Better put my helmet on for this one. Kevin Nogle at the Phinsider has a new article citing work done by Cian Fahey over at presnapreads.com. Here's the intro to Kevin's piece: "Miami Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill has consistently been among the most sacked quarterbacks in the league through each of his first five seasons in the league, with a lot of discussion about his “lack of pocket presence” among fans and analysts. The common discussion, and it is the same for any quarterback who is oft-sacked, is that the quarterback should have done something differently, whether it is stepping up in the pocket, rolling out, or throwing away the ball. How true is that discussion, however? In 2016, Tannehill saw the sack numbers plummet as the offensive line started to play better. Pre Snap Reads’ Cian Fahey recently released his “Quarterback Catalogue 2017,” broke down the league’s starting quarterbacks, analyzing the “avoidable” and “unavoidable” sacks for each passer... ...Where does Tannehill stand between avoidable and unavoidable sacks? The Dolphins’ quarterback led the league in 2016 with just one avoidable sack. He had 26 unavoidable sacks, according to Fahey’s analysis." Details are in the article - you can get to it HERE. EDIT - Fahey's analysis in found in his QB Catalogue and it's a book. You have to buy it. Here's Nogle's bit on the book in general, for anyone interested: "If you are interested in checking out Fahey's book - and it is definitely worth your reading time - you can purchase it here. The book has way more than we could ever talk about here, including an entire section just focused on breaking down Tannehill (4th in the NFL in accuracy? Tannehill’s success is more on his supporting cast than on anything the quarterback can do?), as well as league-wide sections on interceptable passes ("For the second year in a row Ryan Tannehill finds himself towards the top of the non-QB interception numbers..."), accuracy percentages, depth of throws, failed receptions, created receptions, adjustments, and more. Again, definitely worth a look at some good, in-depth analysis of exactly what is happening at the quarterback position around the league." It costs $19.99 but individual chapters can be bought for $5. Looks like each of the 33 QB's analysed get their own chapter.
**Plugs ears** *LA-LA-LA-LA* RT sucks. No pocket presence. It's him and not the rest of the team...And nothing you say will convince me otherwise!
You cant teach pocket presence. Could be the demise of his career. He needs a perfectline Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can most definitely teach pocket presence. And what this article is saying is that RT doesn't have bad pocket presence but, he rarely has a pocket. lol
I disagree, you can't teach pocket awareness. That is instinctual. Very few have this. I want to be proven wrong
So basically you are saying that people are born with an innate ability to avoid a pass rush? Is there a study you can point to?
If you're talking about RT how would you know? You could take the QB with the best pocket presence in the NFL, place them on the Dolphins, and they'd look like they had none.
And yet he hardly ever had people in his face. It matter not what those guys were being paid or where they were drafted. Hell, Brady himself was drafted #200 overall, does he suck too? Brady looks like he has exceptional awareness because he has exceptional protection. (And the Pats cheat)
No, he has the instinct to know where the pressure will come from and where to throw (which route). The point is, where would the offense have been if we threw the ball away vs taking the sack/fumble?
And that's where conversations like this get old. Never? So in 16 x 5 seasons, minus 4 injury games (76 total) he has never once had time to make a decision? Then how'd he ever manage to throw a pass? It's easy to go to absolutes, but the truth is rarely that black and white. Tannehill doesn't suck. Our line does not suck either. And blaming one to glorify the other is a fool's errand. They both made mistakes in 2016.
Bottom line is every QB of every franchise has his extremists. In a message board in about anywhere you can name you have fans being way too pessimistc in their judging and to apologetic in their defense of X. Its no different here.
I think that's the point of comparing Brady and Manning. They don't need the time. If you are able to recognize coverages, predict where your guy is going to have the best matchup, you're ready to throw as the ball is snapped. I'm not going to dispute Fahey's conclusions because I don't have the films. We know the guy has his biases and he's not objective, but that doesn't mean his conclusion is wrong. I'd have to see a cut up of all the sacks.
What does he mean by non-qb interception pass numbers? Does that mean interceptions caused by the receivers?
You're just gonna keep pushing and pushing that lie, aren't you? Well, I guess when your years' long argument goes up in smoke so dramatically, you might as well resort to fake news.
What did I say wrong? They didn't pull the freedom at the line back? Oh my, those were the words out of Gase's mouth. That's fake news? Want me to find the actual video? Or you still won't believe that? Oh wait a minute. You must have thought I wrote "they pulled it back because Tannehill couldn't handle it." Which I didn't. All I said was, they pulled it back. So you're saying they didn't pull that back? That it was the same all year??? Is that what you're saying?
