Day of Reckoning.....

Love Tanniac


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EDIT: upon further review, don't even read this article. By the end it insinuates Ryan Tannehills a loser because Ryan Gosling's name comes up first in a Google search for the name "Ryan". Ridiculous.

Giving Matt Moore credit for the Buffalo game is proof of bias right off the bat. That was easily Moore's worst performance. Only 53% completion, threw a pick in the endzone, couldn't move the ball for **** in the 2nd half. That game was entirely won off Ajayis 200yd performance and some pretty bad coaching on Rex's part in the 4th.

We all knew we'd see articles like this if Moore got us to the playoffs in the wake of Tannys injury.

For the record, not hating on Moore. I'm extremely appreciative of his effort this year. Just by no means do I think the 3 games he won were better than the 7 attributed to Ryan.

 

Miami has bigger issues right now than qb. How many quality statters do they have on defense?


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The thing about tanehill is he gets payed like an elite qb and has had elite expectations following him throughout his career. The fact is he is an above average NFL starting QB, however he is not elite. He will never be at the level of a Tom Brady Mat Ryan, Derrick Rodgers and Drew Brees type of elite QB.

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He is not paid like an elite QB.

This is why these discussions go off the rails.

 

Yes he is paid like an elite QB. His average annual salary is 19.3 million, matt Ryan 20 million, tom Brady 20.4 million, drew brees 20 million, aaron rodgers is also around 20 mil.

They are all around the 20 mil mark, yet tanehill's production and level of play is not anywhere near that of the other four.

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If these numbers are correct for 2017 yeah he's paid about the same as other elite QBs.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2017/

You can't just look at rankings you also have to look at differential. If $500k separated #5 from #15 you can say all 10 are paid around the same.

I am not of the opinion that Tanny's contract is so terrible but a spade is a spade.

 

Of course both of you ignored CKs thread about capflation.

 

I didn't ignore it. I already said I don't have an issue with his contract.

The comment was he was paid like elite QBs. Well there are elite QBs who get paid like Tanny.

I mean, the facts are what they are. There are elite QBs making roughly what Tanny does. resnor said that isn't true. But it is.

Look at 2017. If those numbers are accurate He's gonna make the same as Rodgers. More than Wilson. Brees. Newton. Big Ben.

 

It's stupid to compare Tannehill's current contract, to contracts that were signed years ago, or, are crazy low because the player took massive pay cuts to benefit the team.

If Brady, Rodgers, Matt Ryan, or Brees got a new contract tomorrow, they'd be paid much more than Tannehill.

 

You could have led off with that. But you didn't. Instead you decided to be condescending with a false fact

 

Sure, if you ignore reason and an understanding of inflation and just play a pure straight up semantic game.

 

No, he made a cogent argument that humans who pay attention and grasp normal conversations understood perfectly.

Basically, you heard a Dolphin fan say he hopes they kill the Jets and you are saying he wants our team to literally murder the other team.

 

Here's something to chew on.

 

Kirk cousins is lookng at 24 million or so.

If Tannehill hit the open market he'd get more than what his contract is now.

Tannehill is worth what the market will pay for him. If there was a cheaper replacement available the phins would have cut him and moved on.

Was I pleased with Tannehill ladt year? No.
Do i think we can replace his production with a cheaper FA QB? No

 

I was displeased with Tannehill last year...until I tight about first year in a new system, and an oline that was still bad.

Totally agree, that right now, there isn't a cheaper, better alternative.

 

Not to mention, how was it condescending? I stated two facts. He is not paid like an elite QB, and, stating erroneous information like it's a fact is why these discussions get out of control.

 

If you want to cherry pick one season, then yes, RT is being paid "elite" money. However, if you look at his entire contract you'll come to the real truth. And that is, RT gets paid about average.

Those implying that RT has an elite contract aren't looking at the entire picture.


For example, take two people doing the same job. One guy has been doing it for 15 years and the other for 5. The 15 yr veteran makes $150,000 per year while the other guy makes $50,000. Everything is as it should be. However, during one day of that year the 5 year vet works 17 hours and the 15 year vet works 8. Because of OT etc the 5 yr guy made more money on that day. Is he now being paid "15 year veteran money"? No, he is not.

 

RT, if you go by yearly average, is 14th in the league. If you go by total contract value, he's 13th.

 

Andrew Luck has the second biggest QB contract in the league. Jay Cutler is 1st. Andrew Luck's total contract is worth $45 mil more than RT's. He is also paid nearly $5 mil more per season on average (1st in the league).

Is Luck's contract overboard?

 

You did not state two facts, I did state facts. You making hypothetical judgments about what the Brady's and matt ryans of the league could get if they had new contracts is not fact. The fact is that right now RT makes about the same per year as brady, ryan, rodgers, and brees do eventhough his performance isn't anywhere near their performances. Hence he is in fact overpaid.

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Completely bogus analogy. We are comparing annual salaries which is an apples to apples comparison. We are not comoaring yearly vs daily salaries as you suggest in your analogy. Fact is right now RT makes as much per year as the top QBs in the league while not performing anywhere near the top. That is the definition of being overpaid.

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Yes, andrew luck is overpaid considering his level of play. Same as RT is.

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Yes, in essence, you are. You're cherry picking "days" instead of looking at the contracts in their entirety. Not many people believe that RT is overpaid. Know why? Because he's not. He's paid around the middle of the pack in regards to QB contracts.


