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RB and Whats Coming Down

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Walter, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Should be an interesting situation with the RB we see against the Raiders...I think it comes down to:

    1. A star or stars are Born

    2. New RB's opens new and favorable options

    3. New Backs open new and complicated options, give it another 5 games to get a read lol

    4. what the hell were we thinking

    5. Looking in the market for some help ....

    6. wow Gase isn't as clueless as thought

    7. Gase needs 3 promotions to be clueless...

    any opinions ? personally I think #3
     
    Irishman likes this.
  2. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I suspect it will be mixed reviews at best. I think the thing to remember is all of these back up running backs were here already. Nobody made Gase start Jay, he chose to start him cause either he thought Jay was the most talented, or he started Jay cause he felt some unexplained loyalty to Jay... I feel pretty safe its not the loyalty angle.

    I believe it will be option 5, but in our cap position I suspect that we won't start the looking till after the season.
     
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  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    #4. I believe Ajayi will do better in a committee with Blount against Denver than any of our RBs against the Raiders.
     
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  4. JIGGAJOE

    JIGGAJOE Active Member

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    2. I think he prefers these kind of backs, which is exactly why he tried to bring in cj Anderson last year before trying Foster. He likes guys that can catch out of the backfield. I do think Ajayi will be alright in Philly, better fit.
     
  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    yep everyone forgets about CJ. Ajayi kind of just fell into place and benefitted from a great line for about 6-7 games last year
     
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  6. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    I think that is will be a combination of 3, 4 and 5. But the key for any back to be successful is a good line which we don’t have.
     
  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Just hoping that after this weeks game with the Raiders we see that our staff & (HC) weren't adding on more problems and additional needs for upgrading, and again experience an organization painting themselves into a corner with few options such as what they've been doing with the OL, and the "to late" realization that it might have been smarter to maybe try to work out Ajayis problems in a professional way instead of giving up and releasing a player who has shown exceptional ability to break tackles and get yardage. Or maybe, I'm hesitant to ask, a little more focus on the FRIGGIN OFFENSIVE LINE !!!!!! Just to many question marks to not atleast begin to consider and wonder, Whos steering the ship.....

    Hate to be down on Gase and I'm just a novice but seeing the chaos and confusion and head scratching moves AND non moves is so overwhelming that it doesn't take a rocket scientist just an open mind not seeing things through a pair of aqua and orange sun glasses.... But truthfully one more screw up isn't going to make much difference for this team....

    Ajayi dominates with new team, would be tough to watch, though I'd be happy for him...

    Ajayi actually being effected by his knee, well I can say that would be a positive to add to Gases insight list. Though I hate to see that happen to Ajayi
     
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  8. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    can't get much worse than 3 yards per carry.
     
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  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    With all the guys I've seen he's had to elude 3-4 yds behind the LOS, 3+ yds. could be a lot worse...and I'm hoping not to see a worse level this weekend and then also be ignored....

    Wonder if we had ligit Starting material at OL if we'd still be seeing 3 ypc....and thats not an unfair observation...
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's going to be #1....just like it was when we traded Miller and everyone freaked out until they saw Ajayi run.

    Folks, the J-Train was not hitting holes, which means that ANYONE is going to gain a couple of yards here and there behind our offensive line. I'm not saying that Williams is going to be busting out with 50 yard bursts, but if we get that 2nd and 7 and then a 3rd and 4, the entire offense changes.

    Some folks are seeing this horrible offense with horrible players but I really don't think it's that complicated...we just need to execute the plays as designed.
     
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  11. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I see a different team. One that the holes you are talking about are more in play calling than on the line of scrimmage.
    They have not truly up graded this line in years, outside of picking up Albert. Blows my mind how year after year we see the same half azz approach each off season picking up potential quality BACKUPS and treat it like they are actual starting material.
    If the OL was up graded sufficiently we might be seeing a whole different level from our whole offense. Were the QB isn't under so much pressure, RB actually have time to take a handoff and even seeing slices of daylight at the line. WR having time to do more....Even our best lineman Pouncey is questionable and not on the same level he used to be. Top level Draft picked OL not what we all hoped...And offseason we search for the backups and get into the season and find Oh crap were screwed then lay it on the QB RB WR

    If this was just the first year of seeing this level of crap I'd understand but its been going on FOR DECADES and still people are condemning QB RB WR's without truly understanding that it all starts with the OL, you know In the Trenches ....
    I know some of you are tired of hearing me say this and at the same time for some reason don't really get it and put the blame on others (which I'm not saying doesn't deserve their level of responsibility) but you must realize until this organization fixes the OL, judging the rest of the offense has the potential of being extremely limited..... Christ I"M TIRED OF SAYING THIS for it has been years ....The right OL and a lot of what we had may work effectively with the right guidance...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm tired of you saying it too, because Adam Gase has not been our coach for decades. And your comments on the run game just aren't accurate either, the run blocking was excellent last season when we had most of our starting line on the field. It's like you ignore every fact about this season just to say everyone sucks, the organization sucks, etc.

