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TE Temptation

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    We all know Miami needs trench help. However, what are the thoughts if Howard or Njoku were available at 22? Personally, I don't think Gase passes on a chance to have a record setting offense and maybe worry about defense next year. Thoughts?


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  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    No. We already traded for thomas and signed fasano, TE is not a need. We badly need defensive help. If we go offense in first round it should be Forrest Lamp at guard. Although I would rather go defense first and pick up a guard like moton or dorian johnson in the third.

    And if we do go tight end it should be im the third or fourth round. Jeremy Sprinkle is the TE I like and should be available around the third.

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  3. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    No disrespect, but I believe that Travis already did this post a few weeks ago.
     
  4. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    Te is the least of our worries even if we didnt get Thomas.
     
  5. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    No, I don't pull the trigger. People are going to be surprised by the upgrade we already have at TE with Fasano and Thomas, especially the former. With our 3 WRs, we are fine.
     
  6. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    BPA
     
  7. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    I would be happy with Lamp in the first.
     
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  8. Hellion

    Hellion Crash Club Member

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    Here and there
    If one of them TE's are available I would imagine someone wants them bad enough to trade up ahead of another team. So it would be a good trade down opertunity.
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's a bigger need than people want to think. Julius Thomas isn't going to stay healthy for more than 50% of your snaps. Are you going to give Anthony Fasano what is basically a starting workload? Or MarQueis Gray?

    They've met with OJ Howard, so presumably that's an option but so far there hasn't been reports about Njoku as far as I know.
     
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  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Grier has stated that he goes primarily by BPA in the early rounds. Those touting "need" in the first are out of touch with the way this team approaches the draft. I would say that if they rate Howard or Njoku as potentially game changing players then they are obvious possibilities.
     
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  11. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    There are good TEs to be had in the mid rounds. I think it is a near certainty that we take a DL or DB round 1.
     
  12. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    I like our TEs, but durability is an issue. Im thinking long term, take one


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  13. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    I think with this draft looking to be so heavy in defensive talent, this is the year to address many issues on that side of the ball. IMO, the only position on the offensive side of the ball worth using a 1st to 3rd pick on is OL.
     
  14. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    If they're the best player available then of course we should draft them. Obviously we have other needs but teams can get in trouble when they reach for players in a position of need rather than take the best player available.

    Plus, in our situation we haven't necessarily solved our tight end issue...

    First, Julius Thomas has been injury prone in his time in the league, which is part of the reason Denver didn't break the bank to re-sign, and part of the reason he didn't make a greater impact in Jacksonville because he didn't really stay healthy for long enough periods to impact their passing game. Don't get me wrong he's quality when he's healthy, but staying healthy has always been an issue for him.

    Second, Anthony Fasano is no more than a solid veteran tight end that is nearer the end of his career than the beginning. He'll be 33 later this month and while he should be a solid option for Tannehill, and I'd have no issue with a JT and Fasano 1-2 tight end combination, the simple fact is Fasano is not a long term option he's a short term one.

    Third, after our injury prone starter and ageing veteran backup, the depth chart is not exactly stellar. None of them offer the potential or mismatch nightmare that Njoku or Howard could offer this team. So while we might have other needs, if they're considered the BPA, then we should grab one of them because they can be the long term answer at the tight end position. And with JT and Fasano around, we don't have to throw them in at the deep end unless they are truly ready, and if they are, then it's scary to think about how good our offense can be with someone like that and our other options.

    That said, I don't think we will end up drafting a tight end in the first round. If we go offense I suspect it will be one of the O-Line prospects since they'd be able to slot in at guard and potentially replace Ju'wuan James next season in the event we don't re-sign him, and if we do re-sign him, then they can still have a big impact on our O-Line. But that's the way I lean if we go offense.
     
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  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Drafting BPA is way overblown. You dont draft a Dan Marino if you already have Joe Montana for example or vice-versa. We have multiple positions of need an in my opinion we should draft BPA within those positions which right now are guard, free safety, DT, DE and LB. If you are going to take a TE for depth then take him later in the draft not in the first two rounds.

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  16. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

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    Actually there is one time you might draft a Dan Marino if you already have Joe Montana, and that is if the latter is approaching the end of their career or time with the team, like the Packers did by drafting Rodgers to be Favre's successor, or the Chargers did when they drafted Rivers to be Brees' successor.

    Of course I agree with the point that if say Trubisky is the best player available then we are unlikely to draft him because we have Tannehill. But that is working on the basis that Gase and co believe Tannehill is superior than any quarterback in this draft (or future draft) and is the undisputed guy going forwards. If there is any lingering doubt (e.g. Chargers with Brees) and a can't miss prospect comes along (e.g. originally Eli but that became Rivers), then I wouldn't bet against this team drafting a quarterback if they felt that quarterback offered significantly more upside than the guy we've currently got (by this I mean the replacement can be elite rather than just a good quarterback like Tannehill).

