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Stephen Ross goes lone wolf against the NFL / Goodell

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    impressive. he walked walk for our stadium then talked talk here. good on the elf.

    goodell will make up an excuse to fine us soon.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...tephen-ross-explains-no-vote-to-raiders-move/

    “My position today was that we as owners and as a League owe it to fans to do everything we can to stay in the communities that have supported us until all options have been exhausted"

    impressive, he put himself on an island.
     
  2. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Good for him. Love this guy
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I actually like the move, but only for one reason.. the name: Las Vegas Raiders!

    fits so perfectly haha
     
  4. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Revis island


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Considering he voted for the Rams to move to LA, this statement is inconsistent and contradictory.
     
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  6. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Prove it


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  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Um ok?

    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/12/los-angeles-rams-nfl-st-louis-relocation
     
  8. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    As someone who recently moved to St. Louis, I appreciate his stance on the matter but wonder where that opinion was last year. St. Louis was definitely not the worst fan base in the sport and they were working hard on plans to fix the dome.

    I was very sad the Dolphins played the Rams on the road this season and it wasn't here.
     
  9. plc001

    plc001 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    “My position today was that we as owners and as a League owe it to fans to do everything we can to stay in the communities that have supported us until all options have been exhausted"

    I don't know the politics of these things... but maybe he felt the rams had "exhausted all other options". Now whether that's true or not I don't know, just pointing out the fact that there are conditions allowing him to vote either way without contradicting himself.
     
  10. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    You cant be serious with what you just said unless you havent followed the Kroenke/St. Louis situation. The fans and city didnt get a single chance in hell, Kroenke was going to move the team to LA regardless if the city handed him a similar facility/stadium LA is getting
     
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  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Also, prior to the Rams moving to St. Louis they had been in LA for nearly 40 years. Maybe Ross felt as if LA was their real "home"?
     
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  12. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I would like to see a rule put in place that any team can move but the name has to stay in the original city. Let the raiders move but force them to find a new name
     
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  13. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Id be all for that. You dont see the ravens owning the Browns or Colts history, even tho they do have Unitas' number retired..
     
  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I agree! Although the Rams originated in Cleveland, professional football (and many other industries for that matter) was in its infancy, so their move to LA in 1946 doesn't bother me...but their move to St Louis did, as did...

    The Baltimore Colts
    The St Louis Cardinals
    The Oakland Raiders
    The Houston Oilers
    The Cleveland Browns

    With the Raiders I look at it like this. You originated in Oakland, CA. You didn't like it so you moved to LA, thinking you struck the mother lode, only to realize the grass wasnt greener on the other side so then you begged to go back to Oakland. Now you want to move to Vegas?

    Are cities going to start pandering to pro sports teams, trying to lure them to relocate like free agency has done to sports?
     
  15. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    As a resident of Las Vegas, I am super excited! Went from zero pro sports teams ever to 2 out of the 4 just like that!
     
  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Obviously a great deal depends on what you grew up with. Personally when I think of the Rams, I think of L.A. not St. Louis. Raiders are a bit different though. I think of Oakland first, but I also see Las Vegas as a good fit for them. I didn't have any strong feelings either way on that move.
     
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  17. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I'm looking forward to the Vegas Raiders, would be fun to bring the wife and see a dolphins game there every few years.
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I too had a hard time calling them the St. Louis Rams for a long time.
     
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  19. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    Stephen Ross is the reason I yesterday became a Miami Dolphins fan. Go Dolphins !
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    (Former) Raiders fan?

    *Edit: Just read your intro...
     
  21. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Welcome brah! But I gotta warn you, it's hard to be a Fins Fan, they'll flippin make you cry. The community here at the phins.com have developed some very good therapy to help. Don't be ashamed, come here for help.
     
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  22. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    No crying here, especially for 2017 when the Dolphins go 19-0 and eclipse their 1972 NFL record for undefeated season :)
     
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  23. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 2022 Mother's Day and May Flowers!

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    Vegas did need to have a team of any kind of professional sports. Will help economic wise!
     
  24. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    I was the biggest Ross critic, ever since Wayne H. sold the team... just like all the other real fans...Way before trolls like LBsFartest had to graduate to their next scapegoat, & zero in on the only mainstay they could target... ( idiots )

    Was it coincidence that we chose Jake Long and Chad Henne ? No way Jose. Chased Jim Harbaugh? (only to drive him away to a team that would eventually hate him for winning) C'mon guys....There's one lesson learned... Remember the (plan A: Fisher) that ultimately ended in (plan F: Philbin) debacle? Then the embarrasing GM search that found us settling for plan Z: Dennis Hickey, (who did a very nice job IMO.)

