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Cutler Vs Moore Next Week

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That's because gase doesn't open up the playbook until the second half after he makes halftime adjustments. He always starts out too conservative and predictable.
     
  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's what I'd be saying right now too. Clearly Moore felt slighted by not being given a shot when they went to Jay. So, keep him thinking he's got to compete. Let him keep playing with that fire he clearly had yesterday. If he plays well, you can't take him out, and can then at least say hey... we believe in Jay still, but we're going to stick with the hot hand.

    Also, if Moore stinks it up, or it doesn't go well, saying now that Jay is going to take over again when he's healthy makes it a natural progression back to Jay, not that you need to say that now.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    There's three people here who have followed Moore since his days in Carolina. He looked solid as a rookie and then took a series of head shots the following year...this was before there was a concussion protocol and they kept him on the field. Moore played horrible and was benched, which actually turned out to be a very good thing concussion-wise. He retook the starting job the following year and broke a bone on a hard hit. As you can see, he was the starter for three seasons and played great football whenever he didn't have multiple concussions at the same time. He was not a career backup as you conveniently say.

    Numbers-wise, Moore is a low 90's quarterback counting the concussion year, and just below a 100 QB rating without it (which is a top 10 QB, by the way...). He had the highest rating in 2015 and 2016 (in limited playing time) for a starting QB and his average this year (through less than 2 quarters) ranks him 6th. Name the last QB we've had on our roster who was that efficient- only Pennington and Marino fit the bill from the past 20 years. The same goes for win percentage, TD/INT ratios and most major stats....the ONLY REASON he hasn't been a starter these last five years is because of his likelihood of concussions...he's just not durable anymore.

    I've said many, many times here that Moore can't hold a candle to Tannehill in terms of overall talent. Yet Moore simply outperforms him and Cutler by a fairly wide margin. I really don't get why so many folks get mad over a few of us liking Matt Moore...it has nothing to do with RT or RT's abilities. We just love watching the guy play and lighting up the field. He's a fearless leader and it makes for very exciting football.

    One more thing- most of you may have very little respect for Moore, but our players have incredible levels of respect for him. So instead of throwing half-baked insults that aren't true to begin with, could you maybe root for our starting QB with us for a few weeks? I don't think that's too much to ask.
     
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  4. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    He is forced to because his run on first and second down every series gets us behind. Otherwise, they would still be running on first and second down.
     
  5. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Moore gave Carolina plenty to think about in the combined 10 games he started between 2008/2009 at the end of each year. He was also a player Jerry Jones regretted putting on the practice squad in Dallas since the Panthers stole him away. It wasn't until Delhomme retired that Moore was named the full time Carolina starter in 2010, but it came with a caveat draft pick named Jimmy Clausen. It's also important to consider the fact that John Fox was a dead man walking as their head coach.

    At any rate, Moore suffered a major concussion in the first game vs NYG and the team rushed him back for Week 2. His performance was crap and so began the QB carousel between he and Jimmy Clausen. I mean c'mon talk about not letting a guy get acclimated. By week 8 or 9 Moore then suffered a shoulder injury and that was it for him. New regime comes in and of course cleaned house then drafted the hottest name there was Cam Newton.

    I think durability more than concussion. That being said he was also the victim of the politics of new regimes. Let's be honest - Matt Moore's namesake doesn't sell tickets. To this day it still was deplorable how coach Guido brought him here in 2011 and didn't even let him compete with Henne - a guy who needed to be challenged immediately. Dolphins brass was feeling the pressure to draft a young talent when Philbin came aboard so they reached slightly to grab Tanny.

    Honestly, I couldn't care less what some of these fans think of Moore. Their judgement is horrible and the stale taste in their mouths from not getting Luck and the idea of Tanny having to be challenged will never go away. The guy has done nothing but be the consummate professional, his teammates love him, and he wins games.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    That athleticism and running ability may have negated some of the OLine issues as well. We have the skill players, we just need to work on the beef and better QB play (regardless of who is taking snaps). Additionally, if we think Gase is a QB whisperer, why not have him whisper the **** out of a guy who lead a team to the Super Bowl rather than ... Jay "Living Example of the Price is Right Fail Horn" Cutler?
     
  7. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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  8. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm so glad someone in the media finally set it straight. Tired of this guy not garnering respect from his coach and the contingency that still hates him for preventing our drafting of Luck or the fact that he was even given an opportunity to challenge Tannehill (which was a joke marred by bringing that bum Garrard aboard).

