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Why are Dolphins loading up on bums?

Discussion in 'SoapBox - Rants forum' started by iamtiv, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I played TE my freshman year of high school. I'm similar to Cameron and Thomas, let's not ignore this...


    I love your "analytical" thinking. haha
     
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is a very good point. Totally relevant. You really showed your analytical and critical thinking skills there. Oh wait...

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    lol...I'm amazed that my joke was able to make it over that point on your head.
     
  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Extremely well my backside. If there was anything extreme about his play last season it was how bad it was.

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  5. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I'm assuming this is more of your "because you said so" talk?

    In reality, you have no idea what's going on. Steen played very well at times last year. As I wrote before, he had some down times too, but again, he was basically a rookie playing a new position in his first games on a new team.
     
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  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of your half assed attempt at a joke. It would be better if you would actually have good point to make but I think that is too much to ask of your sheepish brain I know you have a gripe with me and will contradict anything I say.
    You are the one trying to contradict every post I make. Steen did not play "extremely well" at any time last season as you said. He alternated between playing extremely bad and not completely sucking. At most his play was passable at times.

    That is the fact of how he played regardless of whatever excuses you make for him. That's all you do is make up excuses for every player and coach on the team whenever somebody critisizes them.

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  7. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with the FA approach. First of all I don't believe you should judge the offseason after the first week. The draft and June 1st cuts bring a ton of talent so I prefer to judge the whole. Second, I see Timmons and Hayes as clear upgrades and Thomas/Fasano as a very probable upgrade. And I see Larsen and Allen as improving our depth, at a minimum. I love that we locked up Stills and Jones. IMO the biggest difference between the D that dominated Pitt early in the season and the one that lost to Pitt in the playoffs was Jones. Also, other than the Branch contract, I feel that we got good value. While I would have loved to bring in another vet G, there's no way I would have favored paying those over-inflated contracts. The market just wasn't favorable to addressing those positions.
     
  8. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Steen is exactly the type of scrappy OL who could be one of those low drafted/undrafted guys who goes on to have a 10 year career. Guy went from college to the pros after getting surgery on his shoulder and fought to get on this roster and due to injuries got into the lineup. It was hit and miss but before the injuries piled up and forced him out he had done enough to make me wonder about the future with him. So yes I am curious if he got a shot at his natural right guard spot if he could turn into a solid starter for us and I did say I wasn't handing him the job. He's a strong guy (he can bench over 500lbs) and finally coming into a season healthy, who could be a pretty efficient run blocker for Ajayi. The thing that could be problematic is he's got some short arms and small hands.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Who cares how similar their histories are? You cannot use one to predict the other.

    What you are doing is done by a lot of fans across many sports....but it's wrong.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    History is the best predictor of future behavior. We should have learned from the cameron mistake and not put out our hopes on another injury prone TE. There is a chance it will work out, but it's still a gamble.

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  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Evidently you didn't get the joke.

    I don't have a gripe with you. I don't know you. I do, however, think you know little about football and instead use your emotions to judge players etc.

    Steen started 7 games last season. In his first 5 starts as an NFL rookie, and playing a position he wasn't really familiar with, he was the only person to NOT give up a sack for the Dolphins. Albert, Tunsil, Bushrod, and James had already given up multiple sacks by this time and Steen hadn't given up one.

    In a couple of the weeks that he started PFF (which I know you love) had him graded out as a top 10 or higher center.

    Once more, a rookie, on a new team, playing a new position, on a mediocre line, at times played extremely well. Calling a player like him, in his position "horrible", is just dumb.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Not between two different people that have nothing to do with one another.
     
  13. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I actually think the guy will be one of our starting OG's this year. I still want to draft one and pick one up after the cuts, but I like Steen and, contrary to what hitman8 thinks, he graded out very well in a few weeks last year.

    Also, I read somewhere that his hands were measured at 10"...is that small for an OG?
     
  14. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You're wasting your time. lol
     
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  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Thomas history is that of being very injury prone. Hence there is a good chance his future will be plagued by injuries.

    Is that easier for you to understand now?