QB's get paid a lot of money. The difference, on average per year, between the highest paid and 20th highest paid QB is about $6.5 mil ($24.5 mil vs $18 mil). If you divide that between them all evenly it's only $325,000 per spot. So, claiming that a $1 million difference between QB's is nothing is either not understanding the topic or something else. For example, the difference between Brady and RT's contracts is $1.25 mil per year on average, or nearly 4 times that amount.

 

With any discussion of "is pkayer X overpaid?". Looking at what their peers are paid isn't that useful a tool for several reasons.
1) It assumes their Peers are being paid "fair value". Players give discounts tonteams for loyalty, belief in a coach or system, because the team has bardaining leverage in extending contracts by offering guaranteed money now in exchange for a lower annual salary that can be voided due to injury, etc.
2) The rookie cap
3) capflation as CK calls it.

The better way to guage whether a player is overpaid is to ask the question "how much would itt cost to replace his level of expected future production with a FA?"
The Dolphins brains trust obviously do not see a viable FA replacement out there. There's no talk of cutting RT to sign another, there's no talk of a trade.

Players who are genuinely overpaid get cut. Adrian Petersen is a classic example. There was even talk about cutting him before 2016 because no RB adds that much value to a team in this era. If the contract condition is onerous the team might carry them for a year in the hope of improved performance, but that usually comes with talk of renegotiating their salary down.

There simply is no evidence that the Dolphins think Tannehill is overpaid. In which case if you think RT is overpaid what better and cheaper FA has been available last year or this year?

 

Brady is a classic example for what you're saying. He, due to his own volition, has taken many "pay cuts" in order to both stay with the Pats and allow the Pats to bring in players they deemed critical in winning.

 

Just stop it. Any QB who is on an old contract is getting paid on what contracts were worth 3 or 4 seasons ago. A QB contract is worth more today than 4 seasons ago. So, no, you can't compare Tannehill's contract to one signed 3 years prior. You also cannot compare to Brady who took a large payout to benefit his team.

 

I've said this elsewhere, and I'll say it here again.

What Ryan Tannehill is being paid, is the cost of doing business in the NFL for having a competent QB who's not on a rookie deal. You can't really be concerned by it unless you're in the position to draft a new rookie QB capable of starting. This is the going rate for a QB in the NFL not on a rookie deal. Sure, some guys are going to come in higher, some are going to come in lower but they're all going to be in that neighborhood. Comparing his deal to Brady, or Ryan etc isn't very valuable IMO. It's a misleading argument. The timing of those deals, and then of course the length of those deals effects the average annuals.

So, unless you have a guy on the roster who's ability is on par or better than that of your established veteran QB, that's the price you're going to pay. It is what it is in the NFL. If you aren't in the position to draft someone, or play someone cheaper, that's the price you pay. It's unavoidable in the NFL. We don't have the luxury of cutting bait with Tannehill right now. Who do you play if you do? Want to sign a vet instead? What are you going to do, go and grab Jay Cutler, or Tony Romo? They're still both going to command big deals as well, and you're likely going to be overpaying for that production too. The only time you're going to be ahead of the QB salary game is if you're fortunate enough to draft one who works out and shoots to stardom like Prescott has, and Wilson had. Eventually though, you're going to pay the piper. For some teams, that middle of the road QB they feel is all they need. That's where Miami is with Tannehill IMO. He's here. He's competent. He's good enough to end the search for a high round pick to be an immediate starter. That to me, doesn't mean he's free from competition or other investment in the position, but it does mean you're going to bite the bullet for competent QB play and build around him. That's just the price you're going to pay for a non rookie QB.

There's nothing you can do about it, unless you're willing to just cycle through QB after QB when their rookie deals expire.

Can you argue that you could have another vet of Tannehill at this point? Sure... I guess.... but guess what, you're going to pay for him too!

 

Everything you wrote is 100% correct!

However, what some people fail to admit is that RT is getting paid middle of the road pay in regards to QB contracts. It's as if they just see "$20 mil" and determine it's too much. They don't bother to look at other contracts, or if they do they cherry pick it or don't understand it, and yet they still spew the "he's overpaid" rhetoric.

 

I'm not saying there is anything better in the FA market nowadays, but I do think we could have negotiated tannehill's contract and his extension better. How can you justify paying him brees, brady, rodgers and ryan money if he has never performed to their level? Mind you none of the four elite QBs I just mentioned are on their rookie deals either yet they are making about as much as RT while consistently outperforming him by a large margin.

The fact of the matter is RT's productivity does not match his pay, not even close, and that in essence is the definition of being overpaid.

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He's not getting Brees ($5 mil more per season), Brady ($1.25 mil more per season), Rodgers ($2.75 mil more per season), or Ryan ($1.5 mil more per season) money.


Again, you realize $7 mil is the difference between top paid and 20th paid, right? So, $1.5 mil is a BIG difference between two QB's.

 

Hitman, you're ignoring that average contacts have increased since any of those guys got their deals. What are those guys worth, today, if they signed a new contract? More than their current contract, I'll guarantee that, for sure.

 

Not even that. The 4 he mentioned are getting WAY more money than RT if you understand the contracts and pay scales. Again, the difference between the highest paid QB and the 20th paid QB, in regards to yearly average, is only $7 mil. That averages out to about $325,000 per rank. So, even in Brady's very friendly contract (where he made like $25 million in just the signing bonus) he's still making much more than RT per year.


(Edit- Brady had a $38 million signing bonus worked into his contract)

 

lol...if you look at RT's and Brady's contracts, and add in their yearly signing bonus, Brady will make nearly $12 million more than RT next season.


/thread

 

Nice work, Dan.

 

Care to share a link? Info I have seen has Brady with an average annual salary of 20.4 million, Tannehill is at 19.3 million.

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