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Great Article - Would The Dolphins Be Better in Another Division?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rickysabeast, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    Article goes on to say how the Dolphins in their current iteration would be dominant in any other division...http://phinphanatic.com/2017/07/11/what-if-the-dolphins-were-in-a-different-division/

    I agree that should the Dolphins be in basically any other division, they would be perennial Playoff contenders. Now you have to play that all the way out meaning we'd probably still have Wannstedt or at least Saban as the coach as we would have had more success. Though, with that said, we've had a lot of bad years. Right now, we just need to look at the Patriots as the competition they are and let it cause us to continue to improve. If we can take them down we can take anybody down.
     
  2. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    to beat NE you have to do three things:
    stop the short plays with corners
    edge rush the hell out of them
    and have a balanced attack on offense

    are we ready?
     
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I will go with no. The Bills and Jets are just OK. We normally split with New England. in theory if Dolphins were good should be 5-1 each season in division. All division games are normally more difficult within any division.
     
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  4. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    YEP!
     
  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    if we are 5-1 in our div then can we go 7-3 rest of the season?
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'm also a no. We're 9-7 against the Jets since 2009 and 8-8 against Buffalo since 2009. Jets' overall record during that time is 61-67 and Buffalo's is 52-76. That's pretty pathetic really, especially against Buffalo.

    And if you remove the 4-12 record we have against NE since 2009, Dolphins are 55-57. So we're basically average against non-NE teams in the NFL meaning we'd have realistically made the playoffs only in those divisions where a 9-7 won it (let's leave out wildcard because the chances of getting in with a 9-7 as a wildcard should be similar across divisions.. it means there was a strong team in your division that year).

    The only cases since 2009 where we would have guaranteed made the playoffs with 9-7 are: 2010 NFC West (8-8 wins division), 2011 AFC West (9-7 wins division), 2013 NFC North (9-7 wins division) and 2014 NFC South (8-8 wins division). Otherwise 9-7 might have won the 2015 and 2016 AFC South, and the 2011 and 2015 NFC East depending on the tiebreakers.

    Notice no single division comes up twice except AFC South and NFC East where it's a coin flip because of the tiebreaker. So Dolphins if lucky would've made the playoffs maybe once between 2009-2015 if we played a different division.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Since we're the southern-most team, I always thought it was crazy that we're not in the AFC south. For the sake of argument, let's say we throw Jacksonville into the East and we slide to the South...and let's apologize to Jacksonville ahead of time since it's a death sentence for them.

    We usually play Tennessee and Texas pretty tight so I don't see it much different from Buffalo and NY. If anything, it's really a wash in what we could expect to win annually- those should be 2-2 or 3-1 seasons with the occasional 4-0. Not much different from being in the AFC East. And Indy is a lot like NE in that they have the potential to blow anyone out on a good day. They're not at NE coaching level but still, that can be anything from an 0-2 season to a 2-0 against them.

    With that said, it may give us a slightly better chance to sweep the division. HOWEVER, now you have the Bills getting 2 freebie games against Jacksonville and you're essentially handing them a wild card slot. The Jets would likely be +2 wins as well. So if we don't win the division over one of the other teams in the South, it's that much harder for us to see the post season.

    The way I look at it though, I look forward to each of our Jets and Bills games. I would miss that something fierce- and I don't know anything about the Texans and Titans. Most of all though, I'd really hate not getting two shots at New England since that sets the tone for the season- you have to play the best to beat the best. So I'd be very much against this move even though it would give us slightly better odds of making the playoffs.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why the 2017 Fins can't do all three things well. The three things you named were EXACTLY what we drafted for the last three years, and I think we become scary if Harris pans out (which I question more than others).

    I'd add a 4th thing to that list though- stop the run. That's where NE really hurt us last year once they built up a little bit of a lead. If the defense tightened up just a little and our receiver didn't fumble in the redzone, I think Moore got that win for us. The run D was pretty good in the early game where Tannehill went off in the 2nd half, but we know that's not the tone we saw for the season. I think to beat NE consistently you have to have a solid all-around defense or they'll find ways to burn you, so I'm looking at the LB corp just as hard as the corners and ends.