    In regards to tight end, Howard or Njoku would most likely move to the second spot on the depth chart. It is likely we would see a fair amount of two tight end sets with them and Julius Thomas taking to the field. That would give Tannehill two big time weapons, throw in his receivers and that could be quite a handful for opposition defenders to handle. Again I take the point we could draft someone later if we want to develop a prospect, but if we want someone that can make a more immediate impact (e.g. like Hunter Henry did) and get Tannehill another weapon so he's surrounded by play makers, then drafting one of the top two tight end prospects is a distinct possibility.

    For me, the best player available approach is typically the best way to go. Of course you need to use some common sense if like you say the BPA is a quarterback and that player doesn't project to be significantly better than what you've got, or in the event that the best player available in every round is a wide receiver then you aren't going to draft seven receivers, but for the most part the best player available approach works well. That's not to say a team can't draft need if the BPA and the need are a similar calibre of prospect with a similar grade, but the last thing a team should do in most cases is reach for a player (e.g. Drafting a day two DE or CB on day one). That's my point. At this time we need to keep adding the best talent and if they fill a need, great; but if they don't, so be it, we can still make use of more talent and depth.
     
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    not if it means you lose someone you really want.
     
  18. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    That is one reason Lamp is a solid pick. If they do replace James, Lamp could swing out to RT.
     
  19. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think I have a good grasp on this situation. I have long believed that actions speak louder than words. Take a look at Julius Thomas's contract. This year, Miami is on the hook for $5.6 million which is reasonable salary for a TE. Next year, Thomas is slated to make $6.6 million which again is not unreasonable. By comparison, Dion Sims is making nearly identical cap numbers in those years. But here is the rub, Thomas has $0 guaranteed next year. Now if you look at the price to acquire Thomas, it was a 7th round pick. Generally, speaking teams do not even expect 7th round picks to make the team, so we can conclude that there is low-moderate risk in acquiring Thomas. By simply reading the tea leaves, we can logically conclude that the Dolphins are cautiously optimistic that Thomas will work out. But with that optimism, there is a dose of reality based on the compensation the Phins are paying him. In all likelihood, the Dolphins will be looking at TE.

    Now as far the question of using a 1st round pick on Njoku or Howard, it is something worth considering.

    Let's look at Howard first. I have not finished my scouting yet, but I would not be at all surprised if Howard is in my top 10 overall. He really is a complete package, and I certainly would call him an elite talent. I fully expect Howard to be a pro-bowler in the near future. Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves, "Would you take a player that you were confident will be a pro-bowler ahead a position of need that you have graded lower (unless of course you have someone evaluated higher than Howard still available)? In my mind, having a pro bowl player at any position really is a major advantage for teams to have. I do think that having Thomas and Howard on the field together could be a great way to disguise formation and get teams in a position where they struggle to substitute. We could line up in an single back formation and pound the ball or we could spread our offense 5 wide without subbing. In my mind, I would absolutely consider drafting Howard (depending on who else is still on the board). If you agree with my assessment of Howard, I really think that you should be open to the possibility of drafting him.

    On the other hand, Njoku is a different story. I think Njoku is a good prospect but not a great prospect. Njoku is a fantastic receiving TE, but his blocking skills are suspect. I don't see him as a complete TE. What makes things worse is that he has the same flaw as Thomas. Do we really want to go into the offseason with Fasano as the only TE that can block? In my mind, I think we could find someone else at a different position that would be graded higher anyway.

    Njoku - No
    Howard - I would certainly consider it.
     
  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I think Howard is a potential hall of famer and someone I had penciled in as a player the Dolphins should target. Now that we addressed TE in the offseason it would seem he wouldnt be on our radar but I would have to still consider it. Howard could turn our offense into the best in the NFL. Imagine an empty backfield set of Howard, Thomas, Landry, Stills and Parker. Who do you focus on? You will have mismatches every time you run the formation. 3rd and 1? Imagine Fasano on one side and Howard on the other. You basically have seven lineman now and can consider running outside or off tackle.

    In terms of BPA I think a cornerback or Howard will be the two choices. linebacker and offensive line wont be as good at their position as Hioward is at his. I would definitely consider it but if we go cornerback i'M ok with that too
     
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  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I just did a Fanspeak draft, using the CBS board, and came away with, what I think, is an awesome draft.

    22: R1P22
    TE O.J. HOWARD
    ALABAMA

    54: R2P22
    S DESMOND KING
    IOWA

    97: R3P33
    G DANNY ISIDORA
    MIAMI (FLA.)

    166: R5P22
    EDGE DEATRICH WISE JR.
    ARKANSAS

    178: R5P34
    CB MARQUEZ WHITE
    FLORIDA STATE

    184: R5P40
    EDGE EJUAN PRICE
    PITTSBURGH

    223: R7P5
    LB BLAIR BROWN
    OHIO
     
  22. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    TE is a solid pick. Knowing that Thomas is injury pronr and Fasano is old. I don't trust injury-prone players, including Pouncey


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  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Used the same tool and I am ecstatic with our first three picks.

