****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

According to Barry Jackson, Miami doesn't feel confident that they will have a shot at Kyrie. They feel like their best shot would be if Cleveland can't find something they like and has to circle back to them.

 

The Heat are great at flipping over rocks and finding diamonds. They've shown this.

They drafted Mario Chalmers, Justin Hamilton, and Josh Richardson from a low-percentage pool in the 2nd round. They have had/are having respectable NBA careers. EDIT: And apparently Patrick Beverley, which I'd forgotten. Also a 2nd round guy they "drafted" (you always have to use that term loosely since the NBA Draft is full of trades).

Summer League finds include: Briante Weber, Willie Reed, Ian Clark, Rodney McGruder, Okaro White, and Tyler Johnson.

They found and developed Hassan Whiteside in the D-League.

Jarnell Stokes is another one they acquired as an add-on into a trade, primed him up in the D-League, and he seems poised to do more although sadly not for the Heat.

They took on James Johnson and Dion Waiters as low-cost free agents (same sort of dice roll as, for example, Shawne Williams, Luke Babbitt, Wayne Ellington, Gerald Green, Greg Oden, etc) and turned them both into high value players.

I mean, they somehow managed to get solid minutes out of Henry Walker.

And for whatever this is worth they were picking 14th overall which is not exactly prime spot to find a great talent, and they've got a guy in Bam Adebayo who looks like a clone of Dwight Howard.

Out of all the players above with possible exception of Bam who was taken with a 14 overall, the only one that you can say came from these humble beginnings and is a legit max contract type of star is Hassan Whiteside. This makes sense. You can find good players. It's hard to just find a GREAT player lying around that nobody wants.

What I'm trying to say is that we should not hesitate to start trading off some of these success stories for a player that is a legitimate star like Kyrie Irving who is 25 years old.

There's no reason to believe the well is dry or that we've flipped over every rock there is to flip. We can re-load the roster with guys like Tyler Johnson, Justise Winslow, Josh Richardson, Wayne Ellington, etc. Even Goran Dragic, who is 31 years old now.

We can't easily re-load when LeBron James decides to go home, when Chris Bosh gets blood clots, or when Dwyane Wade's body starts to reach the end of his stardom. You gotta take those opportunities when they come.

The only reason to me this Kyrie Irving trade doesn't get done is bad blood (Arison and Gilbert). If that's not the impediment I would tend to think it would be, then Miami should be all over this.

 

Hell I think Miami may have the next one of those guys on their roster as a two-way player in Derrick Walton Jr.

 

Beverley was actually drafted by the Heat in the 2nd round after a draft night trade with the Lakers. Obviously that doesn't change the argument at all, and I think your point is an excellent one. You can go back even further and look at how they turned castoffs into solid contributors with guys like Mike James and Rafer Alston. And of course there's Udonis Haslem.

Like you say, Miami has a great track record of being able to find and develop these types of guys. But it's a star league and you only get so many cracks at guys like that. That's why you don't hesitate to make a hard play for Irving.

 

Kyrie unfollowed the King on instagram. Now its on.. (not really, but thats the big subject now on social media)

 

Barry Jackson fleshed out his reporting a bit.

He said that while some are reporting that Miami doesn't actually have interest in Kyrie Irving, he is not reporting that. He is reporting that Miami are not optimistic because they don't have the assets that Cleveland wants in return. They think Phoenix (Eric Bledsoe) or Minnesota (Andrew Wiggins) have the inside track. They also acknowledge that Gilbert may not want to give a rival like the Heat a player like Irving, period. The thing to keep in mind is that Kyrie doesn't have a no-trade clause, so his wishes on a destination don't necessarily have to be observed. If the market on Irving is cool then the Cavs may circle back to Miami on their offer.

 

Minnesota having Kyrie Irving, Jimmy Butler, and Karl Anthony-Towns would be...wow.

 

Minnesota becomes the paper second best team in the league with Kyrie. Pretty funny if Wiggins ends up back in CLE. Not sure Cleveland pulls the trigger on that trade though. Obviously that would NOT be a 1:1 trade and I'm not sure Cleveland would look at Wiggins as enough to both put them over the top and keep LBJ.

 

Andrew Wiggins back to cleveland? Yea sounds like a bad trade for cleveland. Not that andrew is a bad player just he isnt going to stick around long term. Hes leaving as soon as hes a free agent unless they offer him the motherload. Already not in the greatest terms with lebron for not choosing rich paul as his agent as a rookie.

 

This has been brought up by many, but I don't think that looks at the whole picture. If you're a team like the Suns, let's say. Would you give up premium assets for a player that doesn't want to be there, and can leave in two years? Now, it's possible that Kyrie would be receptive to teams not on his list of preferred destinations, but if you're paying a big return, you certainly would need Kyrie to be open to going there.