    I still think we're good though and we will have some highly competitive games this coming year. It can't start soon enough for me!
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I meant that they were winnable games...I don't remember a lot of blowouts like we face in New England each year. But you're absolutely right, we're much better off in NY than we are at the Texans.
     
  11. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think so.

    I mean, sure, we may have had more chances to win the division without having to play Brady twice a year, but look at the alternatives.

    If we played in the North (highly unlikely since we're the southernmost team), would we really have been prepared to compete with Pittsburgh as strong as they were/are year in, year out. Baltimore for the same reasons, and of course Cincy has come on recently too. Cleveland isn't worth talking about, but of course we'd take the place of one of those teams. So, I don't think we fare any better in the North.

    The West... again, doesn't make sense for us to even be in that division, but for the same of the discussion, lets pretend. I think we could maybe have seen more success here recently as the teams haven't been all that great inside this division. Sure, there was the Manning years in Denver where they likely would have taken it to us. KC has been consistently ok. Oakland, we all know has struggled until recently, and San Diego always seems to be up and down. So, I think if I had to pick one, it's the West that maybe we would have fared better in, but there's no way we'd shift to the AFC West.

    The South... geographically makes the most sense for us. Would it help us win? I doubt it. If you look at the past, with Manning in Indy all those years, we likely face the same challenge with them as we have with NE. Sure, we probably could have snuck out some wins there since their D has never been top notch. Jacksonville is always at the bottom, so there's a positive for us. Houston seems to have always had our number, and Tennessee always plays us tight too over the years. So, I don't see a scenario here where we're better off either.

    I won't bother to look at the NFC, because I don't see a scenario where we ever change conferences, so why bother looking at those hypotheticals? I think if we had a better chance in another division it'd have been the West over the years, but lets be honest, that's not happening since we're on the east coast.

    Bottom line here to me, I think the ultimate answer is No. Sure, there's the opportunity for a possible handful more wins and less losses if we aren't playing the Pat's twice a year, but ultimately we've really stunk against the other two teams in Buffalo and the Jets. It's not necessarily NE. Sure, they're routinely winning 12 or so a year, but we haven't exactly helped ourselves against Buffalo and New York either. IIRC, the years we've actually played NE well and split, we've also been swept by either Buffalo or the Jets. Bottom line is, I think every division is kind of like ours. You've either got a routinely good team that's stable at HC and QB that tends to always win the division, or you've got two consistent teams where it always plays out as one winning the division, the other taking a wildcard. If we take care of our own business against the Bills and Jets this season, and do well outside the division, regardless of whether we takedown NE or not this year, we should still go back to the playoffs with a wildcard spot. I don't see a logical scenario where the division makes a difference. They're all pretty balanced with their own ups and downs, and have teams who have typically consistently won their own divisions as well.

    Our problem hasn't been so much being in a division with NE, a lot of it has been the mismanagement of our own roster, draft picks, player development etc. etc. compared to that of a team in NE with an established QB, HC, system etc. etc. They've been well run, we haven't. Another division may get you a handful of more wins, but drastically change the course of history? Doubtful IMO because there'd be similar challenges in other divisions.
     
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  12. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think in the short term, the answer is yes; however, in the next few years, I think we could surpass the Patriots.

    I think that once Tom Brady is gone, the Pat' fortune will begin to change. I really don't think that he honestly wants to play until his is 50 or whatever he is claiming. I tend to think he just says that so he doesn't have to deal with retirement questions in every interview he does from now until he actually retires. I also thought it to be a bit curious that the Pats didn't trade Jimmy Garoppolo to Cleveland when they had the chance. It makes me wonder if internally the Patriots do not expect Brady to play for much longer.