    Of course the next year it was blown up..by hiring failed Jets Free Agent mega spender Mike Tannenbaum to slowly run Hickey out...I'd had enough.....
     
  25. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    Nobody really knows if Las Vegas will be able to support an NFL team. It's a different type business plan-model, dependent on tourists to buy tickets. NFL team's have traditionally been supported by a loyal group of season ticket holders, which I do not believe Vegas has, either from a resident population or income perspective.
    My personal opinion is that the NFL owners group voted "yes" because they are old men with lots of money who want the opportunity to check out the pretty young women which Las Vegas is known for.
     
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  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The 29 owners that allowed relocation got $1.3B in relocation fees. $53M per team.


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  27. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    I believe the Rams fee was $550 million. The Chargers, I think, are due to pay $600 or $650 million (over a 10 year period).
    I don't know what the Raiders will be required to pay.
    Anyway, the Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is routinely photographed with women of age to be his grandaughter. And Pats owner Robert Kraft has a girlfriend way younger than his own kids. I just think the owners group met yesterday and decided that a "business trip" to Las Vegas each year is not a bad idea.
    Kudos to Dolphins owner Steve Ross who thought with his brain instead of his pants, and voted no.
     
  28. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not so sure that's it. I don't think these guys are making business decisions that ultimately affect their bottom lines with shared revenues and such based on a trip that they can use to oogle young women. They've got enough money that they could go there anytime they please. To me its about the visibility that Vegas generates. Nascar has had success there. The NHL has with it's awards show, and soon to be it's franchise (they hope). The NFL wants a piece of that action. A piece of being in one of the most visited cities in the country/world. The exposure a team in Vegas gives the league is huge. The revenue opportunities as well. It's a chance to bring the game to so many more people, and relatively cheap.

    It sucks that Oakland lost it's team. I feel terrible for the fans, because they're diehards. It will be interesting to see the fan support in Vegas. I could be wrong, but I feel like most of those tickets are going to be snatched up by the hotels. Comped. Offered in travel packages etc. I dont see the same hardcore rabid Raiders fans existing there. Sure, there will be some I bet, but I feel like the majority of that stadium on Sundays is going to be a mix of people being visiting team fans, corporate people, high rollers, or some on trip packages there for an experience. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong on that. I don't see the team failing though. Theres too many opportunities and exposure there.

    Heck, for what it would cost me to fly down to Miami, get a hotel, get to a game I could fly out to Vegas and catch Miami play the Raiders for probably half the price with flight and hotel packages. I know I'm not alone in thinking that. Yes, I'm out of the US, and up here you can get relatively cheap flights to Vegas, and room deals are everywhere, but even within the US that's the case as well.

    There's plenty of reasons why they wanted to move a team to Vegas outside of rich old men wanted to have a better reason now to go and check out women. They can do that anywhere, anytime. As you said, Jerry Jones is proof of that. :lol:
     
  29. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    In general terms, I think the NFL owners are making a mistake by constructing "private suite focused" new stadiums.Typically, the wealthy individuals and corporations who rent these suites are not knowledgeable and, or, passionate football fans. Consequently, once the novelty of a new stadium has worn off, and, or, the team is losing its games, the suites are empty.
    The NFL's foundation was built on individuals and families buying season tickets, attending all the games regardless of the team's w/l record, creating good game day atmosphere for the home team etc.... But most all that is lost with the new trend towards suite-heavy and, or tiered pricing new stadiums.
    If the biggest money (for team owners) is in the revenue sharing from NFL t.v. broadcast contracts, I think the teams would be better served by creating or maintaining reasonably priced venues where true fans will be attending the games and making noise, which is what looks good on tv and helps the players play their best.
    . The Oakland Coliseum served the Raiders and their fans very well.Time will tell whether the new dome in Las Vegas is a popular NFL venue.
     
  30. Hellion

    Hellion Crash Club Member

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    Here and there
    Food for thought, but maybe part of the reason he voted against the Raiders move to Las Vegas is that now the Raiders become another team with a no state tax law that Miami has to compete with for FA's.
     
