different definitions.

    Take the word "elite". Person X may think elite means top 3 active qb while Person Y thinks elite means top 5 QB all time. X can be saying Russell Wilson is elite and Y can think that's ridiculous but stipulate Wilson is very good. That argument can go on for awhile.

    As far as system QB, that, to me, means you can take a specific QB out of the lineup and replace him and have little to no drop-off. That would show that the specific QB isn't all that important, as its the system that makes the QB look good. That doesn't mean that QB won't necessarily do well somewhere else per se, or is a scrub or anything.

    Following my definition (your's may be different), Brady is a system QB as they don't suffer all that much with him out fo the lineup.
     
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  37. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair enough. I agree, it is a term that's tossed around with many different meanings to different people. I knew that comment was coming eventually though about his backups stepping in and doing well :lol:

    I think they're able to coach and gameplan around missing Brady for a while because everyone else in that lineup is so sound in that system around him, but he's still miles beyond the level a guy like Cassel, or Jimmy G could provide. I think watching the two run that offense, sure statistically the results may be similar, but they're better off with Brady if they're looking to get to the promised land. For example, if Jimmy G played all year because Brady was hurt, and not suspended for just 4 games, you can't convince me that they would have still made it to, and won the Super Bowl this year.

    I mean, we saw it with our own squad this year. We lost Tannehill. Moore comes in, plays well enough to get us into the playoffs, but I wouldn't say that level of play was better than Tannehill. We even modified the system to fit Moore. To think that NE runs out there with the same type of game plan that they would with Jimmy G out there, as opposed to Brady just isn't correct to me. They're likely dumbing things down for him, making those reads easier for him. It's a tricky thing, especially since we don't know what's going on in those meeting rooms and gameplanning sessions. They're just efficient. That system has been there so long. The "Patriot Way" trickles down from the vets to the rooks. They just get it. Be prepared, do what you're told/taught and you'll be fine, or you'll be gone.

    It was interesting to me hearing Chris Long talk about that at the Super Bowl after the game.. He admitted he went into halftime a bit stunned how things were going and he was amazed in that locker room. There was no yelling, no screaming, just coaches working with players on adjustments. The newcomers to the team were all a little stunned, but the vets were stone cold solid, no panic, they just told the youngsters... do your job. We'll be fine. Don't panic. We got this. There's a lot to be said for the stability in the organization. Most teams never achieve that because of constant change, and the constant desire to make a big splash in free agency and acquire big talent that may, or may not fit their system. They buy into the hype though of past performance, and often it doesn't work out. Mike Wallace in Miami is a good example of that. I know, I'm getting off topic here, but in a way.. .it's things like that in my opinion that really help a backup QB in NE come in, and excel. It's not because he's as good as Brady, or because Brady isn't as good as people think. He's clearly better than those guys, but those guys can succeed because they're prepared to play, because the staff gameplans well around that backup coming in. The concepts and routes might still be the same in that offense with Jimmy G in there, but there's ways of making it easier on him, and dumbing it down so it's easier for him to execute. We saw that in our own offense this year when Tannehill was struggling early, the offense was dumbed down a bit to make the reads easier, and the productivity increase followed.

    I just don't think the statement of "they don't suffer all that much with him out fo the lineup" is entirely true. They don't, sure, but I don't think that they don't suffer because he's easily replaceable, but more-so because they're just that well coached and prepared, and they make the necessary changes to ensure team success. The talent drop off is still there, they just cover it up well. To me, that's where I have the problem with the "system qb" argument, it's a way of trying to take away the talent and accomplishments, and I don't think that's accurate at all.

    I think we've opened up one of those cans of worms here that's going to create a nightmare thread and a whole new argument for everyone. :lol:

    My apologies for this being so long winded.. It's a slow morning at work. :lol:
     
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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    No one has said that Brady isn't great. A few of us have questioned how great due to the pats cheating scandals.

    I'd take quite a few more QB's than Brady. Marino included...
     
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  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    :chuckle:
     
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  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Whoever said a dozen qbs could have done the same. Whoever says the Patriots won't skip a beat when Brady is gone.

    You see, one can't claim he is great, then say he is expendable.
     
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