The market for trading stars has been set quite low with Cousins, Butler, and George. George was a different scenario as he only has a year left on his deal, but the other two didn't have to be traded and went for relatively little. Now, it's possible that this deal resets the market, but I think it's entirely possible that the Cavs don't get what they think they will.

 

Didn't stop the Jimmy Butler trade. Didn't stop the Paul George trade talks.

There's a wide gap between a player saying I have some preferences, and a player saying if you get me I'm a short-timer because I don't want to be with you.

Hope springs eternal. There was no reason to believe Paul George wanted to play for Miami, but we were all discussing acquiring him and hoping that he will be impressed with the Heat culture and all that. Every team thinks they're at worst the hot girl that just needs a makeover for everyone to realize how hot they are.

 

Dave Hyde has a story up about how LeBron once mocked Spoelstra from the bench during a game. LeBron is a great player but he's a bit of a cancer in the locker room.

 

I don't think Miami is out of this.

There could easily be bad blood between Andrew Wiggins and Cleveland/LeBron. After all, the Cavs traded the man for Kevin Love. Section tells me they lied to him to, or at least he felt lied to. Obviously LeBron is the one that engineered that trade so there would be immediate friction. If I were Cleveland I would be a little skeptical that Wiggins would secure a long term deal with me after all that. I'd need assurances, and Wiggins may not be willing to give them those assurances.

As for Phoenix, Section tells me Eric Bledsoe is a Rich Paul client so that goes FIRMLY in their favor from LeBron's standpoint. Then again LeBron may have made it semi-clear to Gilbert that he's a short-timer himself, and so Gilbert may not be willing to listen to LeBron. He certainly fired LeBron's favorite GM without hesitation. What we would need to happen here is for Kyrie to basically tell Phoenix that he's a short-timer if he goes there, that he doesn't want to be there.

 

The market is trying to adjust to the fact that so many big time players are looking for short contracts to increase their own flexibility and ability to choose. Two years of a star is about as good as it seems you can get nowadays..and that's what you're getting with Kyrie.

Bledsoe and Dragic to me seem like the guys the Cavs should be looking at for the short-term. I'm not really a fan of Phoenix's assets beyond Bled, but some people are big on those pieces so you never know.

I would be shocked if Cleveland took Wiggins back. It's too...weird. I doubt CLE considers Wiggins a 'blue chip' trade centerpiece. Minnesota wouldn't really be a spot for Kyrie to be a #1 guy either...but Jesus that team would be good. Second-best team in the West, imo, especially if they ditch Wiggins.

I would bet on Kyrie going to the Knicks, once this Melo-Houston thing hits a dead end.

 

I do think Kyrie Irving would LOVE to make that work, though...going to Minnesota.

With the prevalence of three-team trades in the NBA, that may solve the problems involved in a Wiggins deal. Cleveland wouldn't be getting Wiggins in a three-team deal. Wiggins would be safely off to a new team and Cleveland would be taking whatever that new team has to offer. If Gilbert knows that LeBron is leaving then he may piss LeBron off by accepting draft picks.

 

This is the craziest part of this, in a way. That whole dynamic is so effing bizarre; I kinda doubt they've even spoken.

 

Those aren't necessarily apples to apples comparisons, though. First of all, we don't know that either of those guys gave their teams a list of preferred destinations. We know George wanted to go to LA, but there were signs that he was open to playing on contending teams this coming season. And in both scenarios, the teams acquiring those players didn't give up a ton. The Cavs reportedly want quite a bit in return, and I'm not sure they'll get as much from a team that he doesn't want to play for. Again, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be receptive to teams not on his list. If he is, that changes things.

 

As for the T-Wolves trade, would you really want to move Wiggins for Kyrie if you were them? Wiggins averaged almost 24 pts per game last year and fits well with their other parts. The Wolves also just signed Jeff Teague. Obviously Teague isn't Kyrie, but he's a good player that they wouldn't be able to move until December. Trading Wiggins opens up a hole in their starting lineup. So yes, you're upgrading in talent, but I'm not sure it makes sense for your team.

 

Saw some highlights of Devin booker just now outting in work this summer... think we passed on a future superstar...

 

Big trade of the day: Allen Crabbe for Andrew Nicholson who Portland used the stretch provision on. Drops Portland to just over 4.4m over the cap I believe and saves them like 40m in luxury tax.

More importantly, if they are facilitating the Melo to Houston trade and absorbing Ryno then this will make the trade easier and one less awful contract the Knicks could potentially take back.