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  16. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Again, what does that have to do with Cameron?
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He also has a history of 12 TD seasons. lol
     
  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You guys are really dense. Our experience with cameron should give us pause in trusting the TE position with another injury prone TE.

    Is the concept of situation A being very similar to situation B so difficult for you to understand?

    We have had too many injuries on this team to not be worried about signing injury prone players. We should be signing and depending on players that have proven themselves to be durable and dependable.

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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Easier for me to understand now?

    Read very carefully....

    You claimed what happened to Cameron affects what will happen to Thomas. That was, unabashedly stupid. They are two different people and have nothing to do with each other in any way.

    Then you decided to say Thomas' history will dictate Thomas' future which is, finally, accurate...but you're the one that needed to be handheld and walked to that correct conclusion, by me I might add.

    So when you ask if it's easier for me to understand....it makes you sound ridiculous, actually.
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Being cautious about an injury prone player is valid. Being cautious about one player because another player was injury prone is not valid.

    One of my first cars was a 1954 Caddy. I currently have a 2015 Caddy. I don't have the same concerns with my current car because it's a Caddy like the '54. lol
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Don't be calling people dense when you think anything that happened with player X has **** all do to with what will happen to player Y. They aren't the same.

    Do you think dammarino, could make assumptions about my future based on your future...I mean, after all, we're both posters on this site talking about the TE position.

    It's dumb.
     
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  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    If both our histories were similar, then yes you could make some assumptions that both our futures could be similar as well.

    I really don't know why that is such a hard concept for you to understand. We got rid of one injury prone former pro bowler TE to sign another injury prone former pro bowler TE.

    My point is we should not be trusting the starting TE position to injury prone players. I'm trying to break it down to the lowest common denominator for you.

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  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO it's best not to use broad assumptions and assume that all injuries are equal. Personally, I wouldn't equate repeated concussions that JC suffered with the broken hand/finger or ankle sprains that Thomas had. They all caused lost playing time but I see the concussions as far more concerning. The back strain that Thomas suffered does give me pause, but AFAIK it's the only occurrence. By all accounts he's checked out physically and is currently healthy. Obviously he or any other player could be injured next year, but I don't see any reason to project that his risk of injury is higher than average.
     
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  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    But Cameron got injured man!! So we have to worry about Thomas.
     
  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Seriously, you should smack yourself.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Our histories are similar.

    We were both born. We both grew up and aged. We both are Dolphin fans. We both joined this site. We both eat food. We both drink fluids. See, we're the same.

    The simple fact of the matter is that you can make anything similar. These guys have nothing to do with one another. Nothing. You're just wrong and need to accept it.
     
  27. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Your analogy is completely irrelevant and only further shows your complete lack of criticial thinking skills.

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  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Hahahahahahahahaha.

    "Herp derp, Thomas equals Jordan herp derp, believe me or you're stupid...."

    Ok man. You keep being your ignorant self. Have fun with it.
     
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  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody ever said Thomas equals Jordan.

    I said they have similar histories and our experience with cameron should make us think twice about trusting the TE position to another injury prone player.

    Doesn't mean that thomas will definitely be a failure just like Cameron I never said that. There is a chance it will work out and I hope it does, but it is a gamble and you acting like its not doesn't make it so.

    I would have much preferred if we got a proven durable tight end to trust the starting position to.





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  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The chance of Thomas working out or not has nothing to do with Cameron not working out. There is no lesson to learn. They have dissimilar playing and injury histories and they are two completely different people.

    The reason my analogy was dead nuts is because the similarities you're pointing to are arbitrary just as the similarities I used in the analogy.

    Take the Pro Bowl similarity you keep parroting like it has a bearing on what will happen. Randy Moss was a Pro Bowl receiver....so was Brian Hartline. Can we derive anything important about Hartline based on Moss? No, of course not.

    You'd have a better chance at making a salient point if you were talking about players with the same injuries...but even then people are different.
     
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  31. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You're using swapping math but there was no swap, we drafted him with a 3rd round pick, so there is one, we gave up a 6th last year, thats 2, a 3rd this year, thats 3 and a 4th this year, that's 4, there was no swapping, we traded 3 picks to get 1 pick, that's a total of 4 picks.