I just did a search and found about 4, that were clearly unavoidable. I mean, maybe a Romo, Wilson, or Big Ben might have snuck away, but it's not fair to hold that standard to every QB. Those guys get out of unavoidable sacks all of the time (Rodgers too). I just feel Tanny is a tick slower then the best at seeing pressure. Not even sensing it, but seeing it front of him. He's not elite like the others but that's fine. I posted a clip a while back of a rusher right up the middle. I feel like Tanny has less peripheral than other QBs. I do recall last year when everyone almost jumped ship on Tanny, he took a sack while he was just sitting there. That's got to be the one avoidable sack. I mean, he sat there for a while. Might be Titans, not sure. But it was pretty bad. If there are more, then Fahey's just wrong. But so far I haven't found any.
Apparently, this is FAKE NEWS So Fin D is saying, this didn't happen. They didn't pull anything back. It was wide open all year. Or ... is this another instance of someone saying something innocuous, but taken as a slight against the golden boy so we gotta jump all over it. Naw, that can't be it.
This QB Catalogue 2017 is a good off season read. It's loaded interesting data and player comparisons.
Yet that has nothing to do with HOW the line played. Let me say again, the amount of money spent has ZERO to do with actual play. This is a lazy argument, and I can't fathom how it sticks around. You guys make these statements, yet people WHO ARE PAID to analyze these things, tell you you're wrong, yet you keep spouting the same broken arguments. Insanity.
No, I'm saying you left out all of the stuff about how Gase brought Thill into the game planning and should have listened to him more. Thill had full and complete audible privileges. Your bias is clear and has been recorded on this site. Also, for the thousandth ****ing time, your stupid quote was about the WHOLE EFFING offense.
People still say Tannehill has a bad deep ball but: http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...best-deep-ball-thrower-via-deep-ball-project/ With better defined routes, Tannehill’s accuracy soared. His overall accuracy [on passes in the air for 16+ yards downfield] of 64.1% was 4th in 2016, and his accuracy on throws of 20+ was 61.0%, The 2nd highest (only behind Derek Carr). Despite suffering from some receiver drops, Tannehill’s accuracy and placement were astonishingly good. We’re talking throws that rival the ones Aaron Rodgers makes on a daily basis! ... Tannehill also connected for a touchdown on 17 percent of his deep pass attempts, which led the NFL by a substantial margin. more here: https://brickwallblitz.wordpress.com/2017/03/26/the-2016-17-deep-ball-project-part-33/ IMO Tannehill is not a perfect QB, but he has been the victim of repeated lazy analysis that only looks at the headline stats (deep ball to Wallace, sacks, etc.) without looking into the reason why the numbers aren't great.
So I was right. I didn't say anything about it being pulled back because of Tannehill. But you have to defend him anyway. Carry on.
Stop. You said they pulled back the audibling. You weren't right. They pulled back the offense. Then they let Thill audible all he wanted and including him in game planning. I know it sucks to be wrong. Just let it go and move the eff on. Now quick....I insulted Brady and Belichick in Club and they need their champion to defend them....
No offense, but any site that ends in ".wordpress.com" means that the site's owner couldn't afford the fifty bucks a year for hosting. So while I'm not disputing it's validity, I'd take any domain like that with a grain of salt.
So if you're not disputing its validity, why make the comment? If you actual have evidence that what it's saying is wrong, please give it.
One interesting thing I have noticed about analysts in the media. Geenerally the film analysis guys like Tannehill better than the stat monkeys do.
I root for RT, hard. But how long until the excuses just get too much. Year 6 is here. Here is the truth, he must play better, bottom line. Like it don't like it, we need better overall qb play. Not only from a common sense standpoint, but there are issues still on defense. Teams around the league ask their qb's to win games single-handedly all the time. That probably is 2-3 wins a year. That's where teams get their bye and win 12-13 a year. Dare I say that he needs to be a stat his too? Yes, he has to be
Both exist. He has had line issues and he also lacks pocket presence. Maybe Gase can coach him up. But pretty soon this team will fill its holes and based on past drafts, teams are not afraid to mortgage the draft and trade up Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Again, you have trotted out some arguments that sound, on the surface, to be true, and have been made many, many times over the past 5 years. However, it's frustrating, because there is simply not much, if any, validity to the arguments. Pauly, and cbrad, have done extensive posting on this idea about how many wins an elite QB is responsible for singlehandedly, and 2-3 is outrageous. Frankly, saying any QB is "solely responsible" for one win is ludicrous, because even the best QBs need a defense to stop the opposing team once in awhile. For a QB to be effective, he needs receivers to catch the football. It is never, ever, a QB doing anything singlehandedly.
You didn't answer my question. Forget Thill and the Dolphins and football for a second..... What is the difference between a reason and an excuse?
Excuse is something you use when you dont meet expectations. It is an opinion. Reason is factual. RT has a lot of excuses and that is his reason Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So it's not a fact that up until last year Thill had a terrible oline, no commitment to the run game and the inability to audible? Interesting. Please give a fact (as you said is a reason) that Thill has poor pocket presence that can be clearly differentiated from those things I mentioned.
