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a steal in the third round ?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, May 19, 2017.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    very good article regarding Tankersley...looks more and more like we got another player at great value.

    http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...-secondary-revolves-around-cordrea-tankersley

    the best single effort of any defender in the conference this fall, posting an 84.7 grade after allowing only two catches for 23 yards on nine targets while hauling in two interceptions of his own.
    Tankersley shines in these complicated schemes, which Venables has been forced to rely on as multiple teams have put up big passing numbers in the process of mounting big comebacks. After building big leads against Louisville, Florida State, NC State, Pittsburgh, and Virginia Tech, every one of those teams fought back thanks to pass-heavy attacks of 35+ attempts that resulted in at least 250 passing yards given up by the Tigers.''


    and despite that, bottom line, all season long, in 15 games, gave up 259 yards to receivers..48 percent completion percentage..5 picks...42 passer rating against.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't like some of the half *** efforts to tackle either, but I think our culture will shape the up real quick or we"ll start to call him Tinkersley.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    damn man...Tankersley is fast, like really fast..im watching him against Florida state in 2015, and that dude tracked and caught Dalvin Cook on a full sprint by both players in the wide open field..
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I sure hope he works out dj, but I can't get our 3rd round drafting history completely out of my mind. This organization has been absolutely piss poor at drafting in the 3rd round. We do so much better in the 4th.

    In the 10 years 2006-2015 (excluding last 2 drafts because it's too early to tell).. in the 3rd round we picked: Derek Hagan, Lorenzo Booker, Kendall Langford, Patrick Turner, John Jerry, Michael Egnew, Olivier Vernon, Will Davis, Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner.

    Except for Olivier Vernon that's not a good list.

    In the 4th round in the same time period, at least we picked Soliai, Hartline, Lamar Miller, Jenkins and Sims along with a few others that didn't produce. For some reason, 4th>3rd and it's not all due to Ireland with his "acorn" philosophy.

    Not that any of this tells you anything about the current draft/regime or player, but it does give you reason to pause before premature celebration.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he's just a real good cover corner,I mean we can nitpick, but the dude knows how to cover, and is really freakin fast..no sense in over analyzing..he is a steal in the late third round, thats a starting corner right there.
     
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  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Kyle Jones is a fantastic writer.

    He knows his **** and is totally unbiased. Great article and exciting to imagine the trio of Howard/Lippet/Tankersley developing into one of the best fandoms in football. And thats not blowing hot homer air. That unit has a TON of potential.

    Really like the way this team is being constructed.
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    C-brad.......I'm just gonna forget that a highly intelligent gentleman like yourself just wrote that post..
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    me too..I feel real confident when watching Tankersley aka Tinkersley for now, that he can come in and cover based on pure talent and instincts..the rest he can learn on the fly...he's just good...and fast..

    I wanna give him a hard time about the dismissal of his services on some running situations, so he knows we know...the dude can tackle when he wants.
     
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I liked the pick a lot, he's a guy I had on my radar, horrible effort vs the run, really pathetic at times, but he can cover, the run stuff is so easily fixable, this dude can cover and run, lofty potential.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah with Raekwon in the middle just tackling anyone in sight, reshad being able to roam and play robber type, Suh killing people, wake and Harris off the edges..starting to sound pretty cool.
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    On the record..100 meters...10.88, in high school, I'm sure he could easily top that..
     
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  12. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    So Langford is/was not a good player? That's news to me. I strongly disagree with that.
     
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  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Hagan had a long career and John Jerry would be an upgrade over our guard situation every year since Miami let him go
     
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  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    When I did the "Pro Bowler, Starter, Rotational Player' thread, where for each draft you can expect one star player, one average starter and one rotational guy -- I chose Tankersley as my Pro Bowl / Star player. Have a feeling he's going to be the standout player of this draft class.
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not OV level no, and I didn't say he wasn't "good" per se. I said that list isn't a good list for 3rd round picks except for OV.

    Yeah.. but that list is still pretty bad, and the list of 4th rounders IMO was better.

    Remember guys.. we're talking about whether someone is a "steal" in the draft, not whether the guy can somehow manage to start somewhere in the NFL.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What the hell do 3rd round draft picks from different regimes have to do with anything? That is incredibly ridiculous.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Read the last sentence of the post you quoted. I said it doesn't have anything to do with the current selection per se.

    However.. looking at history does tell you how likely it is you get such a "steal" in the 3rd round. Except for OV I don't see any pick we made the last 10 years in the 3rd round I'd characterize like that.

    As far as this regime is concerned, note that Leonte Carroo is also a 3rd rounder that a lot of people gushed over and has yet to produce. Maybe he turns out to be a steal, maybe not. But I gotta see this happen first before I celebrate the pick.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    So you lump him in with the group that isn't good and then say he wasn't good per se? You created a division of talent with one side being good and the other not good, but it isn't as such per se? Then how could he be in the not good group? That doesn't make any sense. You did not say the good had to be at OV's level - yet that is now the qualifier for that division?

    I'm sorry but that is moving the goalposts at best.