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  31. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with that in theory. Absolutely. That's typical right now of every major sport though. Suites bring in the big bucks though. So do premium seating options, similar to what Miami has in the renovated stadium down on the lower levels with those big padded seats etc. That's where the money is at, you need the high stadium revenues, so I doubt the NFL changes it's ways in that regard. All sports are that way though now. Baseball stadiums all have their big ring of suites, and the first few rows of regular seats are typically premium options, padded, bigger, in seat service etc. Hockey... same way. Heck, in Detroit they're finally leaving Joe Louis Arena. Now, that move is well over due, no doubt about that, but that arena is built with a lower bowl. Upper bowl, basically only separated from the lower by 3-4 steps of elevation that serves no purpose other than sight lines/angles for the seating area, then above that upper bowl there's some suites. Mind you, it's an older facility and like you said the focus wasn't on suites at the time. The new arena however has a lower bowl, then I believe what appears to be a "level" of "club seating" like a second level, followed by one or two levels of suites, with another general seating level above that. Assuming that that upper level of seating will be the "affordable" seats for most people, and it's a ways from the action being so high up like most modern hockey arena's now. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Hockey games in Toronto are the same way. The lower levels are filled with corporate season ticket holders, and the wealthy uninterested who have them for themselves or give aways. Suites stuffed with suits, upper levels filled with a mix of fans and leftover corporate. It's just how it is now unfortunately.

    Want to know why suites are important? Revenue. Big bucks. My company has a suite at the local arena here in town (max capacity approx. 6500) for a junior hockey team in the OHL. Regular tickets for games are about $20 range. Seats in the "platinum section" are about $28. You get in seat service there. A suite though? That will run you an average of about $700 per game, for 14 tickets or about $50 per person. Food and drinks in the suite at the local 6500 seat arena? A bottle of booze (26 ounce) will run you about $85-120 depending on your selection. Six beers... about $40. Individual bottles... $9. Bottle of wine... $38-$44. Individual drinks are about $5 a piece. Food though? Comes in platters to serve the 14 people. Different packages are available based on the foods you want. They start at about $25 per person, $350 total for things such as popcorn, sliders, fries, wings, and brownies for dessert. Again, keep in mind, this is the local 6500 seat arena, and pricing for Ontario Hockey League/Canadian Hockey League JUNIOR hockey games. The two rows of seating as part of the suite is separated from the last row in the general seating sections by a railing at the edge of your suite, and about a couple feet higher. You're at the top of the rink. Mind you where the suites are is just about 30-35 rows from the ice still. The team isn't fantastic this year, but the suites are always packed. That's the kind of money you can charge in a suit for a junior hockey team, so just think about the revenues stadium and team owners can drive when you're talking NFL and top tier entertainment options. It easily costs us close to $1500-2000 to host a suite full of clients at one of these games.

    Suites and corporate/premium seating options aren't going away any time soon, and to me, it's a key reason why you're seeing the Raiders moving to Vegas. What corporation in the US wouldn't want a suite at that stadium regardless of the teams playing? You can have it as an option to send corporate clients on an out of town "adventure" to sin city, on the corporate time to have a great time in Vegas, and catch an NFL game. I can almost guarantee you those suites will never be empty, and the owners if I'm not mistaken also share stadium revenues which is why they're always pressuring each other, and their cities for new stadiums. So, they're all drooling over this opportunity.

    Sorry for rambling, but just thought I'd share some of that.
     
  32. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I think this move may backfire on them and that the Raiders may become the only NFL team that doesn't have a home field advantage.

    The population of Vegas isn't bad in and of itself, but it's in the middle of the desert, so it has no surrounding communities like every other city to draw on, however, it is one of the most visited cities in the world.

    As we can already see in this thread, there will be a ton of fans of other teams planning their trip to Vegas to coincide with their own teams games in Vegas, and I agree with the poster(s) who are saying many seats/boxes will be bought by hotels and such.

    Vegas is also one of the biggest business convention sites in the world, so they will buy a bunch of seating as well.

    This all adds up to the Raiders games looking like mini SBs, as in neutral, with a large bulk of people who are there just for the spectacle and just as many fans of the other team, which may very well end up as a detraction for potential FAs, and fans alike, because who wants to play/root in a neutral environment, unless of course it's in the actual SB.
     
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  33. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ultimately, that's the biggest concern I'd have if I was Mark Davis. Not that he's going to care much once the revenue starts rolling in though. The thing is too though, the Raiders do have fans everywhere. They're much like Pittsburgh and Dallas in that sense. Maybe not as strong, but they do have an extensive fan base all over, even outside the US, and North America too. They had great support at that Mexico City game too, and I think we played them over in the UK once too if I`m not mistake.