    It's clear to everyone with a set of eyeballs that the offense plays with a greater sense of urgency/energy when he's in there. Granted he has some limitations as a QB, but he's no ordinary backup. I do believe with some commitment to coaching him up, his career could've gone a different route. People wanna bash him because he didn't spend the latter half of his career jumping from team to team trying to compete for a starting spot but at some point the writings of the politics of the NFL are on the wall - especially after he saw Cam Newton drafted by Carolina and Tanny drafted by the Dolphins. Hell there were politics at play when he played behind that dipstick Chad Henne. Don't forget he has a wife and kids, so perhaps having to uproot them all the time wasn't in their best interests.

    Sometimes it's better to not chase the night. He found a niche/comfort with Miami and was willing to see what opportunities might come his way. What the f- is wrong that? Continues to amaze me how dismissive people are of what he does - as if all around the league the NFL is loaded with backups who can come in and play like that. It's unfortunate that Gase is going to continue to protect his boy Cutler before giving Moore the credit he deserves. Like Armando said - where was the "urgency" from all the starters when Cutler was brought here to stand in Tannehill's place? The answer is easy, but Gase's ego is too large and so is Cutler's check.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I am with you on that. I believe in Moore. I think we have about 3 of us on the board. People say he is a back up only, BUT he wins and produces and the team plays better for him when he is in then the other QB's.
     
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  10. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    How many assses does Moore have to kick for Gase to let him fight for us every week is the question.
     
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  11. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    GOOD NEWS: Both Cutler and Moore played well last week.
    BAD NEWS: Many Dolphins fans didn't know it.
     
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  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Statistically Cutler played fine, but visually the difference is beyond obvious.
     
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  13. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Moore wouldn't last a full season, same as Cutler at this point in his career.
    Gase has a month or longer before having to make the call on who the starter is.
    Even if he goes with Matt, anyone think he avoids injury through the rest of the season? I'm just happy we have both guys.
     
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  14. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    From what I am told, you are on the right track. His wife definitely did not want him playing a full season and I would imagine it goes back to the concussions he sustained in Carolina, so yes, you are definitely on the right track about why he did not bounce around looking hard for a starting gig. It was not a lack of competitiveness as some think. Also, he tried playing through his first concussion (back when you could) because they had just bought their first house. Maybe he was hoping to play his way into a better contract but that led to a pretty rough stretch of playing that many people point to as his defining body of work. I don't think they should not make that mistake.
     
  15. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    I really hope we can get up by a couple of scores and let Ajayi and maybe our other backs run the crap out of the ball. That's the best case because you don't want Moore dropping back and taking big hits IMO.
     
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  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Cutler is the starter when healthy.

    Unless Moore throws for 350 and 4 TD's on Thursday night there is no controversy.
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    350 and 4 TDs? I think you forgot that we're averaging less than 200 yards passing and 2 TD's per game.

    Cutlers 78.8 rating on the year just barely edges our Tannehill's rookie year- RT was far better every other season. Moore averaged a 105.6 last year across the four games. I think if we win with a score above 21 points, it's Moore's job to lose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    That 2010 Carolina season was an absolute disaster in every sense of the word - it wasn't on Matt Moore.

    All I know is look at the consistency when he's been our QB and there's 23 games total now (15 starts). I also saw this interesting stat elsewhere:

    Over the last decade the Dolphins scored 30 points or more only 28 times (25-3 record). The comes out to about 17.5% of the time.
    By comparison Matt Moore has 6 of those 30 point games in 16 starts. He also has another 2 of those 30 point games in relief.
    All 8 of his 30 point games have been Dolphin wins. Almost 50% of the time Moore leads offense to 30 or more.
    Wide margin compared to decade stats.
     
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  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's less about beating Cutler's production, and more about Moore producing so much that you can't justifiably take him out ala Brady/Bledsoe.

    If it's not dissimilar from Cutler, it will be Cutler starting. It would not be surprising if he and Gase have a handshake deal about that. Additionally, if Cutler gets benched for a 'Meh' Moore, I am not sure he comes back from that, whereas if you bench Moore, you know Moore will come back just the same a few games later if needed. Not a big Moore guy, but dude is always ready and willing.
     
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  20. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I get the feeling Gase would rather help Cutler save face than actual start the right guy. Not to mention Gase doesn't want to look foolish for handing out $10 million just to go back to Moore.

    Sad, but it's easily translated from his comments.
     
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  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Eh, the money thing is not a big deal I think. It's a one-year contract, if it doesn't work, you move on. We clearly needed to do SOMETHING after Tanny went down. Cutler was a logical choice if not the best imo.

    The bigger deal is Cutler's psyche and what Gase believes he can do longer term vs. Moore. You don't drag Cutler out of retirement for a backup job. Clearly Gase does not believe in the long term ability of Moore. Whether that be due to health or ability, I don't know, but Cutler was brought in to be the starter and he will be unless Moore just lights it up.

    If you let Moore roll with mediocre games though, Cutler is gonna ask himself "why am I even here" and then what?
     
  22. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    This is how I feel.

