Miami Will Surprise Us In a Couple Weeks

At this point Mangold and Clady are journeymen

 

I'm worried about the talent along the offensive line too, however, there has been good offensive line play without high resources. In contrast, there has been fantastic offensive line play with high resources. I'm really hoping the staff can coax the former out of our talent pool right now. It's definitely a wait-and-see situation. If it's not coming together by the middle of training camp, I trust the staff and FO to make a move.

 

For most people the term "journeyman" is a reflection of name recognition rather than actual ability. I have no idea if Larsen, Urbik or Steen, etc., have the ability to be part of a good OL or not. But I have faith Gase's ability to make that determination. He may not be able to convince a fan that they're happy with the OL but they probably don't care to either.

 

The problem with Mangold is money. He wants a lot of it. Yeah, he's a multiple-year pro bowler. But he's also old and coming off an injury. Let it be known that I'm not a fan of Pouncey coming back a week before the regular season and jutting right into the C spot either.

 

That is a lot for a back up center.

 

But here we're talking about the quality of the OL. You're argument against the guys we have seems mostly based on name recognition. I'm not claiming that I know they'll be fine, but whether you can be convinced of it is irrelevant.

For the record, I'm not against Mangold, but I'm also not sure that he would want to come here. Reportedly, he doesn't want to play G and if Pouncey is healthy then he probably wouldn't start at C. I guess we could re-try Pouncey at G, but that did't go great last time (injury may have been a factor). Also I don't see Mangold as a guarantee that the OL is solidified. He's a 33 year old coming off of injury that showed some definite signs of decline last year. Many OL play well into their mid 30s, but even more drop off quickly at that age. Once they drop off even a former probowler can be no better than what we already have.

 

Here is my speculation on what's happening with Mangold. I tend to think like many people on this board that he and his agent thinks that he should be paid. I personally think it is less than the $7 million number being thrown around here.

I think his agent knows that most teams (including the Dolphins) are in "wait and see mode." Many teams like the Phins have brought in rookies and would like to see how they look before signing a veteran. Additionally, Mangold would never go into a situation where he could be beat out by a rookie because coaches decide to put a younger guy on the field early. Mangold most certainly wants to start and teams most certainly do not want to pay a starter's salary to a backup.

So how will this end? In roughly the next three weeks, one of two things will happen.

A - A team will realize that the rookies that they have brought in are not good and sign Mangold.
B - A veteran will get injured and a team will sign Mangold.

One of these two scenarios is ultimately how Mangold gets maximum monetary value.

 

There is no way that you pay a backup OL half of that, regardless of our situation. That would be insane. Do we pay attention to any players that may be let go from other teams in camp and the preseason? Yes, we absolutely do.

However, for however long it takes Pouncey to get onto the field, we have a combination battle for the LG and C positions between Urbick, Steen, Brendel, Larsen, and Asiata.

Urbick has started 63 games in the NFL, at both center and guard, and now has a year in our system under his belt.

Steen was an undrafted rookie last year. Now, he's a guy who started seven games last year, has familiarity with RT and the coaches, and should be better than he was.

Larsen has started 65 games in the NFL, at both center and guard, and will be looked at for both positions. I see him as the likely backup at all three interior positions in a best case scenario.

Brendel was a young guy new to the league and team last year. We'll see what he shows in camp.

Asiata is a rookie with a lot of physical gifts but some questions with his technique, footwork and stamina. I would love for him to win the LG job, but he has to earn it. If not, he should be quality depth while he learns.

Look around the league at the backups teams have on the interior OL. We fare pretty well by comparison to most as far as depth. What we lack is of course quality starters, but not everything can be remedied in a year. I'm hoping that we look at improving next offseason.

Now, we do have legit questions with our backups at OT. Sam Young was terrible last season. It wouldn't be shocking to see him cut. Avery Young, Jesse Davis and Terry Poole are essentially rookies, having never played in a regular season game. Eric Smith is a rookie. They're all raw and unknown, so we had better hope that Tunsil and James stay upright. But again, splurging on an expensive, washed up veteran is not the answer.

 

Sorry, but I completely disagree. If healthy, Pouncey is the best in the business and all signs point to him being healthy by kickoff. Tunsil is a top 10 talent at left tackle and will be for quite some time. James consistently ranks around the middle of the pack at right tackle- he's not amazing but there aren't any free agents that are better either. And although he's not a top talent, he rarely has a really bad game. On good weeks he's a top 5 tackle. On bad weeks he's 15th.

That's 3 of 5 slightly above average to way above average.

