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Stills Situation

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by msmith8893, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. msmith8893

    msmith8893 New Member

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    Extending Kenny Stills seems to be a solid move after last season's performance, but honestly, how much would you consider paying him if you were in the front office? Keeping in mind that he's looking to get paid. If you were to not offer Stills the deal he's looking for, who would you look to for a proper WR replacement?
     
  2. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    7m a year tops. As for a replacement.. I have no idea.
     
  3. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure he'll get $10, but I would assume he'll get at least $8.5 to $9.5.
     
  4. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Not the same player. But I would certainly bring in Victor Cruz for a look. I'd want to see what his legs are like, but you can be the wants to prove he is the player he was. You could probably get him on a show me deal. And given his penchant for making big plays out of short passes in the past he may fit the offense.
     
  5. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    Kenny Stills=<Ted Ginn

    Gets to where he can drop the ball faster than anyone else on the field. Occasionally catches some balls and makes some big plays.
    Ginn is > because he single handedly beat the Jets
    Stills might have become my favorite player if he would have just caught the flippin ball right in front of me at the Shehacks game last year. But he di'int so...
     
  6. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    It will take about $9-$9.5 million a year over 4 years factoring in bonuses etc.

    $7 million is barely above the #'s Hartline signed here. Isn't happening.

    Landry's extension will probably be along the lines of Doug Baldwin's contract.
     
  7. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    well we can't depend on Parker. so if we lose Stills, we are screwed
     
  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Stills is the second best receiver on the team and the only WR who can consistently get behind defensive backs. He is much better now than Wallace was when the Dolphins signed him as a free agent.

    Parker has not yet shown that he can be a productive WR over the course of an entire season and I don't view him as a better WR than Stills. Instead of overpaying for a player another team doesn't want to pay. The Dolphins need to start signing their own free agents who have shown they are productive on the field.

    They need to do everything they can to resign Stills and even if that means signing him to a contact at $10 million a year, so be it.
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Stills struggled in his first year away from Brees, then he and RT developed some chemistry and he looks more comfortable out there. Hell, he didn't even miss a beat with Moore playing.

    Remember in 2014 when we all were convinced Ryan had broken out and would jump into the top 8-10 QB's in football the following year?? Well...they got rid of two of his top 3 passing targets a 1000 yd 10 TD guy and his security blanket at TE (Wallace and Clay). We all know how bad he fell off in 2015.

    My point is, IDC if Stills can only be a deep threat...PAY HIM...OVERPAY if you must. But we look to have a QB who is on the verge of being a top 8-10 QB so for once let him keep his playmaking WR's!!! Do we want to see the regression we saw before? No.

    For the sake of this QB and the sake of this team keep our little fast Kimmy Stills. Ryan needs her.
     
  10. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    If parker didnt have the injury concerns he does, i wouldnt be in the "pay whatever it takes to keep him" camp, but i am...

    Him and RT have great chemistry, he knows the offense now and he can get deep on anyone. we have enough holes on defense, dont want to start worrying about what is now our strongest unit
     
  11. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    He's the type of player that can be a game changer regardless who the QB is (usually). You keep those players.
     
  12. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Kenny Stills will not be a Dolphin in 2017. He wants #1 WR money and he will probably get it. But the Dolphins have Landry, they took Parker in the 1st round and they're obviously high on Caroo. I like Stills, I will be a fan of his so long as he's not in the AFCE. I hope he signs a mega deal, it won't be with Miami though. 9+ million for a #3 WR is insane.
     
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  13. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    i think he's a #2 WR...even if they pay him 9 mil a year...it would be something like 4 years, 36 million, 22 mil guaranteed...so that's a 18 mil signing bonus, with this year and next years salary guaranteed...that puts his cap number at about 6 million dollars. We can definitely afford to keep him at that price.

    The real kicker is going to be Landry. We are looking at 6 year, 60 million, with probably 35 guaranteed. That is going to be crazy money...

    That is a lot of money locked up in 2 players at the same position in the same year.
     
  14. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

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    Kneels during our National Anthem, wants to be social just sanfran. Let him walk .sorry if this offends but i have no need to hear his name.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    keep your politics out of it.
     
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  16. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    Gotta figure payin Julius Thomas $8-10mm per will affect him with respect to him be willing to take a hometeam discount. Cap room could have been his. Not sure I prefer that trade off, bc if you're gonna pay, pay for the big play and points, which is all Stills.
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am pretty conservative and I would personally give Stills $$$$ if I was the owner. Hell a lot of the owners are conservative.

    We gave Mike Wallace how much money when the cap was lower? We need to sign Stills.
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    If the budget allowed, I'd pay him $9-$10 mil. I doubt we can afford that salary, however.

    I fear the only way we can keep him is if he gives us a "discount". He's worth whatever a team will pay him.
     
  19. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the difference there though is we signed Mike Wallace to be a #1WR, which was a mistake IMO. I'm not trying to revive the Wallace debate, but he's just not a #1WR in that sense IMO.