    Four of our 5 OL are first round draft picks and the holes have been there. I'm sorry you don't understand football or that you can't look at your television to see Ajayi sprinting past a nice, big gap to try and kick the ball outside, but that doesn't mean it wasn't happening. The offensive line is not the problem.
     
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  13. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Heh at the o line is not the problem..Just because players are 1st round picks doesn't mean they will be any good in the NFL.I think it was last week or the week before there were 3 lineman blocking one guy.
     
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  14. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    Ya right......

    you aren't really comprehending what Ive said correctly, though we'd still totally disagree.

    Gase our coach for decades ...hmmm never said that...but true (said OL problems have been going on for decades), but I am also having second thoughts on his ability which to me we all should at least be considering.

    Believing that 1st rd picks are always automatic sufficient starters as in your implication possibly ... hasn't seem to be working in our case one could say a couple years into it...

    Been saying that its not fair to put all the blame on our QB RB WR and little recognition of our catastrophic OL, not said everyone sucks....thats you making stuff up as if I said it. Though I am not pleased with several NOT ALL on offense and a good OL might clearify and give us a better read on some of the other offense players.. Defense have had some nice upgrades....

    Well you have fun and enjoy the hell out of this outstanding team and its last year outstanding OL... I just can't do it any more..even when they win its ugly and that definitely includes last years team too. Wow last years decent OL at times and AJ looked pretty good.

    Listen if you care to have a discussion listen to what I say and don't put your own thoughts in there as if they were mine..Comprehend a little more and we can debate the issue ....or not....

    Hey we greatly disagree and thats OK but try to relax and not take it personal. We see things differently You think I'm wrong and I think your wrong and thats OK. But lets try to be clear as to what one is actually saying and not make things up as if I said it. Believe it or not but we all want to see the Dolphins successful again and as soon as possible...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It appears that you don't even know what you're saying...

    1) You said that you're tired of us not investing in linemen. I said we've grabbed 4 linemen in the first round (including Long) and traded for two more 1st rounders. Now you're saying getting 1st round linemen doesn't mean anything.....even though you're 100% contradicting yourself.

    2) You keep saying it's not fair to put all the blame on the QB, WR, and RB's....yet you're giving no basis for that. If Landry drops a pass that hits him in the hands, IT IS LANDRY'S FAULT. The same goes for any receiver and our team is top 5 in drops on the season. Should we blame the OL for Landry dropping the ball? I mean, come on...all you do is cry about the line and you're oblivious to anything else.

    Likewise, our team just traded our "best RB"- do you think they drew his name out of a hat? He's given up several sacks on 3rd down this season....you know, that thing you're saying is all the line's fault? He's also running past holes and ignoring Gase in the run game, which is why they sent him packing based off film study and honestly, common sense. Just because you don't do either of those things in before making a decision doesn't mean everyone has to "listen to you"......yet you keep making post after post saying the same drivel that's not based on what the coaches, the media and anyone really paying attention is telling us.

    3) I didn't say that this team or this OL was "outstanding", but it gets very old when people cry and complain 24/7 about how horrible we are when this team is clearly overachieving with missing pieces to our top skill positions on offense. You act like we should be able to score 50 a game no matter what and it's just ridiculous. We were the hottest team in the league last season until RT went down...and Moore was able to carry the torch for the last few games. Now we're 4-3, one game out of first place in the East and all you can seem to do is throw temper tantrums over how horrible we are.
     
  16. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we're still 4 and 3. This is a competitive league and if Gase is not pulling some sort of a personality conflict purge and still has the team on his side, his intensity and will to win could still get us somewhere, which I think went a long way last year. Big game tomorrow and we'll see how the team responds. Getting Parker back may help.
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The talk tomorrow night is going to be how "Drake and Williams look like superstars behind a highly motivated offensive line"....then we'll spend the week talking about coincidences about how holes suddenly appeared and the difference it makes when runners actually use them. The Raiders are a pretty good team and I don't know if we'll win, but I'm expecting around 80-120 yards on the ground with at least one or two huge gains. And as always, that's what opens up those shots to Stills, Parker and Grant.

    At the same time though, we have an older QB with two partially healed ribs that's going to be in pain throughout the game. That's the only part I'm worried about us overcoming- the rest of the team will show up.
     
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  18. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    Since you've been watching so closely, then you've seen him skip going into the hole, and bouncing outside 95% of the time too... there has been holes, he chooses not to take them.
     
