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Charles Harris is really stinking it up...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hitman8, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Nah man. NO SACKS!!! He can't possibly be playing well.
     
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  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Yeah, but "not being great" is a lot different than being "terrible".
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with everything you said- he's putting in the work and we all hope he's awesome. Most of his college highlights came from one elite move though and that worried a lot of people- will it translate to NFL game speed and NFL linemen? There is no way to know that and that's why I hated him being picked in the 1st....there were much "safer" picks.

    That definitely doesn't make him a bust though.
     
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  5. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    As usual you seem to misunderstand the point being made. I never said he is or would be a complete bust, my point since the day we drafted him until now is that he is a flawed player not worthy of our first round pick. And there is nothing he has done so far that could make me change my mind on that, in fact everything he's done has just reinforced my original opinion.

    I think he could turn out to be a decent pass rusher as he does have some athleticism, however again we had a lot better and safer options we could have opted for with that first rounder.

    I see harris being similar to Ja'wan James, a decent player who should have been drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round instead of the 1st.

    And I feel just like james harris will have a decent but unspectacular career.
     
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  6. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    The NFL Draft is an educated crapshoot. Also, I agree with all of those that said this thread is way the freak too early. We haven't won a preseason game this year does that mean we'll go 0-16? The Browns are 3-0 in preseason are they going to win the SB? Both of those make as much sense as basing Harris being a bust off of his PS work.
     
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  7. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    No, there is no misunderstanding on my part. Everyone here has read your whining from the day Harris was drafted.

    If all it takes is 3 preseason games to "reinforce an opinion" about a rookie then that opinion is stupid. Do you even realize that the Dolphins have 2 total sacks this preseason? 1 from Branch and 1 from Malveaux. You're basing your entire opinion of Harris off of his sack total and your (wrong) opinion that he has been horrible against the run.

    Let's put this another way. Experts, people who get paid to judge NFL players, have never said Harris will be a bust or be "decent". In fairness none have said that he'll be great, either. Know why? Because as I wrote earlier, no one knows yet. However, based upon the provable evidence and his skill set, the overwhelming majority had a 1st round grade on him. Now, maybe he will bust and maybe he'll be in the HoF someday but, the point is, your anger over the Dolphins not picking "your guy" means nothing. And frankly threads like this should be moved to the "rant" section because that's all it is...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  8. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    What does it read?
     
  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm just waiting, and hoping that Harris has a great year, and the OP comes back a year later and boasts how he loved the pick. Who was the other player he did that with recently this offseason? That thread was gold.
     
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  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    "I'm still hungry. Hungry for the sacks and it's going to pay off. I've got that drive now."

    Charles Harris is my dude.
     
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  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    What are you blabbering about? I hope he does prove me wrong and if thats the case I will be happy to say I was wrong.

    I have no problem eating crow if it means the dolphins are winning. I complain because I care about the team, not because I just like complaining.
     
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  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes he says all the right things, let's just hope he actually does it.
     
  13. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, you know what I'm talking about. It's wasn't about eating crow and being wrong, it was you flat out changing your story. I want to say it was Carroo. I think you said on draft day that you LOVED it, loved the trade up, he's going to be awesome. Then this year... said you hated that they drafted him, and he's not going to make the roster, he sucks and you'd have never drafted him. This wasn't about admitting you were wrong and eating crow, it was completely changing your story. I'm not going to bother to go find the thread though.

    As for Harris, man, give the dude some time to play. I don't disagree that your plan on draft day may have been a good alternative, but I don't agree that you think Harris completely sucks. It is what it is. We all went back and forth enough on him after the draft in that thread of yours, I just don't see the point in doing it now again after 3 preseason games.
     
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  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Now you are just making stuff up. I never liked the caroo pick from day one especially because we gave up so many picks for him. I have no idea what thread or player you are talking about.

    I agree it is still early, it is fair to say we need to give hime more time. However it is not looking good so far and I have a right to state my preliminary opinion.

    Preseason does show us quite a bit however in terms of what players can and can't do heck most of the roster cuts will be based on preseason performance.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That comment must be in reference to something outside football and which with I am not familiar.
     
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  16. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    It's a movie based upon when death comes for you there is no escaping it.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And people have the right to criticize that opinion.

    No reasonable person is making any judgements of Harris based on 3 pre-season games.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's alright to say you're disappointed in Charles Harris. It doesn't mean anything longer term.

    He's had the most snaps of anyone on the DL and he's produced one tackle. That's it. And in camp, all the reports of him being unblockable and having that wicked spin move in mini camp disappeared when the pads came on.

    You don't have to look far to find rookie peers of his that have stood out better.

    To me he's looked like he belongs in an NFL uniform and I don't say that lightly because there are always tons of guys out there that wear the uniform but don't look like they should have it on. But we'd all be lying if we said we weren't hoping for/expecting more than that.

    He's not a physical dynamo so it makes sense to me if he takes a bit of time, because he's going to have to be a technique guy.
     
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  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You can make reasonable judgments based on his performances so far i.e. he'll need more time IF he is ever going to develop.

    That being said it guarantees nothing and some of his peers have been quick to adjust.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde-blog/fl-sp-hyde5-five-surprises-20170829-story.html

    CK posted this in another thread. Here is a more nuanced, less hyperbolic take on Harris, similar to CK's post.