    I don’t think Matt will hold up physically. This Oline will subject him to many hits.

    I also wonder how his arm will fare the longer the season goes. He’s going to have to play in the wind and snow and that arm is kind of noodle-y.

    I’m glad we have both.
     
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  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Who cares what Cutler thinks. He's not a fixture of this franchise and mentally checked out a long time ago.
     
  24. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    But the injury allows Gase and Cutler to save face for Cutler by saying it is taking longer than expected, or he had a setback, at least for a little time. Still, I'd rather see Moore not have to play the rest of the season out. You'd have to think he would not make it with a healthy noggin. We're really in a "one game at a time" situation here for so many reasons.
     
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  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  26. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    If Cutler does come back in as the starter soon, and if that's despite Moore playing well, a possible benefit could be that Cutler gets to see how a different approach at QB can work for the offense, especially coming from a Dolphins veteran.

    A good Moore could result in a better Cutler.
     
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  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Cutler tried to get back into the game last week, despite the broken ribs...?

     
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  28. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    cutler should have never got the start from jump street comparing stats from 2016 - present here's how they compare, and I know everyone will say oh he got hurt oh he was on a bad team oh his mom didn't make his fav spaghetti for the games he played. Whatever you want to call it numbers matter no matter what, trusbinky is playing with the same team pretty much and having success here is the comparison.

    Cutler - 11 TD, 10 INT, 6.48 yards per attempt for a 78.5 passer rating in 11 games
    Moore - 10 TD, 4 INT 8.42 yards per attempt for a 105.5 passer rating in 5 games.

    based off that it doesn't even matter that Moore played 6 less games the td to int ratio wouldn't even be close to cutlers the only thing that may drop is the passer rating but would not drop 25 pts. it was easy from my eyes, gase was blind by the fact he and cutler play Parcheesi together or whatever it is, it was a bad move on gase part, I fully expect ajayi to have a monster game tonight for 2 reason. 1 - he's a beast and hes due. 2 - with Moore pushing the ball down the field he is going to get 1-2 yards extra from the LB's which will drastically make him rip off big runs.
     
  29. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    100% FIRE

    one thing you did forget to mention is the fact that Kaep will never play in this league again, by him suing the owners for collusion with no hard facts and even if he does have hard facts. Either way he will nvr play in the NFL for being a baby and calling mommy for no one wanting to play with him. The nfl owners now will never sign him for filing the lawsuit he once again sealed his own fate.

    If he wanted to play he should have lowered his expectations and signed a deal for 2 mill and stopped demanding so much money and he would have been on a roster. Look at what D. rose did in Cleveland he said he signed the 2 mill deal to "prove to himself and others" and said if he does that everyone is going to have to pay for his services again next year and this is the reining youngest MVP of all times (injuries aside). When people don't believe in you, you need to prove it which he is unwilling to do he just wants to walk in make 10-15 mill and start no tryouts just starts and make money. Does this dude forget he got benches countless times and was a 3rd string qb before he left the 9ers? that's not a 10-15 mill or a starter for the 9ers then who the heck would lol.
     
  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I just have a hard time buying that. Cutler's sole priority is to not leave the game on a stretcher after being begged out of retirement. You can see it in how he manages the pocket and rarely stepping into throws. IMO that's not going to change no matter what Moore shows the offense is capable of.

    I can't say I blame Cutler in that regard. He has no equity in the Miami Dolphins. But it prevents the offense from getting maximum effort out of him, which was an issue that has plagued his entire career.
     
  31. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Ugh. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n-he’s-not-signed-with-one-retweet/ar-BBC8dWk

    He also started their final game of the season, against the Rams, and threw for a pair of TDs.

    Gase does, otherwise Cutler wouldn't be here to begin with.

    If Gase had full confidence in Moore, you don't bring Cutler in to start with. For Gase and the front office, Cutler represents our best chance of winning long term over the course of the season. Unless Cutler has completely lost Gase, then yes, Gase will worry about it.
     
  32. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Garbage time for both teams for one and for 2, you can say whatever you want after the fact just like he came out and said he would stand for the anthem, you cant undo what's already been done, if you could im sure every qb in the league has hundreds of throws theyd like back that got picked. He wanted 10 mill from the jump and a starting position, so guess what you already eliminated possible teams with that. you can make all the excuses you want for him but he has and is still digging himself a hole not the nfl.
     
  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Which is the problem.

    If Moore shows out again and Gase comes out with some bullsh*t excuse that the offense played with more urgency because it was a the backup QB - then I know for a fact his EGO is more important than the team's success.
     
  34. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    There was a mention today that apparently Cutler tried to get back onto the field after receiving the injury.

    So if true, perhaps he isn't that passionless at all.