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  19. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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  20. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Key
    Your interpretation of what I say is wrong and very misleading, you have this tendency to add your own judgement of what Im saying as if they were mine. Did you even read the post because your response is kinda off base in way to many areas of things that you think I said or think I believe. And Christ and I've even said it enough to where I'm tired of saying it and shouldn't be this miss interpretation at this point .
    Heres an example. You say I said 1st rd linemen doesn't mean anything. Not true could mean a lot and if correctly picked in which #1 pk. making odds much better for team feel it could do wonders. It also can do nothing and waste even more time with a bad pick taking years to realize IT WAS A BAD PICK and even more because it was a #1, happened to use with that dud DE we picked #4 OVERALL. ( and in our case judging the level of their play look to be a least questionable. but IMO still worth the shot and a valid legitimate gamble (ex. the few good years with Long))
    Heres another one that goes over your head, and the thing you say I give no bases, well heres the BASES. If the OL is not adequate it effects the play of the rest of the offense and can dramatically effected it to the point were getting the proper read on those players can be inaccurate due to insufficient OL play, which IMO makes it not so much unfair but worse in being able to make a legitimate evaluation of said players. I've also said qb,rb,wr,te need to take their own responsibility too. But MY POINT IS THAT IT HAS TO START WITH THE OL..........not that those other guys are off the hook just possibly handicapped by no blocking and also inadequate coaching and preparations Physically and game planning might also be in the scenario.

    Tell you what I"ll make you a deal your statement that "Tomorrow Drake and Williams look like superstars behind a highly motivated line" I'll bet is wrong and won't be viewed in that respects but actually seen as even more questionable and more head scratching on Monday.
    If you are right I will stay off the board for a week and if they are not talked about as superstars or the OL woke up as you say THEN, You stay off for a week....what do you say ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Here's the problem with that Walter- I've never seen you post anything positive on this board. Fire the coach. Fire the GM. Replace the line. Your complaints are endless. When we win, you complain. When we lose, you really complain a lot.

    I've posted reviews of every game this season recapping the good and the bad. Starting in week 2, I mentioned that Ajayi wasn't hitting the designated gaps. Four weeks later, Gase said the same thing, but all you can do is complain about the line. And I said to folks like you two, three and four weeks ago....don't watch Ajayi, watch the line and see where linemen are forming gaps...it's obvious that he's not listening to the coaching staff and doing whatever he feels like. Other teams see it as well and they're waiting for him on the edges.

    I understand your point...it has to start with the linemen...and there have been holes to run through all year. If you would watch the line you'd know that, but you're too busy complaining to actually pay attention. Even our head coach says it's not the line, so your solution is to fire the head coach.

    Again though, how can you be "an expert" on players that you're not even paying attention to? The vast majority of sacks this season have come from a blitzing LB that the RB failed to pick up....that RB was usually Ajayi (although Williams has been worse in that aspect...which is why Ajayi continued to start). You just ignore that though and say it's all Gase, all the line because it's the easy thing to assume. That's not what the film is showing though and it gets very tiring having these conversations daily.
     
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  22. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    What holes are you referring too? I haven’t seen any holes created by this offensinve line unless it was a defender blasting through.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The same holes Ajayi has ignored for six weeks and the same holes Drake/Williams will be running through tonight.

    Again though, have you been looking for holes....or have you watched where Ajayi went with the ball? Because those are two very different things. It's very easy to say "the line sucks" when you never actually look at the line. And if you look at run blocking stats, they're all based on how far the RB runs the ball.

    For instance, on the first snap last week when Ajayi cut back away from his blockers and danced for 21 yards....our line graded excellent even though they had nothing to do with the play. On the very next play, when they was about a two foot gap between left guard and tackle, the line graded horrible because Ajayi once again ignored the blocks and got tackled for a loss while cutting outside. Neither of these grades had anything to do with our OL though since Ajayi was doing his own thing.

    On paper, the line sucks. In reality, they're playing pretty good football and they need a RB who will runs the plays called by the coach.
     
  24. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    46 yard TD run for Ajayi! Guess he must have studied this week.
     
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  25. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Not difficult to see what AJ does when there are holes and a good to decent OL...
    But nooo it's all the QB and RB's fault lol

    Ajayi eagles debut, 1 half; 5 carries 69 yards Oh, wasn't there a Touchdown too...

    Kinda funny people telling me I'm not informed. I'm so far away from an expert and thats what so friggin frustrating cause even I get it...
    ITS JUST NOT THAT HARD TO SEE !

    And trying to clue some in here is just a waste of time....
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  26. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    It all starts up front. Our line is horrible, no one will be successful playing behind it. I just wish we got at least a 3rd round pick for him.
     
  27. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    His knees looked horrible. Gase Guru did a great job. Hahahaha

    I’m happy for Ajayi. I hope the Eagles get a SB and he is the MVP.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't you be taking a week off? Or didn't you notice that our team did much more tonight than Ajayi's 16 carries for 22 yards?
     
