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Here it is: The Official 2017 NFL Draft Post

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's great and all, but if he still needs a lot of work you don't draft him in the first round. Developmental guys with high upside should not be first round picks. You want your first rounders to be well developed players who can start immediately and not be a huge liability in any area as harris obviously is.

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  2. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Anybody in the 1st round outside of maybe 10 guys are going to have weaknesses or liabilities. Harris will have to develop parts of his game, but not the part that he was drafted for. He is a pass rusher, and he is damn good at it.
     
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  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    On the bright side there are some really good, even some 1st round, talent to still be had in the 2nd round. I'm not sure who will be there at 22, but I'm assuming a few (at least) of these guys will be there. My hope is Obi, D. King, Awuzie, Tank, Baker, or Zach will fall to us.


    Adam Shaheen
    Forrest Lamp
    Cam Robinson
    Montravius Adams
    Zach Cunningham
    Kevin King
    Chidobe Awuzie
    Desmond King
    Obi Melifonwu
    Jeremy Sprinkle
    Jake Butt
    Ben Braden
    Dan Feeney
    Pat Elflein
    Larry Ogunjobi
    Malik McDowell
    Tanoh Kpassagnon
    Alex Anzalone
    Cordrea Tankersley
    Budda Baker
    Marcus Maye
     
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  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    And he will be a day 1 starter...
     
  5. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    Sort of.

    I mean I get the argument here. We drafted a kid with an extremely specific skill set that will only be on the field in specific situations. He isn't an every down guy. He is going to get burnt a few times because he isn't great as a run stopper. However, he is going to have a huge impact on games this year. Teaming him with Wake and Suh is going to be a nightmare and should help our defense get off the field in 3rd down situations.
     
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Wake's not an every down guy nor is he great against the run either. They will rotate 4 DE's and Harris will be one of those 4. He will be on the field a lot more than any non-OL player picked in the 1st round by the Dolphins in a long time...
     
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Oh sure, like getting off the field on third downs was our problem on defense last year. We actually had one of the best third down defenses in the legue last year, our biggest problem was first and second down when we can't stop the freaking run, and charles does absolutely nothing to help with the run defense.

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  8. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He's better against the run than you seem to think.
     
  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    No he is not. If there is one thing pretty much every scouting report on him agrees on is that he is bad against the run.

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  10. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Watch some tape on him. Does he need work? Yes. Is he "bad"...not even close.
     
  11. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Doubt it

    But plan a sub edge rusher paired with wake yep

    We needed something with more edge rush tools than andre branch

    Tim williams in this scheme even would be a life long situational rusher...harris at least has meat on the bone in the run game to eventually maybe play every down in our scheme
     
  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I have watched plenty tape on him. He is very bad against the run, gets pushed around alot, doesn't set the edge very well, is terrible at getting off blocks, has pedestrian pursuit speed and is a sucker for misdirection.

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  13. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You're pretty much parroting a few of the scouting reports I've read. Again, he needs work, but he's far from as bad as you seem to think he is...
     
  14. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but you are leaving out that our 3rd down percentage was ballooned because teams didnt even have to get to 3rd down vs our d...we stunk up the joint on first and second ha ha

    No doubt this pick doesnt really help us remedy that...grier says scheme adjustments are the offset but i struggle to see where that can come from personnel wise or schematically
     
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  15. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Im thinking awuzie may be the primary target at 54
     
  16. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Grier makes it sound like this kid harris has an alpha personality and a very strong work ethic
    So some of that ehh effort when the plays away from him etc. which usually cleans itself up in the pros may have been about saving himself for the nfl game...x howard did the same thing on tape at baylor and no one questions his effort since we drafted him
    If we were a 34 team i would have drafted tj watt at 22 assuming the medical on the knees checked out
     
  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Yes oyu guys are absolutely right that last year our defense was getting rolled over on the run....teams were doing what I wanted us to do....RUN THE DAMNED BALL....but let's also be honest as well. With the NFL becoming more and more like the old AFL.....pass, pass, pass...we've GOT to be able to get pressure on the QB. Brady just ate us alive last year....and the year before...and the year before that.