    R1:Solomon Thomas EDGE/DT Stanford
    R2: Jordan Willis EDGE Kansas State
    R3: Pat Elflein C/G Ohio State

    [​IMG]
     
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Which draft board did you use?
     
  25. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Fanspeak


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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I think the CBS and Walter Football are probably the two best and most realistic. I prefer CBS.
     
  27. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yeah if Solomon Thomas is available at 22, murder people to hand in that card. Or maybe he is available because he murdered someone ... dude is a legit top 5 pick.

    As for TE, I think tirty8 nailed it - Njoku's blocking may hold him back a bit. I think blocking can be taught to a willing pupil, but it still gives us with 2 main receiving TEs. I am not sure they both would see the field much, not a great resource allocation. Howard would be a good fit though.
     
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  28. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    This defense is shallow and needs to be addressed with players who can contribute right away.
    No interest in an early tight end ...or early any skilled position on offense.
     
  29. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Defense is deep this year. If Howard is there...you take him.

    However, I'd be hard pressed to pass up on Peppers if he's there at 22.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  30. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    those two TE's aren't wanted because of their blocking.
     
  31. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    I agree with the poster. Best Defense is a good offense. If Njoku is there I say we take him. Go D the rest of the rounds. Let's go lights out on offense this year. I know it's not the safe move but it sure is the fun to watch one.

    Again, I think it's ALL about who's there at #22. Take the best player. It's just nice knowing we'll be going into the draft and we won't take someone us non draft nerds have never heard of like we have multiple times in the past. It'll be Howard, Peppers, Njoku, Charlton, Humphrey, Barnett or Harris. It's easy, just take the perennial pro bowler that's sitting there no problem lol.
     
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  32. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    I just did the mock. Took OJ Howard, Carl Lawson and Jourdan Lewis
     
  33. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Let's keep with the logic of the situation... Do you draft Gronkowski if you have Thomas and Fasano? Of course you do, unless you are ******ed.
     
  34. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I agree...QB is the only position you should deviate from BPA. I remember the Bucks had Cadillac Williams and passed on Adrian Peterson because they didn't "need" a RB.

    There are other possible exceptions, but very few. BPA is extremely sound.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that Howard is the best TE prospect since Gronk. His floor is as a good/very good starting TE and his ceiling is as a perennial pro bowl player. So he's a pretty safe pick. Any team that wants to be smash mouth can sit in two TE all day. He's not perfect as a blocker, but he's pretty good. And if you try to match up with a LB on defense there's probably no LB in the league that Howard couldn't beat consistently. I don't expect he'll make it to #22 so it's moot. But I see him as a one of those potentially elite talents. It would be difficult to pass him by should the opportunity arise. Obviously it would depend on what else was on the board. Personally I'd probably take Peppers and Lamp before him. Maybe Reddick but it would be close.
     
  36. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We could also trade down a little bit and pick Evan Engram. Guy ran a 4.42 at 237 lbs., was super productive in college and is (to use a cliché) a "mismatch nightmare". He's also a willing, but still learning, blocker. That would probably net us a 4th. The FO can either hold onto that pick or package it with one of our 5th rounders to move up to the third round for two third-round picks.

    So our first pick would be Evan Engram at the bottom of the first or early 2nd, then the best LB/DE at our second pick, and the best LB/DE at our third pick (first in the third round). With the second third-round pick we can go with a CB or G. We also need a DT, so they can measure that against our LB and DE needs in the first couple rounds. I don't think the FO is prioritizing safety this year, but I could be wrong. If no one convincing falls to the Dolphins at 22 (including Forrest Lamp) then I could see something like this playing out.
     
  37. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let me say that I think the Phins will draft a safety, but i don't know when, and I think they have other positions they should fill first (DE, LB, G specifically). I think if one of these safeties is an effective nickel then that slots them a little higher on Miami's board.
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I see "trade down" as one of those easier said than done things. Almost every year I would prefer to trade down. If the opportunity arises great, but I never go in saying that's what we could do, b/c more often than not we can't.

    As for Engram, I don't have him anywhere in the same class. I haven't scouted him fully so maybe my opinion could change but I would only be tempted by a TE if I saw an elite talent. I don't see our need as TE as great. It's all about BPA. And it's pretty obvious that our team philosophy is to go BPA with the early picks. So I see posters arguing about "need" at 22 and I see it as an exercise in futility. That's simply not what we're likely to do.
     
  39. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I did the cbs and Walter football below. Does look more realistic than the fanspeak board.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What about Adam Shaheen? If he is available in the 2nd round, I think he would be very hard to pass on.
     

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