    The players themselves haven't been dismissive of him. They've actually been quite expressive about him being a solid QB.
     
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  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You are entirely basing this on supposition and unnamed sources. But sure, why wouldn't a starting QB (he started most of the year bro, with slightly below average rating) not want starting QB money? Ever since that blew up, he made it clear he would take backup jobs for backup money. Just read the language - all the "10 million!" talk is couched heavily with "reportedly, maybe, supposedly, likely" etc. It's because it was never actually confirmed. As for D-Rose, he had to take that deal because ever since his knee injuries (something Kaep never had) he has clearly not been the same. Plus, he's taking a lesser deal to play with the King for a title shot. He didn't take a **** contract on the Kings.

    Now here is a thought, why is it supposed that CK was asking for that much? Maybe because he was a starter who posted OK stats after being very good a few years prior. Not to drag up another locked thread, but Bill Barnwell did a study that showed, unequivocally, that every single player who posted a season remotely comparable to Kaep's season LAST YEAR (not lifetime, mind) was awarded with a contract by another team.

    Now, what makes Kaep different? Hint: it's not supposed, unconfirmed and directly refuted contract demands, it's not talent.

    Ill hopefully end it this way. If you don't like his actions, fine. I disagree but I get it. If that action makes you not want him as a starter or backup at any price? Fine! That's your right as a fan. Just call it that and move on and leave the garbage fake news and false arguments to the side. "I dislike his stance, and don't want him on my team regardless of any other factors." It's really the only thing people need to say.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing though- everyone keeps saying Moore can't last (and I've said it myself). But did Cutler last? He started playing timid in game 2 after a big hit, goes two weeks without scoring at all, then he gets KO'd in game six. And his arm? We just haven't seen the Cutler magic since he's not planting and trowing consistently.

    Moore has been throwing beautiful passes, working the pocket like a boss and getting the offense fired up. Maybe he does take a head shot and he's out for a few weeks...but why does that matter (other than being concerned for Moore himself)? He is the better QB, he's not playing scared and he's putting up points.

    You can only imagine that Cutler is going to be even more timid in the pocket while trying to protect the ribs. Every hit is going to hurt like mad for months and Cutler will know it. Where's the logic in not letting him fully heal while the better QB leads the offense? I just don't get it. If Moore does get hurt then you're in the exact same position as Cutler starting and playing below average ball.
     
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  37. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I really don't care what he does to tell you the truth, I don't agree with the medium he decided to do his protesting but its his right, all im saying is based off his mediocre career, and you want to peg a qb on 2 games I guess maybe we should call up matt Flynn and ask why no one paying him 10 mil and starting him he had 3 good games too.
    do you want to know why his asking for 10 mill and a starting role has been buried? because everyone wants it to seem like the nfl is blackballing him. so he comes out weeks later and tells Shannon sharp oh im not asking for 10 mill or starting after teams passed him up. Its just funny to me that everyone thinks he never asked this, I wonder how so many people have the number 10 as his asking price? open your eyes his actions and his mediocre last 2 years and asking price is the issue.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-9-10-million-per-year-and-a-chance-to-start/

    if you want here's sources!!!! and unnamed usually the unnamed sources are the accurate ones who give "your named" sources the info its easy to find the "oh hes not asking for that" after he comes out on main stream with Shannon sharp and says he's not asking for that after a few teams passed on him but be real, nfl teams know what he asked for. like i said he would have been in Seattle im pretty sure if he woulda taken 2 mill, hell he prolly would have been with a lot of teams. All im saying is he good enough to be in the NFL yes. But his asking price, his surrounding media frenzy and his asking top be a starter is too high and you have to believe that. But now that hes suing the nfl owners hell be lucky to get a comped ticket to a game.
     
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's like you don't even read. But sure, Super Bowl QB Matt Flynn is a great comparison, and yeah, unnamed sources are always to be trusted. Gotcha. I'm done.
     
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  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Hmm, I would question the decision to put in a cold Cutler over a hot Moore, but the ego thing ... the biggest ego boost would be winning, I have a hard time seeing him sacrifice winning just to bring in Cutler. But who knows, could be, coaches are weird animals bro! I guess we should just be happy he hasn't been caught doing lines. :knucks:
     
  40. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Matt Flynn won a super bowl? he started? please give me his stat line? oh wait he didn't even play. Last time I checked CK has an under 60% completion percentage for his career and he has under 89 qbr and matt Flynn is qbr of 85+ and a completion of 60%+ QBR but your right its not a good comparison.

    you do understand that unnamed sources give info to "sources" who bring it to the media right? you do understand that when Jay Glazer gives you the in/out info on Sundays those come from unnamed sources right? its better your done because your becoming with all do respect dumb. even your "named sources" are wrong you do realize this right? or do you believe everything the news and media tells you?
     

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