    I dont think Harris is a bad pick at all, whether he plays DE or possibly OLB. I worry more about the DC than I do who's on the roster. I'm just so glad Vance Joseph is gone. He was straight up garbage as a DC
     
  18. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    If that happens, I am ordering a jersey tomorrow. Kid will be a stud DB in this league for a long time. Can play NB, CB, or Safety.
     
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  19. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Well the offset for lets say two legit edge rushers is the quick passing game vs our lb level at least it was in 2016 when baltimore exposed our weakness in the nickel at lb...have they remedied that? Doubt it but getting paysinger off the field in the nickel is always a instant improvement...
    The way this thing is heading timmons and kiko are you nickel pairing at lb...they got to either take one at 54 or look to the rest of the draft options as developmental depth
    Im expecting them to go the latter route maybe with a kendell beckwith if he was to make it to round 5
     
  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I don't base my opinions just off of scouting reports. If so I wouldn't be so high on Jordan Willis who most scouts have graded as a second rounder. I watched plenty of tape on harris and basically all he has is a very good first step to get off the ball, a very good spin move, some good lateral quickness and a good motor. Everywere else he is mediocre at best.

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  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I havent seen any of his tape...i only studied edge, guard, lb, and safeties cause i think they are the primary high pick possibilities...but nickel corner is on that list with a carry coverage upgrade to bobby mccain

    Well i did watch some corn elder and some desmond king and i like them both too
     
  22. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I think lance zeirlein nailed why jordan willis is still on the board when he said he was very deliberate as a pass rusher as in he shows his rush move to a tackle early and doesnt really counter...

    That makes a lot of sense to me plus the level of tackle competition in the big 12 is a dumpster fire
     
  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    He is not deliberate, he prefers to go to the outside and has been successful with it using the rip and swim, if they can't stop him why should he try to hide what he is going to do? And when he has gotten stopped on the outside he also has a great spin move and a good bull rush. He is also very ery good at combining moves together. His stunt rush abilities are also great. The knocks on him don't really hold water. Some scouts say he is not the best athlete yet he tested better than any other defenseive end at the combine. Cam wake is the same way he beats guys over and over to the outside with speed and strength are we going to say cam wake is too deliberate?

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  24. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    dan; usually I agree with 90% of your posts but in this post I have to totally disagree go back and watch any quarter of the Tenn or LSU game and watch how draws and misdirection's ate him alive!!! the Rb had field days for huge blow out wins.

    I get that we are trying to get to the qb (brady) but if he over pursues, brady is just gonna run draws all day right at him. Like I said he needs some work so 10lbs and some help dissecting plays maybe we have something, not going to pin him a bust before he takes his first snap.
     
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  25. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Looks pretty deliberate to me

    At any rate i expect him to go pretty quickly today

    I knew taco with teams betting on upside was gonna come off in our range...miami interviewed him cant argue with them passing if he didnt nail that side of things

    I know you dont like taco but 3rd and 5th round i even heard grades there were nuts...

    If miami wanted willis they would have traded out they had opportunities to do so and passed

    Must have had a top 15 grade on harris
     
  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Run d play is bad...theres even some disinterest at times...that needs clean up...i think some of it too is hes so new to the game recognition and awareness wise hes got a long ways to go

    The run d play to me looks like derek rivers except rivers is doing it vs all 9 to 5ers even

    The safe bet here is situational rusher develop the run game play just like it would be with derek rivers or tim williams in this scheme...

    And theres nothing wrong with a situational rusher top 25 pick provided he gives you the sack production...give me 8 sacks per year or more situationally with the potential to rack up double digits and i will take it...the bust rate in the 20s at 43 de is high...it is what it is doesnt mean you just keep avoiding it...
     