    I remember watching him cut up our defense but thinking to myself this was more about our team being horrible than him being good. I remember watching more than a few of his passes (deep especially) look considerably off target. I thought to myself, "Jimmy is a huge step back from Brady." If I could take you back to that game, remember our team the first four weeks was AWFUL. The following week we would barely squeak out a win vs. Cleveland and the week after that was probably the season low vs. Cincy. Our o-line was a mess, Maxwell was playing so poorly it led to his benching, and after Cincy, Gase was forced to reiterate that RT was his QB for the season. Realistically, Garoppolo is getting a ton of love from two games which might lead to a big contract, but in terms of NFL success, just ask Brock Osweiler if a contract has anything to do with performance.

    I think that once Brady is gone, it may become apparent that some of his "amazing" offensive talent might not be as amazing as it first appears. Once Brady is gone, the Patriots become very beatable.
     
  13. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    OK, I didn't read the article yet, just going by the thread title and I have to say this...

    To be the best, you have to beat the best. Putting Miami in another weaker division would do nothing but give the Dolphins a false sense of superiority and lead to perennial departures from the playoffs after the first round.
     
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  14. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Imagine the Colts staying in the AFCEast, back in 2002, with Miami going to the AFCSouth. From a geographic perspective it makes more sense.

    Miami would have done better not facing the Pats twice a year. Not so many cold weather games.

    More playoff teams over the years, but I don't see a Super Bowl win. Our current team would own that division now though.
     
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  15. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    We would've been a playoff team in 2013, 2014 and maybe even 2015 if we had played in the AFC South like we should.
     
  16. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I remember looking at it a while ago and the AFCE has basically been one good/great team and 3 average teams in the Brady/Belichek era. Yes the Jets Fins and Bills have been up and down but overall they've been about average against teams other than NE over the long term.

    So I don't think moving to another division would really make much of a difference, unless you are talking about the AFCS. Since Peyton's retirement that division has been bad, and no team has a .500 record or better against non divisional opponents (I have to recheck that, but I don't think it's changed in the last 2 years).
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Difference does it make, you will still meet the other teams in the playoffs.
     
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  18. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    You young uns forget...we dominated the AFC East from day one til 2001 basically. DOMINATED IT!, maybe excepting the Fluffy Ho's run in the mid 80's, but even then they had to beat us to get there.
     
  19. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I see a lot of people saying that geographically speaking we should be in the south, but, we are no farther south than we are east so I'd say it was a tie.
     
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  20. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Brady will retire soon. lol
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I honestly never thought about it that way....but it feels like South should win over East. Who has the beacon that says "Southernmost Point in the United States....70 miles to Cuba?" We do. And darn it, that means something! The southernmost team should be in the south.

    Notice I didn't say "most Southern" though...then we'd belong in the East or the North.
     
  22. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I dont want to be in another division. For close to 20 years we owned the AFCE like Pats have for the last 17. We went to 5 SuperBowls in that stretch and won 2 of them. Even through most of the 90's we fielded pretty good teams even though we couldn't seem to get around those darn Bills for a few years but that made it fun to watch them loose 4 straight in the big one. The Pats time is almost up, but the thing for me is I dont want to wait for Brady and Belichek to retire, I want to kick their *** right now. It will mean more.
     
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  23. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but Indianapolis makes zero sense being in the South.
     
  24. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Would you rather meet the Pats up in Foxboro OR Miami come January? Watching Manning and Brady go head-to-head twice a year (at least) would have been cool too.

    It was 'tradition' that kept Miami in the AFCEast, and I get that. It just makes for an interesting 'What if' conversation. As I noted above, even with the division change, I don't see a Super Bowl winning team.

    By the time Gase has the team he wants, Brady should be done (I think he plays this year and next before retirement). That leaves the division open for the taking by a still fairly young Dolphin team. If we can challenge the Pats before then? Great! They are a loaded team this year, but another solid draft and a free agent or two and 2018 should be a real contest for the division. Maybe even this year, if we can rely on the Madden Curse! :)
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I think Brady is one of the greats, top 3, as long as belicek is there they will find someone competent enough to win with until the find a great one.
     
  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    True, true, but, Miami is an EC mecca, it's the pinnacle of EC resort cities, it's synonymous with the EC, if you polled world wide, 5 US EC cities, NY, Miami and Boston would be the top 3 answers.