    =========

    1. Charles Harris. This isn’t a conclusion, of course. But one preseason tackle for the No. 1 pick? And not really making himself a topic of conversation in camp? Sure, you expected a learning curve in the pros for an undersized pass-rushing defensive end. You also expect some flash of talent that shows why he was taken with the 21st pick overall. He showed it in the summer sessions. He took a step back when the pads went on. Compare that to Philadelphia’s 14th overall pick, Derek Barnett, who is drawing raves for his work. Again, there are no conclusions out of this. Just observations. And it looks like Harris will have a redshirt year this season to get stronger and work on his game.
    =========
     
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  21. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I may be a little more harsh but this observation by CK actually supports my opinion which is that we should not have invested our first round pick on a flawed developmental player.

    Project players who need development should not be first round picks. 1st round picks are expected to come and produce as starters from day one. We should not now be resigning ourselves to giving him a redshirt season to see IF he will develop.

    We should have traded down and picked up some more and safer players who could start right away and didn't have such obvious flaws in their game.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    All first round picks past about #5 on average per draft are flawed developmental players. you don't know how flawed until they show up in camp and play in preseason.

    yes, you might be right on Harris, yet you and everyone on this board have been wrong on supposedly safer picks.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, EVERYONE hated the Carroo pick- he basically cost us a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th. People hate it even more because it leaked that we traded for someone else that was snatched right before we were up to bat- who knows if that's true or not. For a guy who almost never made it onto the field as a rookie, it was a bad pick.

    However, the Dolphins had very high hopes for him going into this season and they say that he's worked super hard off-season to learn the playbook and sharpen his routes even further. The guy plays like Landry so who knows, he may end up being a superstar down the road. It doesn't change the fact though that it was a bad pick regardless- we could have had two starting LB's and a starting guard for the price we paid. So that one is a pretty tough example to agree with.
     
  24. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gotta factor in cap hit too. DEs are one of the higher paid positional groups in the NFL. Better to obtain and develop them on a rookie contract then go the FA route.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thoughts on him and why I thought he would struggle predraft..

    No real plan when rushing the passer, went to the spin move well far too often..NFL tackles will eliminate that move if you don't set it up properly.

    Doesn't locate the ball very well.

    Ealsily fooled on misdirection.

    Basketball player all his life learning how to play the game..

    Incredible mindset though As we've seen first hand..

    Would of taken Cunningham then Tj watt before but it's real early.
     
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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I'm sure you can inform hitman of a few "technique" guys. ;)
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    LOL okay. So, using that rationale, no matter where on Earth he was located at that exact moment in time, no matter what he was doing, Forrest Lamp's ACL was going to tear? That is the only explanation for Dirty Landry's comment about it.
     
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  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well, I think one could make the case that JT was a technique guy. Trace Armstrong was for the most part a technique guy too.
     
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  29. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    It's still too early to say he is going to be bad, is it normal to feel worried sure but the kid is rookie he needs time.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    All logical points. I did not hate the Harris pick, but he was far from my 1st choice at that point in the draft. Not even considering positions other than DE, I'd have preferred Watt, Taco or McKinley at that pick, as well as some none DEs. I just figured it is fairly possible Chris Grier has a better eye for talent than I do. One thing Harris has that probably cannot be taught, is the quickest get off of any edge rusher in the draft.

    Have we seen him line up much, if at all, in a true 9 technique, where his get off could more effectively threaten the edge as a pass rusher? Seems like he has been aligned mostly as a 5 technique to me. Maybe a few times it could be said he was a 7 tech I suppose.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What happens with young pass rushers is that they get all caught up on just beating the man in front of them, and forget the rest..one step at a time..he's at the first step.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, we don't have enough data on Chris Grier so until his record has three years under it, then I don't trust anyone in the GM game..I'm pretty sure you know how I feel about the GM position in the NFL so excuse me if I don't think they know how to evaluate talent better than some
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    What is all the rest Harris must learn besides beating the man blocking him?
     
  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Some of you folks...I'm just rolling my eyes and shaking my head.

    Adam Gase comes in, takes a team that was 6-10 and during the off-season and preseason, everyone here was "telling" Gase what he should and shouldn't do. Well most of you DIDN'T get what you wanted and guess what? The Dolphins under Gase's first year at the helm went 10-6 and to the playoffs.

    No cometh year number two and the criticism continues. Guess what though? Gase is the head coach and not any of you but you know what, I'm willing to make a prediction. We could make it to the divisional playoff round...we could make it to the AFC Championship...hell we could make it all the way to the Super Bowl and some of you would STILL b1tch and complain.

    DeVante Parker was a first round draft pick in 2015 and guess what he did his first two years with the Dolphins? NOTHING and yet, everyone this year is on his jock strap now. Gee, I don't suppose Harris could get a LITTLE time to learn to swim the the Dolphins, could he?

    If Gase didn't think Harris was that great of a player, we wouldn't have drafted him, bottom line.
     
  35. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I was specifically taking about JT. The OP probably hated when he was drafted, too. If he's old enough to remember JT.
     
  36. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    FWIW:

     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Think JT...the awareness of what's going on while beating his man..just beating your man isn't enough, you must be aware of what's going on with the offense..in college I would watch him singularly focus on beating his man with a pre determined pass rush move, only to find himself lost in the play when he did..
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    WARNING: The above description applies to every single player in the draft, provided they are not a player that you personally liked.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    many "sure things" have failed.
     
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  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Well I am old enough to remember and I had no problem with picking him. Apparently you forgot that JT was a 3rd round pick, NOT a 1st rounder.

    3rd round is about what I think harris should have been picked given he is undersized, is very bad against the run and has pedestrian speed and not much power.

    Only reason he was considered a 1st rounder was because scouts fell in love with his great 1st step and the spin move while ignoring all his flaws.
     

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