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  27. phins18

    phins18 Active Member

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    I guess with Hayes in the picture we didnt need to get a complete player from day 1, but I hate hate hate grabbing a specialist with a first round pick. A first round pick should not be a complete liability in one facet of the game like this guy is against the run. We'll see how this turns out, and if he becomes Wake 2.0 then it is moot, but I dont like taking non-complete players because if his one trait of pass rushing isnt as good as people think it is, this guy cant do anything else. But im not gonna sit here and act like I know anything about this guy.
     
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  28. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    And this has bust written all over it. You try to avoid it as much as possible. There were much better and more complete players available with less liabilities and question marks than harris.

    I don't want situational pass rusher with my first round pick when our biggest concern on defense is run D.

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  29. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    You get this worked up about something you have no say in or control over? I'd hate to see what would happen of something happened that affected you directly.

    Damn dude have a Valium or something to take the edge off.
     
  30. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Well the difference between you and me is if I'm gonna use a top 25 pick on a de that cat damn well better have high level edge pass rush tools and outside shoulder win...the 2 down base des for run d are a dime a dozen and can be found and valued even outside the top 50
    As for the run d I think for better or worse you might want to wrap your head around Jordan Phillips being counted on to pick up a lions share this year...all signs point that way
     
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  31. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    There were other DEs available who were just as good rushing the passer while also being much better against the run, namely Jordan Willis and Takk McKinley.

    Depending on Jordan Phillips to stop the run sounds like a great plan since he has given us no indication of being able to do that up to this point.

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  32. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    YOU GUYS ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT!!!!!

    What we should have done is get ROBERT BOUCHER JR. he was available (shocking I know) and he woulda been the answer to 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th downs. Game over, ship!!!!!

    :)
     
  33. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Hey I'm just reading the tea leaves and with Willis I'm not disagreeing with you...tak is a 34 olb 2 point stance all day long player coming off a torn labrum in his shoulder
    You never know Miami could pluck McDowell or wormsley even as base de options and kick inside subs to help with the run d at 54...ideal 5 techs yes but possible options to help the run d and play some sub interior to give philips conpetition and a blow
    Edge wise in terms of pure pass rush I think they are done maybe a deatrick wise in round 5 add
     
  34. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    HMM.Would you have drafted terell suggs at #10 in 2003?.He only started 1 game all season but won nfl rookie of the year being a situational pass rusher.Bottom line is I don't know and you don't know until he plays.
     
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  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    He also ran 4.8 which dinosaurs like bill polian say is the auto cut off for pass rushers impact in the NFL edge wise
     
  36. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    If Mando is right miamis gonna run the hankersley card to the podium at 54...I sure hope he's wrong
    He wasn't wrong about harris
     
  37. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wouldn't have a serious gripe if we took Tankersley, what's surprising about that Armando piece is he claims we like Cooper Kupp in the third round. That would be a surprising pick. The kid can run some serious routes but what does that say about Leonte Carroo?
     
  38. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I like kupp that kid runs some really clean routes...top 50 grade being pushed down due to top end speed

    Tankersley has good ball skills and top end speed but I don't see a very willing tackler and kicked inside he has trouble staying attached and to me Miami needs slot with 3rd or 4th option boundary fall back more than anything else corner wise...
    Maybe they can get that slot with a safety add but whoever it is we need better carry coverage and stay attached out of cuts
     
  39. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    I am a CU alum and that defense this past season was incredible. DB Awuzie, S Thompson, and CB Witherspoon could all go today. Awuzie is my favorite of the three, but Witherspoon would be good too. Big rangy corner with good ball skills.
     
  40. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I should add when I say top 50 grade I don't grade relative to the class I grade relative to what I expect a prospect to have to validate a pick there...more a universal grading system been doing it for now I guess 12 years so...kupp carries a top 50 grade in any class being pushed down in this one due to long speed and the depth of the overall class...this class is as deep as any I can recall...
     

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