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No excuses

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, May 1, 2017.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    The Miami Dolphins have what they need to win the division. They had issues with the LB's, and they got two. The needed to replace IAQ, and they did that, with reinforcement in week 9. They have depth and corner and are healthy. They drafted two more DT's and this should push Phillips. Pass rushers? There is a quality rotation.

    Offense? Tannehill is in year 6. No more questions. He either is the man this year or we go get another. There is a ton of talent at the skilled position. RB's and WR's are super talented and healthy. No more excuses at Guard, Miami felt it needed only one, and got one.

    If this team doesn't win the division and have a bye, it will deemed a failure.
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Patriots are still in the division so as long as we make the playoffs I'd consider it a success.

    But there are no excuses for not making the playoffs.
     
  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Wait wha?

    I disagree....NE is still the class of the division. Vegas just released the win total odds for NFL teams today....NE opened at 11.5. Miami opened at 7.5. We have a difficult schedule, and are really in year two of a three year plan. I just dont feel as though your statement above is grounded in very much logic.
     
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  4. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not making the playoffs I agree with. We cant take a step back.
     
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  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    If they need players,there are free agent vets still out there. Offense is ahead of defense. RT has to win games for us


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Tough schedule. If we can win ten and make the playoffs we have done well.
     
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  7. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, very tough schedule this year. The excuse train for Tannehill actually left last year. We know what he can do at this point. I highly doubt we win the division unless Tom Brady and Janeane Garroffolo get injured. I'll settle for playoffs again and a healthy Tannehill.
     
  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with the assessment of the season being a failure if we don't win the division. It's going to take a lot more than just a second year in the program with Gase, and essentially only one real season/offseason of tooling the roster to Gase's liking to knock off NE for the division. Especially with NE's obvious effort to load up this season. They broke their traditional pattern IMO. They sold off picks to acquire top end talent from outside. Now, part of me feels that's because they want to make another run at the SB because Brady may want to pack it in despite what he's saying. However, it's also just likely they realize with him getting older, the easier they can make it on him the better. They're stacked everywhere on that roster. Yes, I agree we've done a good job re-building our own roster without blowing it up, but I'm just to so sure you can realistically set the expectations at win the division or it's a failure of a season.

    Of course, you always want to say your goal is to win your division. I think realistically expecting it though at this point, given what we're up against isn't right. To me though, the season is a failure if we don't make the playoffs in some capacity. We have improved key area's of weakness, on paper anyways. You hope the defense doesn't take a step back with Vance Joseph leaving, and it shouldn't given the fact we will have everyone back and healthy (assuming no training camp/pre-season disasters). That being said, I think you're stretching it a bit far saying win the division or it's a failure, but I think saying make the playoffs or it's a failure is a fair point. If we made it last year given the circumstances of the roster with injuries and such, you'd like to think you can make it this year if you're lucky enough to have your key, star players back and healthy.
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Personally, I'm tired of the "no excuses" thing.

    There are such things as reasons. Without an understanding of the reasons something good or bad happened, you cannot grow, learn and improve.
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If this franchise kept "growing", "learning" and "improving", I doubt so many people would keep saying "no excuses".

    Before last year we had 7 straight seasons of 6-8 wins = consistent mediocrity. And this franchise hasn't won the SB since the 1973 season! That's 43 years and counting. Even by "random chance" you'd expect one win every 32 years!

    So the "no excuses" sentiment should make sense given the pathetic state of this franchise (though Gase certainly has provided hope of turning this around).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Another 10 win season should be expected. Playoffs the goal.

    Until Belichick retires, along with their master cheat designer Ernie Adams, the Pats will win the division and/or tie for the same number of wins as the next best team.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No.

    I never said nor implied that the franchise has learned and grown. Nor did I say nor imply that understanding these things aren't excuses automatically means learning and growing and improving happens.

    The records are wholly irrelevant to anything I said.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    When you say you're tired of people saying "no excuses", it will be interpreted by some as a critique against them saying there should be "no excuses". I was just defending our usage of "no excuses" and explaining why the frustration with our lack of success is responsible for that. From that point of view my post (and the Dolphins' recent record) is very much relevant.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Frustration with X doesn't change the reality of X. Simple fact of the matter, is that most people call reasons, excuses and pretend that winning is by sheer will and wanting it more.
     