    I don't think we can treat Kenny Stills as a #1 WR when it comes to his salary either. I hope Kenny & his agent are smart enough to realize that he's not a #1 WR. To me, he's a role guy that takes advantage of opportunities presented by other's in the offense. He benefited in the Saints system due to the presence of other WR's. I think he's benefited here largely due to our offense running through Jarvis Landry, and predominantly being a short quick passing game. He's limited physically based on his size IMO. His biggest asset is speed IMO. He's not just fast, he's quick too, and runs good quick routes and plays the ball well deep (except that Seattle one.. doh!) and then of course there's his efficiency numbers. I think I really will be surprised if he gets a deal in the $9-$11 range. At that point, I'd back away no matter how much I want him back. I'd do it at the 7-8 range though in a heartbeat.

    The fear is that someone will, especially given the desperation and cap situations of some teams. Also, the problem we have is Landry coming due, and Parker eventually and not really seeing fully what Parker is going to be because of his limited action. If you do Stills, and you do Landry's deal. Are either of them a #1WR? I don't think so. I think they're both ideal fits for a 2 and 3. They're both 2's in my eyes, but it seems like both are going to view themselves as 1's. Ideally, I'd love to keep Parker, Stills and Landry. If Parker can become that big bodied WR with a big catch radius, or similar to Demarious Thomas, and you have Landry keep doing what he does, and Stills as the mid to deep/big play guy, with a pass catching TE... my gosh... That's going to be difficult to do though. Tough decision to be made here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    "Kenny Stills to Philadelphia has been an open secret for weeks before agents and teams are officially allowed to talk about potential deals starting March 7. It is so well known in league circles that NJ.com reported weeks ago the Eagles would be targeting Stills if he made it to free agency.

    And that report is correct, sources confirm.

    So that leaves the Dolphins in an unenviable position because they are aware that a bidder exists and the likely price for their player is quite high. And so far the Dolphins have not been ready to climb to the price plateau the Eagles -- in dire need of a speedy, deep-threat receiver -- seem poised to reach.

    The Dolphins, per sources, have had internal discussions about all their free agents and placed monetary values on those players relative to their cap structure. And paying Kenny Stills $12 million per season is nowhere close to the model the Dolphins feel comfortable about.

    It is not known how high the Dolphins are willing to go to keep Stills. Stills and his representatives are likely to know in the coming week after they meet with the team. But the Dolphins so far do not intend to be the high bidder."




     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Receivers is one group that's going to be a litmus test for Gase and the FO. It's so easy to look at that essential group and simply hunt for big names and elite talent; the Dolphins have, as we know, done that before. The reality is that you can't plan on long term success and pigeon-hole the WR spots for constant high expenditure. That's not to say WR talent and elite talent doesn't matter. It does, and can be a huge factor in success. However, overall, an NFL team looking for long term success needs to be able to find and develop talent in this crucial area. They need to be able to find talent others miss and/or coach and use talent to bring success. Ideally you find an elite receiver in the draft, or land one in free agency at the right point in his career and for a good deal. But overpaying at WR is a major danger. It might be the trickiest contract to negotiate.

    The Dolphins organisation has to show growth here. It needs to prove that it can build up a solid WR corps without breaking the bank. Stills is good but not great. They must not overpay for him and they must not be afraid to lose him. That's not to say that they can survive without him, but if the Dolphins are to be successful then they need to be able to lose players like Stills and still be able to grow and move on.

    Landry are Parker are good receivers. They're maybe not the #1 option teams hope for, but neither are they stiffs. Gase has to build a strong receiver corps, TE's included, to enable this team to win, with or without Stills. If he, or his coaches can't do it, then he or his coaches might not be the solution.

    I'll be watching this one with interest. Not just the fate of Stills, but how it's handled. With all the other needs, if the Dolphins lose Stills then I'll be hoping we don't see some crazy draft move to reach on a WR or spend multiple draft picks on one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  22. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I posted in another thread last week that I thought he could command as high as 13-14 mil per. Already were seeing numbers in the 12 mil range.

    He's pretty much gone at this point. There is no way the Dolphins can or will match that kind of money, not when they are staring down contracts for Landry and Parker. It's too bad really. He is much better than many here give him credit for and he has great ability to get behind defenders, a skill we do not have on this team beyond him on the roster currently. Not easy to replace 9 td's.

    What we need to be asking is who can we replace him with?
     
  23. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Parker still has 2 more years and an option year, so I don't think he really bears heavy on the Stills decision. Not to mention he's been unhealthy, so it's hard to forecast whether or not he'd be a target for a second contract as it stands right now. I agree with you on the Jarvis Landry part.
     
  24. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    And that is a totally fair point on Parker. He has been inconsistent at best and constantly seems dinged up. Hopefully, as so many others do, he will finally come on in his third year. Fact is we really need him to become what we hoped he would when we drafted him since we will loose Stills.
     