    The list may be bad in general but you lumped a player that was/is good in with the not good players. Regardless of how the list shapes up that was a mistake.
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Con.. the whole thread is about whether the current 3rd round pick is a steal or not. OV is the ONLY guy I personally would characterize that way from the 3rd round in the time period I listed.

    So other than OV, every member on that list is evidence of us picking someone I wouldn't characterize as a steal.

    I've now explained this 3 times. There is no moving of the goalposts. And please don't put words in my mouth. Like I just told you in the post you quoted I'm not interested in players that can start somewhere but aren't considered steals because that's not the topic of the thread.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, why even bother drafting after round two.....oh wait...those same past regimes weren't great in round 2 either.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    cbrad there is no correlation or logic in these points, I mean I get that your stating the obvious, which is in our recent history we haven't been able to hit on our third round picks, relatively speaking, but to correlate those facts with tankersley is pointless no?
     
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  22. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting watching him on special teams.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he played a lot on special teams in his first two years at Clemson..humble that dude and teach him how to have an aggressive hungry mindset..
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Put his locker by Landry, Prodigy and Harris.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was thinking between Wake and Suh..either way works...prodigy will kick his a##
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Nitpick? He's very, very dumb and will struggle to learn NFL schemes. He has all the physical tools and none of the mental ones- the only time he excels is in man coverage with a very clear assignment. There's a place for him on this team and he will do great on situational downs, but the kid is almost un-coachable due to a very limited IQ.

    The only way he starts is if we switch to more man coverage....which is why we got rid of Vontae in the first place. They're similar players though. Both have great instincts, unbelievable talent, great hands/feet, etc...but they're both dumb as dog doo.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    In principle yes, in practice no.

    I've seen enough cases where people gush over college tape only for the player to never develop into a good NFL player. So I hope you're right about Tankersley but I'm going to wait till I see him have an impact in the NFL before I join you in celebrating the pick.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It just doesn't make any sense at all to base your own view of a player on other people's opinions of other players picked by other FOs.
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'm just playing the odds. It's a good strategy for a lot of things (including sports betting). Certainly makes sense.. not saying you or dj or anyone else should do it.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, it's lazy. Again, why bother drafting after round 2?
     
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  31. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Not that it has any bearing on Tank, but I think Langford was a 3rd round steal, a solid NFL starting DE.
     
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  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Because you have picks after round 2. There's a non-zero probability of hitting on a starter or a player like Ajayi = steal. Would be stupid not to use the picks you have.
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah.. I'm open to that way of thinking. Personally I wouldn't assign that label but this kind of argument I'm OK with.
     
  34. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It doesn't really change the fact that we haven't done too well in the 3rd, lol, but he was a good 3rd rounder.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, it would be better to use them to move up. Give up all your picks for one higher pick.

    And you're still left with the problem that you're not actually evaluating the player only a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the player....which is either silly or lazy.
     
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  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If you go purely by stats you will see that whether it's a good idea to trade up or not depends on position and whether you're after a starter, pro-bowler, etc.. Probabilities are different depending on what you're after so it's not a given you're better off trading all your low round picks (especially the lowest rounders.. gain is tiny by trading them if we're talking about improving position within top 2 rounds).

    And playing the odds isn't silly IMO.

    In any case, this discussion has run its course. Go ahead and have the last word (as usual) and we'll move on.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
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  37. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Except you e never labeled OV as a steal; you have however only said he was the one good player from the list. Being good and being a steal are not inherently the same. The only time I've seen you say steal in relation to OV is just now, I could be wrong on that but I haven't seen it.

    That was the parameters of what you said. The context of the thread was not born out in your statement as to who was good or not.

    Now whether you've stated it three times has little bearing on the fact that being a steal and being good are not one in the same. That is the crux of the issue which is based on your delineation of good and not good.

    If you had said OV was the only steal based on his perceived production that would be different. Again it was only said that he was the only good player on the list. As such I disagree with that statement as Langford was a good player.

    If the parameters of the qualification change the. It could very well be considered to be moving goalposts. Whether you meant to do that is another matter IMHO.

    If we disagree as to whether Langford is a good player or not is fine. But getting production from a third rounder is something is expect rather than be surprised at but that's just me.
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You aren't playing anything. You're not a GM.

    Call it what you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that evaluating a player by not evaluating the player but instead basing his eval on other players and past regimes, is frankly stupid and weak. Odds are against us winning the SB ever....probably should stop watching the game.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    perspective...compensatory late 3rd round pick..durability...talent rules..his numbers looked great against great competition..tested well...fast..production...last two years...9 ints..20 passes defended..100 tackles..

    sometimes from our seats we can't account for the mental side, so you might be right in this case, he will be 24 years old later this winter...but a corner picking up the scheme is not rocket science..

    what I just wrote has the perspective of a very late 3rd round pick Imo.

    do you not feel its justified?,and, who would you have taken?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    im not gushing, gushing for me is how bad I wanted Zach Cunningham, I'm keeping perspective of the value, relative to the talent, production and durability, relative to what was available, what we had already taken, and it comes out justified with a pretty high ceiling for a late third rounder.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
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