  29. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Ya right Key...

    Stick with this team, they will be real winners like you see them now, maybe even in our life time...

    1. take off the aqua and orange glasses...

    2. So the Drake and Williams play you consider superstar level.....figures

    Sorry Key need someone who actually can see whats playing out in order to make discussions with. You live in Dreamers Central. And have more fear of negativity than realization of the benefits of criticism if used properly....

    Where last nights game you probably saw all these Holes and our superstar RB running through them ....I think they had around 2-3 plays that they gained more than 3 yds running up the middle and mostly stop at the line after running into a solid silver and black wall, AGAIN...... and one was called back on a OL holding penalty and the other 9 yds plus another penalty but beneficial was on them for D- interference.

    Here learn something ..... The offensive line did much better in pass protection than we've seen in a long time ....and go figure Cutler had a very good game..... You know, Oh sorry mistake it hasn't sunk in yet and you still don't know, decent OL and more of a shot at decent QB play... Decent OL and also potential decent RB play ... another basic aspect Im sure going over your head....BUT THAT IS A POSITIVE, you say you never hear from me. Its OK I get your level and won't waste either of our time making sense.....RB was an improvement only in the passing out of the back field, Their ground game was nothing but average at best and good thing is they will not be that difficult to replace down the road because from your level of evaluation the market will be full of Superstars RB's in the off season, lol.......But Jay looked the best we've seen and the OL play in pass protection The HUGE reason why.......Key try to learn something....Have a good day :smile:
     
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  30. rackhound

    rackhound Well-Known Member

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    I hope he does well in Philly. I liked him as a player here, but I don't think there is a RB in the NFL, backup or starter who wouldn't have gotten a huge gain with no one anywhere near him like on that TD run.
     
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  31. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so but do you throw him away......thats the question IMO....
     
  32. rackhound

    rackhound Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't have, but I don't know what was going on in the locker room and behind closed doors......I would have liked to see them get a higher pick for him though.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the game showed us the need for versatility at the running back position in a big way..Jay did not offer that..

    one dimensional players..no thank you..

    jay looked very slow on that gift td in Philly..
     
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  34. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    called that one 77 for ajayi with a td beat our comitte!!!
     
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  35. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    slow or not he had 77 yards on 8 carries we had 80 between 2 rb, I would bet ajayi would have had a bigger game last night with his ability to run people over against raiders
     
  36. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Our RBs looked much better without Ajayi last night, TBH. It might not be solely because of Ajayi, but there's no denying it was probably the best offensive output coming from the RBs... and it just happened to be right when Ajayi isn't with us anymore.

    Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not... if this keeps up, though, I think we'll have a clear answer.
     
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  37. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Did you happen to notice how well our RB's did in the ground game....? All those holes they ran through picking up all those yards...lol. I think 2-3 plays over 3 yds and to often tackled in the backfield.(and a couple of the longer runs in which flags thrown, 1 holding offense, a 2 defense interference in our favor and that was on our longest run 9 or 11 yds.)
    Now Gase using the RB more in the passing game a ligitimate plus but don't try to tell us that the RB's were something special in the ground game...Now AJ in catching would be a ligit grip, if you want something to actually be true to grip about.

    OL pass protection was best its been in a long time and RB's success was on catching the ball out of the backfield and in-case it did Not click Cutler having his best outing of the year, Hmmm OL decent pass protection..Its not like the rb's burned a hole in the defense on their running skills. OL ground game still sucked with few holes opening and a silver and black wall at the line of scrimage....

    Ajayi was a huge option that I'm afraid your clear answer will be seen in the future with again the need to find another Ajayi to go along with a real and legitimate OL and not the usual cheap or injured backup crap we always have a craving to go after......
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Drake averaged 8 ypc last night. Williams looked great catching the ball. before Ajayi left he would have thrown a fit that he wasn't getting those carries and passes. Even though he can't catch for **** and he was averaging 3.5 ypc here...so...yeah.
     
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  39. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You guys do realize Ajayi had only three rushing yards less than our two RBs combined, 9.625 YPC, and a rushing TD (as opposed to 0) against a much tougher defense, right?

    Our RUNNING game hasn’t changed at all. It’s called a RUNNING back for a reason. No amount of cutesy BS Gase implements will change that, so stop pretending getting rid of Ajayi was a good idea.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing you're completely missing once again- nobody is saying our RBs looked special last night. They just did what they were told, hit the gaps and grinded out 80 yards....and that's with their two best runs called back (the hold on Landry for Drake's 30+ yard run was petty). Then you have Ajayi with zero freaking yards on his last 15 carries in Miami- two scrubs run for 80 while the stud Ajayi goes for zero. The math isn't too hard to figure out there.
     
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