    It may be called South Beach, but it's on the EC :smile:
     
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  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You know, not that I want the Dolphins in another division, but looking at the map of NFL teams, it's apparent that realignment needs to happen, but it won't happen due to the long standing traditional match-ups. The NFL should realign once more, putting teams more in their geographic division than what they are now. In all actuality, the NFL divisions should look like this:

    AFC East
    New England
    New York Jets
    Buffalo Bills
    Baltimore Ravens

    AFC South
    Miami Dolphins
    Jacksonville Jaguars
    Tennessee Titans
    Houston Texans

    AFC North
    Indianapolis Colts
    Pittsburgh Steelers
    Cleveland Browns
    Cincinnatti Bengals

    AFC West remains the same.

    NFC East
    New York Giants
    Philadelphia Eagles
    Washington Redskins
    Carolina Panthers

    NFC South
    Dallas Cowboys
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    New Orleans Saints
    Atlanta Falcons

    NFC North and West remain the same

    As much as I would hate Miami being in such a weak division, this realignment would really aid in teams having the ability for a greater road game fan base
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If realignment was being seriously considered, then I'd suggest they do something about the inherent disadvantage dome teams have in the NFL. Dome teams on average do measurably worse when they play outdoors than outdoor teams playing in domes.

    So I'd suggest moving Houston to the NFC South and the Bucs to the AFC South in your realignment. Not only does that decrease overall distance traveled, it puts 4 dome teams in the NFC South and none in the AFC South.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Total realignment should eliminate the AFC south;

    AFCN
    NE, NY, Buf, Pitt

    AFCE
    Miami, Balt, Jac, Tenn

    AFC Midwest
    Cin, Cle, Ind, KC

    AFCW
    Den, Hou, LA, LV

    Dal and Car switch in the NFC and you're done.

    I wouldn't want to see it though, I like all the divisions just the way they are, rivalries are worth way more than geographical convenience imo.
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Or we could just completely tear things to shreds and make it one league with eight divisions. Then you'd get-

    South- Dolphins, Bucs, Jags, Falcons
    Southeast- Titans, Panthers, Saints, Skins
    Northeast- Steelers, Bengals, Browns, Colts
    North- Pats, Giants, Bills, Eagles
    Midwest- Cowboys, Texans, Chiefs, Cards
    Southwest- Chargers, raiders, Rams, 49ers

    Well, then it all falls apart with the last two teams since my map skills suck, but you get the picture. The west ruins it since everything is so spread apart- it would be great for the other divisions though since home/away games would all be a long drive away.

    That also makes a much more exciting playoffs. With eight geographic divisions, we have the top two in each advance and play a Sweet 16 tourney.

    [​IMG]

    PS- Who knew Hawaii loves the Seahawks? That would be the fact of the day if it wasn't for one little snippet on that chart at the bottom- the NY Jets do not have a single county in the United States where the majority of fans root for them! Even ******* Jet fans hate the Jets!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  31. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    What's up with the random blue and green counties in FL?

    I LOVE that the Jets have zero counties that root for them!
     
  32. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Steeler nation is always interesting, back when the steel industry was at it's peak Pitt was a huge city, but then they started closing all the steel mills everyone had to move away, so you have Steeler pockets scattered around.

    Steelers are represented in Penn of course, which they mostly control, all of W Virginia, and odd amount of Ohio considering there are 2 teams in that state, peppering Kentucky, a bit in Virginia, a small bit in NC, more in SC and a bit on the panhandle of Fla.

    Steeler nation isn't just a slogan, it's a unique NFL situation.
     
  33. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    Somehow we have a county of primarily Cowboys fans and one that is primarily Eagles fans. I could be wrong about Cowboys and they are Colts instead hard to tell. Florida is the most screwed up state as we have three teams and evidently have counties that are primary fans for six teams. Based on this map of course.
     
  34. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    Yes. If you edge rush well any team can just hand it off and run up the middle, which then keeps the rush at bay. You also need to be able to take away the middle of the field for short passes (LB's) and deeper with Gronk when he is able to play. So you do need it all. Plus...they cheat, so f'em.
     

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