How did he last 6 years here? Why was he always the starter? Why was Zach constantly praising him? The only reason he wasn't resigned was due to his back problems, which happened just at the same time he was becoming one of the best DT's in the league. JP has 42 tackles in 2 years, DG had 84 in his first 2 years, how is that similar, that's twice the production, and good numbers for a DT, also with Zach Thomas stealing all the tackles, which makes it even more impressive. Tim Bowens wasn't an old man, he'd been in the league 2 years, I think you are confusing DG with someone else, Daryl Gardener was a beast until his back gave out, he wasn't a bum at any time in his career.
Not confused at all, and really surprised that considering how critical you are of Suh, that you're giving DG such an aqua colored glossing. Gardener was a narcissist... praising him was part of keeping him motivated and when he wasn't getting praise he praised himself. He was known as a braggart and was part of the reason he was considered a bad locker room guy. In 96, Gardener had a combined 32 tackles at DT. He had 52 in 97. In 2015, Phillips had 20 tackles as part time player. Last season, Phillips played both DT and DE, again in a rotation in a completely different defense and nowadays teams rotate players more often. They both had 2.5 sacks their first 2 seasons. Sure DG had more tackles but he also had more snaps in Jimmy's defense. "Ole man Timbo" wasn't a reflection on Tim Bowens age, but rather his demeanor. He was well grounded and a cool cat. He mentored Gardener and tried to help keep him on track when he was here. As for the other stuff, here's a fun article... http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...release-daryl-gardener-dolphins-drop-gardener As for him being a bum, go read what was written about him by the Skins and Broncos... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1173228-the-25-most-overrated-miami-dolphins-in-franchise-history DG's career is remembered for being partnered with Timbo and for 2 fights. One with McDuffie and the other with a guy at IHOP. He was also in the news a few years ago for assaulting his gf in a nightclub where she claimed he head-butted her. Is what it is... YMMV.
How much does Suh get rotated out? If you are really good, you get rotated less, which was the case for Gardener, JP gets rotated out because of ineffective play. It's not a completely different D, this D is based on JJ's D, it is a bit different, but that has little to do with getting on the field. DG got on the field, stayed on the field and produced, nothing you write can change that, the numbers are there in a system where the DT's were to occupy space to let Zach run free, and yet he still put up very respectable numbers, and after a couple years starting, he got some tech's down and started sacking the QB as well. His 1 season in Wash, 15 games at NT/RDT he had 4 sacks and 52 tackles, I'm not sure how that is a bad season, that is a productive DT. However, his back was shot, which is the reason we didn't resign him, his last 2 seasons here he played in 10, then 8 games, still very productive, actually he was just getting better, but the writing was on the wall, his back was shot and his career was over basically after one more season.
So you now think Suh is really good? Like maybe better and more consistent than DG? And you completely ignored the team sources and links backing up the reasons why he was dumped. Bottom line is that he would have been here a couple more years if he hadn't been a PITA to deal with. Again, DG was good on the field when he wanted to be but never as good as his own hype.
Well lets go back to what you originally said, that DG = JP, which is false, the article you posted has Spriggs saying how good he was and the writer pointing out how the run D went south without him. DG was a beast, but his back was shot, surgery in 2000, surgery in 2001, the writing was on the wall, fights and cockiness are a bad thing for the big uglies? I don't think so, if he was healthy, it would have been fine.
No, I said he reminds me of DG, so not false. And you're the one who brought Suh into the conversation. ;-) Interestingly, Zach had one of his best years after we cut DG and there was no noticeable drop-off for Zach once Gardener was replaced with Larry Chester. Being aggressive on the field against your opponents is a good thing, yes. Against teammates, no. And blowing off workouts, team meetings, and ignoring the coaches. That'll get you cut. And did. Anyway, all said, if Phillips stays healthy and continues to improve he very well may have a better career. Wouldn't be that hard as DG was never even voted to the pro-bowl a single time and Phillips is still young, healthy, talented, and about to play his second season in the same defense. Let's hope he becomes a real beast on the field.
"Right now he and Phillips aren't that far apart at either level." This is what your argument was, and it's not true, plain and simple, on the team with the HC that practically invented Dline rotation, DG stayed on the field, and JJ was not at all famous for dealing with non hackers, he's famous for cutting them. Off the top of my head, I remember Dorian Brew, a 3rd round pick that got cut before the season started, never played one down with us. Larry Chester was also a good DT, and he never went to the PB either, and he wasn't as good as DG. DG last season with us he played 8 games had 4 sacks and 27 tackles, if his back hadn't gave out he was becoming a dominant DT, who was equally good vs the run and pass. JP hasn't shown much improvement at all, he gets pushed around out there at times, which is what takes him off the field, that NEVER happened to DG, even as a rookie, in case you've forgotten, he was 300lbs of solid muscle; The dude was a freak of nature, he had zero technique when he got here, but no one could push him off his spot, he was a combine spectacle that has never been replicated, he was off the charts on everything, wherever he was, that's where EVERYONE was, with jaws on the floor, how can a guy that big run so fast, how can a guy that big jump so high, and so far, how can a guy that big be built like that. The only thing they have in common is college rep, position and height, 6'6".
