Charles Harris is really stinking it up...

Exactly. It's not like he ran a 5.6 40. His pro day numbers were way better than his combine numbers.

 

Honestly the only "raw" factor I saw about Charles Harris coming out was that he could significantly detract from his own abilities when he's got more responsibility for reading the offense. Take a number, that's true of all the prospects out there pretty much.

Otherwise he used his hands, flowed from one move to the next and moved counter-rhythmically to a blocker's leverage maybe better than any other pass rusher in the draft.

And even though he wasn't anything to write home about as a speed athlete, he's got a really good jump off the line that is NOT dependent on snap-timing, and has good flexibility.

The big flaw was that ultimately he wasn't a great athlete. If you're comparing him to the likes of a Jordan Willis, it's not a great comparison because Willis is a bigger, stronger, faster, superior athlete. But Willis was often clueless about doing things that Charles Harris can do off instinct.

Charles Harris is going to have to learn blockers and their tendencies, and work off them. He won't purely overpower them and he won't beat them around the edge when they know he's coming around the edge.

But more importantly he's going to have to stop thinking about defensive responsibilities and start responding more instinctively. He's also got to start getting a clue about snap timing because the best veterans get a feel for that and exploit it.

 

Yeah I mean, gravity didn't apply differently in Missouri than it did in Indianapolis. He jumped 33.5 inches in Indianapolis and 37.5 inches in Missouri. He jumped 9'1" in Indianapolis and 9'10" in Missouri. So I think it's fair to look at the 4.82 in Indianapolis and say...hmmm....

 

Does he look faster on tape than his combine 40 time?

 

I think the raw factor comes from how he reads the play and how it unfolds in his mind..there's a rawness factor going on there imo..I.E. doesn't know how to dissect quite yet.

 

I believe that's what CK said in his first sentence. But he said ALL rookies have that same raw factor.

 

Don't care about their grades, but the pressure % numbers are good to see.

 

ED's? Heh? Now we are referring to them as edge defenders?

 

Pretty much. It's so they can grade 4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 OLBs on the same level. No idea whether or not they break them down into system.

 

Not in a straight line, on the hoof. Maybe a little faster. Maybe like a 4.70-4.75.

 

This must be fake news!

 

Yeah that is pretty cool to see, I'm one of the few pff fans out there I guess, so when I see things it makes me sit up pretty quick...very cool, now if it's true about what he's said recently, which is he wishes that someone would of come up to him and told him to stop thinking so much, and, he's now feeling much better because someone finally did, and it released a lot of pressure in his mind, and, he feels like his instincts are coming around, then those numbers might increase..

 

I watched him chase down a back from the backside def end position, then 20 yards down the field, and he was gaining ground, went for the swipe at the end as well, and just missed the ball..but he was hustling to the 10th degree.

 

I keep hearing this athletic thing when it comes to Harris, as in he's not that athletic..

I don't want to start a debate about it but I don't necessarily consider athletic measurables to be what determines athleticism..I think precise athletic coordinated movement is a better measure of true athleticism..this kid played basketball, and can move his body in ways that lots of NFL players cannot..the ability to play two different sports at a high level is a dead sign of great athleticism..

 

I think when you have great athleticism, and great determination, mindset, dedication to the body, and heart to go with it, then you expenonetially increase your chances of success.

 

Erectile Dysfunctioners.

 

I like PFF too DJ.
Unless someone takes the time to go through the same grading process, I do not see any logic behind fans saying they do not care for PFF's grades. Why not? Think they are wrong? Then prove them wrong or put a sock in it.

 

Is that a problem?

 

not a great night..my pedraft prediction was he's gonna struggle, then start pressing..

 

It's hard to prove them wrong when they aren't transparent with their methods.

 

You realize that he's a back-up too, right? Lol

And you failed to address most questions to you in this thread. Instead you repeat yourself and whine. Lol

 

Ok. What are the grading methods then? If you cannot see logic behind saying someone doesn't care for their grades, then by all means explain their grading process in detail.

What I'm looking for:

- Who is collecting the data and what is their level of experience/expertise?
- What are the details of the grading process? Who and how are they deciding the proper weights being applied to different stats and what is their justification for such?
- How do they know on a given play what a player's assignment is?
- How do they account for positives or deficiencies of surrounding players and play calling....and opponents?

If you don't know those things, then I'm not sure there's logic behind someone saying they accept those grades.