  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I think we need to get used to the idea that stills will not be back next year. No way are we paying him 12 mil+ per year he does not have the production for it and we have too many other holes to fill. Ted Ginn put up similar or better numbers than stills the last couple of years and is actually a bit faster. He is alot older than stills but he will come a whole lot cheaper. He just resigned drew rosenhaus as his agent so I think there is a good chance ginn will be a dolphin again. I would also draft another deep threat and hope caroo develops better in his second year.

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
  26. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    13 to 14 would be crazy money.
     
  27. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd sign him for $8mil per year in a heartbeat, maybe go up to $9.5 mil, but $12 mil and above? No way. Without a #1 WR to take attention off of him, or without being able to play as the #3 WR, Stills will struggle to achieve the success he had with the Saints/Dolphins.

    I think Thomas at TE will get around 8-9 TDs for us, so that production at TE will make up for those lost TDs. What we do need is a speed WR who can go deep and demand safety help. I think we should look at the best speed WR left in the fourth or early fifth round and use those two fifth round comp picks to move up and get him. Odds are the guy struggles with catching or routes, but if we can hit often enough for the defense to respect the deep pass we should still see success underneath.

    Now, Parker may put it together and he can bring down those contested deep passes, which also makes up for Stills leaving. Thomas at TE may draw enough attention with seam routes to keep things open underneath too.

    A combination of those things may have us wishing Stills well, but happy NOT to have paid him the big contract. Plus, we take that cap space and sign a Guard and LB? Or Ingram at DE? Sounds pretty good actually.
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    What about $11,999,999.95?


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  29. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the front office needs to do a better job of evaluating their own talent and identifying those situations where you can do a deal with your own player earlier for a better deal, rather than letting free agency roll around and paying through the nose. Sure, losing him might net us a compensatory pick next year, but are we really in a position we can let talent walk (especially a 24 year old talent) just so we can get a late 3rd?

    For that kind of money that's being rumored for Stills, we're better off using that to fill another hole and keep some of that for Landry. Hopefully they're smart enough to do Landry's deal sooner, rather than later if then intend on keeping him around.
     
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  30. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    Why do we keep waiting for guys to become FA, does tannenbaum not know how to extend someone?
     
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  31. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think that's fair. It takes two parties to sign a contract, and with a lot of teams willing to overpay for free agents there really isn't a reason not to try to drive your price up. At least if you aren't going to paid like you thought you would you can most likely resign with your last team. Kenny Stills wasn't great for the Phins until we got a proper offensive play-caller this year, his contract year, and at that point he probably already had his mind made up. It's even easier to wait for free agency when your agent is getting reliable reports about another team starting the bid at 12m a season. I wonder if the Dolphins would be willing to pay a bit more for Stills considering the state of Florida doesn't have that tax.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    both Landry and Jones are supposed to get extensions this offseason.

    To be honest, I do not think they knew exactly what they had in Stills. maybe Stills just decided he wanted to make a bunch of money and worked his butt off, or maybe he turned a corner. I do not think Stills was in their long term plans last offseason.
     
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  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Let's remember too that this was Gase's first year. A lot of things were up in the air. No pun intended.
     
  34. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    This.

    If the rumors are true that Stills is seeking 12 million per year over at least four years, we're far better off letting him walk. That's a contract I guarantee would be viewed as an unjustifiable overpay two years down the road by whoever inks him to that ludicrous contract, and I highly doubt he would play out the entirety it. This is very reminiscent of the 2013 Mike Wallace contract, only we are on the other side of the table this time. Let's be smart, like Pittsburgh was, and let someone else swallow that pill. Worked out okay for them.
     
  35. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I think would be probably fair 8/9 Mil for Stills, most likely he will get more. Is always the option to look for a speedy WR in the middle round, I personally like Stacy Coley from the U, is fast, is 6.1 with good hands and a little feisty
     
  36. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    Yes, there are a lot of good speed options in this draft class, and I think Stills is easily replaceable in that regard. The thing that concerns me the most with our current wide receiver corps is how young it is, so if we were to bring in another rookie, we would be wise to supplement that decision with a veteran. Someone like Anquan Boldin, Victor Cruz, Vincent Jackson, or Pierre Garcon would do wonders in terms of leadership for that group.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do not agree. IMO, Stills is a better receiver overall than Mike Wallace.
     
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  38. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, but I believe Tyler was just referring to the fact that Stills projects to be grossly overpaid by the time free agency is over, much like Mike Wallace was. 12 million a year is right in between T.Y. Hilton and Doug Baldwin. Both of those guys have been more productive than Stills. With that being said, these reports tell me that teams believe he can (or was able) to produce more than he has so far. That's a gamble I don't know if the front office wants to take.
     
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  39. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion, at this point in Wallace's career he had 4000 yds and 32 TDs.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Because I just don't blindly look at yards.
     
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