    Also, do those 3rd and 4th round picks feel like 4th and 5th round picks this year? No, they seem to be worth more this year than last year because this is a better draft, the only reason, and time, that they are viewed as 4th and 5th round picks is during last years draft in the midst of desperation.

    It reminds me of the old adage/joke, Father and son bulls come to the top of a hill and down in the valley there is a bunch of cows, the young bull says "hey dad, lets RUN down there and mate with one of those cows!" and the father said, "no son, lets WALK down there and mate with them all".

    A 3rd is always worth a 3rd, only a persons desperation can convince them otherwise.
     
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  32. wpgfishfan

    wpgfishfan Member

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    I'm hoping our luck changes Keller-Cameron-Thomas

    Our defense was so bad last year I would have put all our resources into trying to fix it
     
  33. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't even our fourth reciever at the end of the year. At this point he is not worth all the draft picks we gave up to pick him. He at least has to turn into a quality #2 receiver to warrant his draft value.

    And your original point was that you thought they could pick up three starters in the fifth round this year, which is ridiculous.

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  34. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    /thread
     
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  35. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Great Job Travis!....Well written, full of common sense and very informative. Laid out a likely plan for each of these "bum" signings. And a complete waste of time I am sure. You were better off spitting into the wind
     
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  36. pdaj

    pdaj Well-Known Member

    This is a lesson most fans learn over time, and we Miami fans were reminded of it just last season. Football's a tough a game, and injuries will happen. Thus, teams that are front-loaded in terms of talent will typically struggle to persevere (i.e. win) through the course of the season when players go down, either temporarily or for the remainder of the season. Many games are won every year due to reserves, backups, whatever stepping in and performing.

    The Dolphins middle of the roster last year was dog sh-t. This FA has helped, but continued strong drafting is even more important. I like this Grier-lead team, which of course, includes Gase and the creative Tannenbaum. I think they strike a nice balance.

    Seems as though Miami's looking to roll over some money into next year. This should help address the next wave of Miami FA, as were mentioned.

    Not to digress, but I due wonder if Ajayi ends up seeing a second contract in Miami; and, if so, what it looks like. The market has been kind to TOP running backs, but his medical history could be a determining factor.
     
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  37. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    If people want to make a case against Julius Thomas - there is a perfectly good one to make without resorting to faulty causation. His only 2 decent years in the league were a result of a guy named Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. I can't believe in this day and age there are NFL GMs that can't identify clear cut cases of QB based productions vs. individual player production.
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Some might say that his best years were the result of Gase.
     
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  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Last year none. But the from the year before I'd say Ajayi and Lippett turned out just fine. I'll take another 2 like that.

    Having a history of concussions s much different then any other injury. We know all these guys break bones, sprains and tears at various points in their careers. That's why the average career span is less then 4 years. Julius Thomas has had some injuries. No doubt about it. He also had 2 stud years under Gase. Manning may have been the QB but this wasn't prime Peyton Manning....that was diminished arm strength Peyton Manning who struggled to zip the ball in their the way he used to and instead was more reliant on his ability to use his eyes and pump fakes to shift defenders away from spots he wanted to throw to.

    Steen actually did have a couple of really nice games at C to start the year. You're just dead wrong about that. Go back and watch.

    Cameron never had success in the same type of scheme with an innovative offensive coach. Cameron was the old "overrated player on a bad team". Julius Thomas was a good player on a good team in Denver made better by having competent players around him like he will have here. In Jacksonville he was an average player on a subpar team made worse by mediocre players around him, which will have less of here. Fasano, Gray, Duarte....it doesn't mean we are done there. Gase's offenses feature 2 TE at times, it wouldn't surprise me if we took a flier on Jake Butt or Adam Shaheen in the middle of the draft or maybe a guy like George Kittie later on. You can still address the position and trade or cut one of the others....or keep Duarte on the PS.
     
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  40. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Very upset at the offseason moves we didn't fill any big holes. Granted we did sign our own player which is a good thing, but we missed out on some great offensive lineman, cornerbacks and lineman. We filled up on so maybe players and they seem content. This team is in for a rude awakening 2017 season. They will regress and miss playoffs again.
     

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