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  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    if Miami doesn't win over 7.5 games as vegas put it that's a shame, if they don't win 9 in my eyes its a failure.

    I see a lot of people saying its a tough schedule, last time I checked the division plays 90% the same games correct? give or take home and away? one nfc division one afc division plus your own. If your going to win a super bowl you have to win tough scheduled games and if you cant handle a tough schedule then your not even close to making it. Is everyone ok with a weak schedule, making the playoffs then getting blown out in the wild card game like last year?

    However I do agree that even with the schedule and the patriots still winning the division it will be a good test for RT if he does not succeed or show improvement against a "tough Schedule" then I would assume he isn't our man. this is all speculation and I surely hope Miami wins more than 8 games.

    the one constant in my eyes that I am unsure about is our ability to stop the run that is number 1 to me, now having to play beast mode and AP if we are still hovering 3.5+ a carry its not gonna look good.
     
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  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Here's something interesting.. if you add up all the expected win totals for all NFL teams as of May 1st:
    http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017...projected-win-nfc-east-giants-eagles-redskins

    you get a total of 259 wins, which is 3 more than the total number of wins possible in an NFL regular season (8*32 = 256). That means that IF there were even odds on every bet (I know there aren't!) and you always bet the "under" you would be expected to make money lol.
     
  17. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we won 10 games last year with an easy schedule but the intensive care ward of a roster that we fielded, we will have experienced depth this year. And if the football gods smile and most everybody stays healthy most of the season, I wouldn't rule out our giving New England a run for its money in the division, even with a harder schedule.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Regardless of how good anyone else is, the 2017 Miami Dolphins, on paper, are not Super Bowl contenders. They are clear playoff contenders, and you could certainly argue that they're in the conversation as the 4th best team in the AFC or so should things break right. They have the look and feel of a solid 10, or maybe 11 win team.

    That would be enough to win perhaps half the divisions in the league this, or most other years. Some years, with a little luck, that might even earn you a #2 seed. But, we don't play in those other divisions, and this isn't those other years. We play in the same one as Goliath, and as was said, not only are they good as always, but they've loaded up for a Super Run this season. Barring major injuries, New England looks to be a 14+ win team this season. The Fins could have a very, very good season and still finish 4 or 5 games back in the standings this year.

    You cannot be a reasonable person and fault them for not winning the division. Not winning at least nine games, and preferably at least 10, would be a strong disappointment. But to say that they must win the division is clownishly ignorant of the reality of the situation.

    The team is better than they have been in a long time under Gase. There is a clear plan moving forward, and the right moves are being made. The roster is very young, and replacements are being brought in for the few older quality players that we do have. But we have to be patient for a little while longer. Until either we become a 13+ win team on paper (something that hasn't been the case for 25-30 years), and/or New England fades a bit, we need to hope for the Division title, but not expect it.

    Enjoy the process. If and when it works, it will all be worth it. As someone who is also a Chicago Cubs fan, trust me on that.
     
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  19. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't know what "no excuses" means. If we win 7 games, Gase, Tannenbaum, and Grier are all coming back. I want to win every game, and keep think we can win most of them. I like what's building here.
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I can only speak for myself, but my opinion of Gase will sour if we win only 7 games (right now I think he's a good coach but not if we win only 7 this year). My opinion of Tannehill will sour too unless he puts up insane stats so that it's easy to shift blame to others, etc..

    Making the playoffs last year took a lot of the negativity I had towards certain elements of the team away, but fail to make the playoffs with an arguably better (or at least not worse) roster after making it the year prior and I'll lean towards making major changes to the roster rather than the minor ones I'm fine with right now.
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    There are a lot of excellent reasons why the Dolphins could win only 7 games. If there are 4 good injuries, Miami, like most teams, are boned.
     
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  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I can guarantee you that should we go out in Week 1, and lose to TB by something like 45-42, and RT throws for 400 yards, 4 TDs and no picks, there will be people blaming him for the loss.

    The Saints have gone 7-9 the last three years, and four out of five. Is it Drew Brees' fault?