 

1) you must go thru rigorous football IQ tests, and then are graded by the higher ups.

2) the grading process is determined by how bad to how well the person did their job..pretty simple.

3) they don't know presnap, but post snap and rewind you know the play and can figure out the players responsibility for the most part.

4)they will account for surrounding players if it affected the player being spotlighted..if a lineman helps out another lineman to block someone the grade in the spotlighted player will be affected.

Show me a better individual grading system and I'll listen?

 

You haven't answered any questions I've asked.

You consider success, or so it seems, as a sack only. There's more to it than that.

Roughly 50% of 1st round picks don't start their first season so you're just wrong. That's a flip of the coin. And rookies who are thrown out there before they are ready and just because they are 1st round picks probably fail at a higher rate.

 

I cannot argue to much with your take, PFf has him getting good production from a pass rush perspective, I'm just seeing some things that are signs that it may get worse before it gets better...at least for this year..

 

We all wished that he had 100 sacks this preseason. It's unrealistic, but it's still a wish.

However, he's got the athletic ability to become a great DE. Will he? No one knows, but creating false narratives (not saying that you are) about a player because he's not your guy doesn't do anything. Deej, we all know who your guy was, but you're giving Harris a chance. All Dolphins' fan should be doing the same. I could understand if he looked totally lost and plain sucked during these preseason games, as the OP tried to suggest, but he didn't. He looked fine.

 

Like what exactly? We've had people on here tell us there is no such test.

How many times do we as a group argue over what was or wasn't a catchable ball? That one should be relatively easy yet it never really is.

Maybe kinda. But all the time pundits make a claim that so and so missed a block (for example) and then we hear form players or coaches, that no that wasn't his responsibility on that play.

But again they don't know that based on the play. What if it is way more difficult to catch a ball from QB X than QB Y, does that get factored into the evaluation of a catch? We don't know, but if it did, how are they determining how much each should be weighted?

Who cares about a grading system? All that matters is the raw stats and the film.

Stats aren't magical. They are also not concrete. They are but one of a few tools that are meant to work in conjunction with the other tools to provide a clearer (not absolute) picture.

 

Better individual grading system?

My eyes.

Charles Harris looks uncomfortable in his decision making as far as how to attack blockers. They're better than he's used to and he's got more responsibility than he's used to. So that's taking something that was perhaps his biggest strength in college, and nullifying it.

As a result he looks like a very AVERAGE rotational player at the position. Not bad, not good either. The physical abilities and potential are there. He needs to "figure it out".

Contrary to what I'm seeing some try and sell us, he had that figured out in college. And he was excellent in that regard. But like I said, new level of competition, new set of responsibilities, new techniques being taught.

He'd be further along if he were a physical marvel because those guys can bail themselves out.

When he "gets it", he has the physical ability to destroy blockers. His preseason tape stands up to scrutiny. He's creating pressure. Just at an average level, which on the free agent market would get him paid somewhere around perhaps $5-6 million a year.

 

Yes of course...Besides our own eyes, I was talking about an independent source that reports.

 

I can't tell you honestly that he looked fine Dano..but of course I'm going to give him his three years, all I'm doing is critiquing our first round picks work, and measuring our scouting ability by comparing him to players that we could of taken..that's why I do this, to keep an eye on our GM..

 

Not fine for a seasoned vet, but fine for a rookie. IMO

You said yourself that you like PFF and they have him right up there with the highest picked DE in their grading.

I think he looked fine this preseason and will only get better.

 

I do respect PFF..so I will check myself.

 

They don't just hire you, there is a stringent screening process, you have to do the work they ask, and be graded by their higher ups before you move on.

If you can't judge what is catchable then your not qualified and will be exploited in the process..not hard to judge what is catchable if you know what your looking at..

There is gray area in terms of individual responsibilities pre snap..but once again, even when you don't know the okay, the majority of time, in hindsight, you can discern whether one guy did his job and how well or how bad.

A grading system is better because it tells me how well the person executed..not just an empty number.

 

Not seeing it and IMO there is no way he's a $5-6 million player right now.

But perhaps you have some GIF's you'd like to share.

 

The judging of Tannehill, a raw rookie worth loads of potential, that has spawned years of arguments, is exactly what's happening with Harris. He was a first rounds pick BECAUSE of his potential.

Geez. Let him grow and develop.