I do not agree. Jordan Phillips has shown improvement. He was the type of player who never had to give 100% effort all the time and he was much more consistent as a 2nd year player and a rookie. Phillips also has great ability for a man his size. DG was a fine player, but my memory of him is mostly disappointment. A player who should have been a monster, however, was decent. Not nearly as good as my man Timbo.
It was clear during the mini camp press conferences that JP (and everyone else) knows he was lazy. So, that being the case, you have to wonder how long he will last if he doesn't change. Ajayi got left at home for a bad attitude. Turner and... the other guy, whose name I forget, got cut. Gase is going to have a lot of potential talent to cut down to the 53. If this year is like last year there might not be room on the roster for a guy who refuses to pull his weight. If that's the new culture then hopefully he'll know it and up his game.
Sure. But perhaps his effort at that point wasn't considered an attitude thing. Maybe it was. Either way, with one more year under the bridge one would expect Gase and team have less patience for players who don't give it their all. That is assuming what we saw last year is how things will continue.
IMO, I think we saw a player go on the trajectory that they thought he was going to be on. He is a player who is from a small town in highschool, where he was a monster among boys. Then in college he wasn't asked to work that hard. So he never developed a good working habit. So his rookie year he was barely counted on. Then his second year he did show improvement. It was not a 180 degree turnaround, however, there is a saying, "A leopard cannot change its spots". It is a saying I do not believe in, however, it is there for a reason. It is hard to change. He is changing years of bad habits. It isn't easy. However, he recognizes there is an issue and is working out with Suh, who is notorious for his hard work and dedication. I am not concerned about JP at this moment. I saw improvement from year 1 to year 2. I see the desire to change. I see him putting in the work. Sometimes it does not work out, however, I do not see much reason to believe that it won't.
I am in this camp. I saw some improvement from him in year two...but he, and many others in the organization have realized it wasn't enough at least where effort is concerned. If he can find a way to give more effort, be more diligent, our team can be really really good on the Dline. Sometimes we forget we have Suh, because teams can commit their scheme to blocking him. If JP cames alive, they have to pick their poison.
I'm in agreement. Although I'll say I haven't paid great attention to him specifically the last two years. Just that I can see the huge value he could bring as well as the fact he could easily be gone if he doesn't step up. The roster spots are just too valuable. Could someone in the coaching team truly believe in him and be patient hoping to see him develop? Maybe. Not sure that's the case though.
The lack of depth behind him shows me they must believe in him a decent amount. Behind him Miami has two rookies and a very talented hopeful journeyman
I get that you're somehow emotionally involved in DG and dislike Phillips, but it changes nothing... DG was surely a physical freak, combine spectacle, yada yada... yes, but never even made the pro-bowl once and we didn't miss a lick when he was cut and replaced with Larry Chester. Timbo was the better DT just as Suh is now. As for DG's back giving out, you yourself pointed own he went to have a productive season with the skins after being cut. But then, he was motivated to. Cool pic. Any bubble shots for DJ?
We publicly flirted with Dontari Poe back in the spring. That was a clear message to Phillips and a few others. Hoping he continues to improve and has a great season for us.
I do not necessarily agree. I think they want a decent 3 man rotation. Plus flirting is different than dating.
Who wrote that? Now you're just flailing. Again, DG never lived up to his potential. It is what it is.
He got a beast contract because he was a beast, you keep trying to insinuate that he was like JP, JP is fighting to keep a spot on the roster, DG was fully entrenched as the starter at this point. You have been arguing a flawed analogy, "he never made the PB", JP is in danger of not making the team, he certainly isn't going to draw a 50 mil contract, 17 years later. DG was a beast whether you'd care to admit it or not.
Lol... you really think Phillips is in danger of not making this roster? Seriously? My point with the PB reference was that if DG was all that you claim he was, then he should've easily had a few PBs and made All-pro. Instead, he was never great despite having all the physical tools. As for his contract, so what? He wasn't the highest paid defender on the team and back then contracts were proportionally larger. As someone else mentioned, Haynesworth also got a monster contract...
Hmmmm...I can't go there. To have Ndamakung Suh and another really good 330 lb DT next to him...for me, that is about as good as it gets on the DL. Esp with the ends we have.