    I don't mean to come down on you individually, but the notion that a QB deserves blame simply because the team isn't winning is one of my hot button issues. As I said before, this is all a work in progress. The team could have very easily gone 6-10 last season had just a handful of big plays not been made. And I wouldn't have thought any less of Gase than I do today.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We had some serious injuries at key positions last year. Tannehill went down, Reshad Jones went down, Pouncey, etc.. and we overcame because we had a coach that gave the team a never die attitude I haven't seen from the Dolphins in forever.

    No excuses for me period. Good teams find ways to overcome.
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah you're right. There will be people taking that position, but if Tannehill's stats are very good for the year, or if I saw great play during a game (in general I trust stats more over a season and what I see more for a single game) then I won't be one of the ones putting most of the blame on him.

    Has to be real clear though.. nothing "debatable".
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What if Ajayi, Landry, Tannehill and Suh went down? I highly doubt Miami wins 10 games. Plus Tannehill went down with 3 games lets and 1 game practically already won.

    Heck, with how bad the defense was last year, I couldn't imagine it if Suh and Wake went down.
     
  26. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Obviously there are limits to this thinking. Let's say all starters are out for the season and we only have backups. I'm not going to stick to a "no excuses" approach in such unrealistic situations.

    But in the one you're positing.. still no excuses. Too frustrated with hearing "reasons" or "excuses" (take your pick) for too many years. The injuries have to be a total catastrophe before I change my mind.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am more frustrated with hearing people complain about "reasons" and calling them excuses. Winning in the NFL is hard. Yes the Patriots have it down to a science, however, they are the weirdest and probably cheatingiest team ever.
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Winning in the NFL is hard, yes, but analyzing the causal relationships in football is even harder. The reason people disagree on what is a "reason" vs. an "excuse" is precisely because different people conclude different things from the same data.

    If you can prove that X causes Y (e.g. Suh going on injured reserve after game 4 directly means we should expect 1 less win for the season) then you have a case. But no one knows what the expected effects of different injuries should be which is why there's disagreement, down to the terminology used to describe the same event.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm sorry but that is absurd and precisely what i was talking about. You literally just negated talent as a factor.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Gase negated the loss in talent. If he's really a good coach then expect that kind of performance from him again (not hoping for injuries of course!!)
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, he didn't. The teams we played had less talent. When we played a team with more talent in Rd 1, what happened?
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You also cannot prove the opposite. So pretty much proving this conversation silly.

    Still, I am more than willing to bet if Tannehill went down in week 4, Miami is drafting in the top 10 this season or if Suh went down when Jones went down Miami is also drafting in the top 10. Or if Ajayi also went down, or if Gase ended up trading Ajayi if Ajayi decided to pout for one extra week.

    It is not like Miami was a dominate team last season, where they are in a "no excuse" situation.

    Heck, even the New England Patriots missed the playoffs after winning their first Superbowl.
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well.. this is an example of concluding different things from the same observations. Personally, I saw that never-die attitude I previously alluded to that allowed us to win so many close games. That's not happening under Philbin with the same talent. You can disagree if you want.

    Pittsburgh in the playoffs was just too strong for us I agree. Talent is obviously a factor, but a good coach goes a long way in nullifying talent deficits.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is all a reasonable position to take. So is mine btw haha.

    Anyway.. like I said initially it's the long record of underperformance by this franchise that is the difference maker. In a vacuum I'd probably be more likely to agree with you, but I can't get all those years' failures out of my head. I really really want to see us win a Super Bowl in my lifetime you know!

    hence the bias towards "no excuses".
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I actually agree with that.

    2017 is just a different year with different circumstances.

    I think if Miami stays relatively healthy, they should make the playoffs and make a Superbowl run. Saying that, there are plenty of valid reasons for that not to happen.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sigh.

    Yes, people can conclude two different things. That doesn;t mean both are correct or even valid. Simple fact of the matter is that teams we played at the end of the year were worse than us with all our injuries. This rah-rah hocus pocus stuff is absurd.

    Wait let me guess we were bursting with "it factor" too.......why did we lose to Pitt again?
     
  37. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Did you mistake this for the "Yes, Excuses" thread?
     
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  38. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    So you are essentially arguing Peirce's triadic 1) sign- 2) object- 3) interpretant, which translates as 1) Tannehill and his image - 2) Tannehill and Tannehillness itself - and 3) each possible expression of possibility for Tannehill.

    But nonetheless, there is a separation between sign and signified (object aka Tannehill).
     

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