    I think they will still have their fare share of original Raiders fans at games, along with whomever in Vegas picks them up as their team to support. We've heard all the former Raider greats praising the move and the fan base and trying to say that this shouldn't be an issue. However, I just fail to see how that's possible just given the nature of Vegas and what goes on there. Maybe that's just how we think of it as just occasional visitors to Vegas, maybe it will be different. For the Raiders sake, hopefully that's true.
     
  34. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    I always sympathise with any city or state losing their team. The fans that have supported that team through thick and thin are the ones that get hurt and it doesn't appear the NFL (or any other professional sports league) really gives a rats *** about them. The leagues are concerned with making money, and if another market offers them the chance to make more money they'll pursue it. Like the NFL have by getting two teams in LA and now a team in Vegas.

    In the future, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one of the other smaller market teams end up being the next to move to a more lucrative area for the league to make money from. Cities like Buffalo and Cincinnati could have issues retaining their teams if they don't cough up enough public money, or don't help put plans in place to build stadiums that meet what the NFL currently look for. If other markets emerge with plans to build other huge state of the art stadiums, with public money attached, it could be difficult and we could see the landscape of the league look very different in the coming years. I hope we don't lose any teams with strong traditions like the Buffalo Bills, but if the league continues to pursue the stadium policy that it is, and owners are willing to abandon their markets for other markets that offer them a better deal and opportunity to make more money, then some of those smaller markets could end up going if their home markets aren't careful.

    That said, Oakland have had a long time to get something done, much like San Diego. Neither City really seemed likely to cough up the level of money required to keep their team, and while it's sad to see those teams move, I can understand why their respective owners have made the decision to relocate. Spanos gets to be part of Kroenke's LA palace, and Davis gets a palace of his own in Vegas. They'll likely see their team values increase as well when they're playing in their new stadiums. What will be interesting is whether either team will be able to create strong home atmospheres in their new markets and create a new core fan base to support their team if fans from their previous markets don't attend. For me, I think the Raiders will do fine in Vegas if the Raider Nation travel well and the home fans take to them. They've got exciting young talent and if they keep improving theyll be fine.
     
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  35. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well said. :up:
     
  36. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    Well, California is broke.Regarding the Raiders relocating, too many people are blaming Oakland's mayor and, or local politicians.
    Mark Davis, like his father Al, never put effort into finding investors to finance a new stadium project.For decades all the Davis family did was complain about stadium conditions and demand someone else do the work (towards achieving a new stadium).
    Las Vegas and the State of Nevada stepped up and did the work, so that is where the Raiders will play.
    I think Dolphins owner Steve Ross knew the Raiders never made any honest stadium effort in Oakland, and that is why he voted against the relocation. Mr. Ross appears to be the only League owner who was willing to stand up for what's right. Good for him !
     
  37. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    From a financial perspective, Mark Davis may have bitten off more than he can chew. Mark, like his late father Al Davis, has only Raiders team equity ownership as a significant financial asset. At the low operating expense environments of the Oakland or LA Coliseum's, the Davis's could make payroll. Though on a couple of different occasions Al Davis did sell off percentages of the team (to raise quick cash to help make annual payroll payments).
    Looking forward the next few years, for several different potential reasons, Mark Davis could become seriously strapped for cash and end up losing his controlling ownership position of the Raiders. It would not surprise me if 3 or 4 years from now, when the new Las Vegas Stadium is ready for games, someone other than Mark Davis is controlling owner of the Raiders.
     
  38. SF_Dolphins_Fan

    SF_Dolphins_Fan Member

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    I think what you have written as a speculation is actually a certainty.
    Now let me ask you this ....... Miami is (in many ways) a "tourist city".Do those of you who attend Dolphins games notice a large number of tourists and, or opposing team's fans attending the games ?
    For decades, when they played in the tourist city of San Francisco, I was a 49ers season ticket holder and never noticed many out of town visitors at the stadium. More recently, as a Raiders season ticket holder, at the Oakland Coliseum, I saw no tourists.
    Honestly, the idea that tourists in Las Vegas are going to flock to a football stadium I think is a stretch. Maybe for the first year or two, maybe.
    Traditionally, NFL teams need locally based season ticket holders who will consistently attend games, regardless of the team's w/l record.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes.

    It's not so much tourism as people relocate here all the time. Lots of cold weather transplants (which happens to be a majority of our East rivals). Plus, we have more than most cities do, competing for the entertainment dollar.
     
  40. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Really good points, something I had not even considered when thinking about the move. I actually wonder if the Raider's even thought of this.
     
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