I don't love Bushrod at guard but he sort of falls into the same class as JJ- he's not awesome but not bad either. Gase loves him though and insists that he's a solid option when healthy, which he was for all of 2016. That's good enough for me. Aista will likely be a long-term answer at LG by mid-season, so that means we need Steen, Larsen and/or Urbick (or another young player) to carry the early load. Neither Clady of Mangold solve this problem, and there's not a better FA guard floating out there than Larsen. So I think it's a three man rotation here until someone sticks....likely Larsen early and Aista down the road.

Still though, I think that we have our long-term starting five for a couple of years...with Bushrod the biggest issue at 32 years old. If Aista develops like many expect, then we need to grab Bushrod's eventual replacement and we're good for another 5-6 years as long as we keep grabbing depth. Overall, this group has the potential to be around a top 12 line...not awesome but worlds ahead of some of the other squads out there. And I just don't think we will ever be able to build a squad like Dallas- that takes decades of work, fantastic scouts and elite coaching.

 

If Mangold would be willing to play guard, I'd love to have him here, because he'd probably be better at it than either Bushrod and/or Larsen, and quite frankly we need a Pouncey insurance policy. But I doubt he'd be willing to do that.


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I have wanted the Dolphins to sign Mangold since he was let go by the Jets. Because even though I think that Pouncey is one of the best centers in the league when he is healthy. The fact is he isn't healthy and the chances of him playing more than half the games this coming season is extremely slim.

My problem is that it appears the Dolphins are counting on Pouncey to be healthy and therefore they
aren't willing to pay Mangold the type of money he obviously wants, because it appears they see him as only a backup center at this stage of his career. I don't agree with this point of view, but I am not the person responsible for paying Mangold.

I suspect Mangold and Clady will will sign with NFL teams in the near future but I doubt it will be the Dolphins. I hope I am wrong because I think either one of them or both of them would certainly upgrade the OL but I just don't see the Dolphins paying either of them the type of money they
must be looking for at this time.

 

Look. If we are not bringing in a suitable backup at C and paying him like he will be the starter for 1/2 the year which he will then we are damned fools. No history of Pouncey points to him suddenly making it through all the games and 2 playoff games which is quite possible. Bring in Mangold or Steens or whoever and pay them because the proof is in the pudding on Pouncey. He's always injured. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW GREAT HE IS OR ISNT. It's just a fact, the dude can't stay healthy. So have a freaking backup plan other than "we'll figure it out". We'll figure it out isn't a backup plan it's desperation and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. This coaching team is paid to have a plan and then a backup plan.

 

They have three players who are their backup plan

 

I think they would like to roll over as much $ as they can, as it sits there is only about 4 mil in cap space for next year and they still want to sign Landry.

I know there will be other moves to free up cap space, but it's going to be tighter next year than what we're used to, so rolling as much $ might be looking good to them right now.

 

From Barry Jackson's Sports Buzz... http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article158796034.html


A source very close to Dolphins center Mike Pouncey said the expectation is he will be ready for the regular season opener, barring an unexpected setback.

The Dolphins have said they’re hopeful of having him for all 16 games but haven’t said anything more definitive than that, leaving some questions.

But it’s important to note that Pouncey wasn’t held out of the offseason program for precautionary reasons; he was held out because doctors haven’t cleared him. So there will remain some doubt until we actually see him on the field.

The perennially troublesome hip wasn’t the only problem Pouncey dealt with this spring. According to a source, he also was in discomfort from a bacterial infection in his inner thigh, which has been treated.

The Dolphins inquired about free agent center Nick Mangold a while ago but have not called about him recently. Mangold, 33, is a seven-time Pro Bowler, as recently as 2015.

People who have spoken to the team believe they’re comfortable with their options (Kraig Urbik, Ted Larsen, Anthony Steen) if Pouncey has a setback.

Urbik is the likely starter if Pouncey is unable to play. A source inside the building said that if Pouncey is sidelined, players prefer Urbik over Steen at center because Steen took too long to make calls, at times, last season.

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Something to note is that Steen was playing OC for the first time ever last season and was only converted to OC during camp once Pouncey went down. You'd think if the team wasn't pleased with having Larsen, Urbik, and Steen all able to play OC, that they would've made a move.

Also, Mangold will most likely do like Evan Mathis did a few years ago and wait and cherry pick a team after August camps are over - if he still wants to play.

 

if they think he can start the year, they won't make a move, simple as that..im sure the strength coaches have tested him and have projected a level of play from that standpoint..

Of course I would like to sign Mangold but you can't always build a team the way you want, there is this thing called the salary cap, and he might be asking too much at this point for us to fit him..especially if we sign Juice..

maybe when the start of the season get closer and we get info that Pouncey has had a setback or the projection is completely off we will make some cap adjustments and sign him.