 

I saw this, and it made me think about whether they're still interested in Tyler Johnson as well. It doesn't look like Miami will trade him now, but maybe next offseason when his deal jumps up to $20M per.

On the Knicks front, isn't Portland trying to land Melo to keep for themselves. I read that Dame and McCullom were trying to reach out to him to convince him to waive the NTC to go to Portland. I'd actually love to see that happen. While it will still almost certainly be GSW in the end, OKC, Minny, Houston, and Portland would be fun challengers out west joining SA.

 

A lot of us liked him but I saw him as a doughy 3 point shooter, definitely didn't think he had potential to score 70 in a freaking game.

Hopefully we made up for it with Bam.

 

I'm excited to watch Minnesota. The last time they were in the playoffs I was in middle school. I loved those KG teams.

 

I saw him as a klay thompson type but i have a feeling he's going to be better.


Anyways with brandon knight's injury, what are the chances the suns trade away eric now unless they get kyrie himself?

 

He's got a long way to go on defense if he wants to get to Thompson's level.

 

That TMZ footage of Harden and CP3 scrimmaging today has me hyped. The rest of the league better hope we don't get Melo.

 

I tried to tell ya. Portland has no shot at Melo. They should be happy getting Anderson. He's no scrub.

 

Dame and CJ were trying to recruit Melo there but that was never destined to be imo. For one its across the continent from his son who is staying in NY with Lala i believe. But 2nd, he and CP3 are probably tighter then any other set of NBA friends. Remember, them playing together was supposed to happen 6 years ago in Ny but in classic NYK fashion they couldnt wait and signed Tyson instead. Ive even heard that he may not even want to go to Cleveland if Kyrie gets moved for him.

 

I don't know that I buy the kid in NY argument. It's a 3.5 hour flight to Houston. It's only a couple more hours to Portland. If that were a major issue, he'd stay on the east coast.

 

Yeah, the kid issue is overrated. He's a millionaire...he can fly the kid anywhere.

Why Houston?
- CP3. Best friend. Top 20 player. 10 assists per gm
- Harden. Top 10 player. 7 assists per gm as SG. 11 assists per game as PG.
- He'll still get a lot of shot opportunities. He averaged 42.6% on catch-&-shoot 3's last year (almost identical to Ryan Anderson).
- Familiarity with Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator.
- He'll play PF, so he will be a mismatch offensively and less perimeter defense.
- Winning franchise
- Big Market
- No state tax (that's why he is waiving the $8 mil trade kicker for only Houston)
- Top notch strip clubs
- Deep roster filled with defensive players to cover for him(Ariza, CP3, Capela, Tucker, Moute, Nene, Black, Williams)

 

Absolutely. It gives him a chance to play with one of his best friends and legitimately compete for a title. That's basically the best case scenario. I still think they lose to Golden State, but the fact that we can't be sure about that is such a far cry from where he's been basically his entire career. I completely understand why that would be his preferred choice. I think it just comes down to finding a deal that works for the Knicks. The Portland thing would only be if they can't get it done in Houston or Cleveland.

 

I like how you threw the stripper thing in there!

 

Brian Windbag took a cheap shot at Pat Riley today on ESPN. The segment is being passed around on Twitter.

 

If Kyrie gets dealt will Windbag finally have that heart attack we've all been betting he will have?

 

He looked like he was about to have one when the news broke.

 

Nah, but when LeBron leaves, he probably will. How will he survive with LeBron living on the opposite coast?

 

He's gonna follow Lebron.

Can you imagine the texts between these guys? I imagine for every Lebron reply there's like 20 messages from windbag, and he LOLs and s a lot at whatever Lebron says.

 

Windhorst on Sportscenter saying that the Cavs are fielding offers for Kyrie. He also says Kyrie could make this complicated for the Cavs by saying he won't re-sign with any team not on his list. He said if that happens, that Kyrie might not get traded until camp.

This is what I was talking about when people make the argument that he doesn't have a NTC, so he doesn't have to be traded to one of the teams on his list. He doesn't, in fact, have to be traded to a team not on his list. Another team could trade for him and try to convince him to stay. But I just don't see a team giving up a big haul for that kind of uncertainty.

 

Am I the only one who would move Dragic, Bam, and Winslow for Kyrie? We wouldn't actually lose any productivity from last season but gain on the offensive end. That should push us into the playoffs and with a good enough showing we could very well entice PG to sign here. Barring that, maybe swap out Bam for Ellington since the Cavs will need to replace Kyrie's shooting. They're a drive, dish, catch, and shoot team with LeBron on the floor and losing Kyrie would just make it more pronounced.

 

I'll take my guru badge btw for basically calling the fact that Melo for Kyrie was dead on arrival.