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Thoughts on Raiders Dolphins Game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Drake had an 8 ypc average in his first start with the Dolphins. Ajayi had a 3.5 ypc average with the same team. I wonder how well Drake would do in Philly? I'd bet a million that he'd do very well.
     
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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Posting this without comment. (Other PFF ratings from last week in the PFF thread.)

     
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  3. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    drake wouldn't never get first team reps in philly, hes not a #1 there's a reason he was behind ajayi. so that's a bet that can never pan out. Just sayin
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but Ajayi was about to be Drake's backup if he would have stayed in Miami. That speaks volumes as well.

    Again, I don't think anyone here is trying to say Drake is the better player- that's clearly Ajayi. But the guy didn't want to hear what the team was selling and that always catches up with you.
     
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  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  6. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I was merely saying philly wasn't going to trade for drake no one is he will leave in free agency like darkwa and do good.
     
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  7. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Ajayi isn't the starter in Philly either.

    Drake- 4.9 ypc
    Ajayi- (As a Dolphins) 3.3 ypc
     
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  8. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    This may be true now but I have a feeling a couple years from now (or as early as the end of this season) we'll be saying "Ajayi who?" much like we said "Miller who?" a couple of years ago.
     
  9. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    you can only say that for certain because the guy has been there for less than a week lol
     
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Ajayi will still hold a Dolphins record though: most 200+ yard rushing games by a Dolphin with 3 such games. Next most is Ricky Williams with 2, and both Lamar Smith and Reggie Bush had 1.

    btw.. Dolphins are tied for 3rd among teams with most 200+ yard rushing games. In first place are the Bills with 10, then the Giants with 8, and then the Dolphins, Broncos, Rams and Vikings all with 7.

    So Ajayi is at least important for the record books.
     
  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Actually, I think Ajayi will be out of the league in a year or two. He's really gimpy right now and with the way he runs he won't be able to stay healthy. He doesn't even practice and he's in pain all the time.

    So, I think Ajayi will always be one of those "too bad he wasn't healthy enough to have a long career" players. In fact, if it wasn't for his knees I assume that Gase would have tried working with him a little longer to see if he could have a break through. However, Gase (and everyone else who's not biased) knew that right now would be the most they could get out of him (a 4th rounder) and traded him away.
     
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  12. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I can't totally remember the details on Howard, but Landry was holding. I thought he held twice but the second time he grabbed jersey and they always call that. Even if you only hold for a millisecond. I know Landry is aggressive and it helps him play better a lot of the time but he needs to realize the situation in that case. Yes it was just a bit, but once you grab jersey in the open you may as well just tackle your guy because it's over.
    But hey, at least I know I can disagree with you without having to worry about the grade school stuff.:knucks:
     
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  13. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    447 carries for 1924 yards is 4.3 ypc. Or are we hand picking stats from the most convenient part of a player's career again? A lot of that on this site, I find.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Landry held on that big run that came back....and on the big screen pass that came back. One was a clear hold, the other looked more like a block. There were so many flags though it's hard to keep up which was which.

    And yeah, we can disagree without arguing. That's always nice. =)
     
  15. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    And Drake only has 52 attempts over two seasons...
     
  16. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The Dolphins didn't trade Ajayi when he was rushing over 4 yards per carry. Hence the relevance of talking about his 3.3 ypc average. Also, Drake immediately came in, on the same team, and did better. Hence the reason for talking about his ypc.
     
  17. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    As you’ll see, this is really the same narrative of Cutler’s “great” game, if you break down what the Raiders were doing. The Raiders had a beat-up secondary. So, as opposed to what the Dolphins saw all year with Jay Ajayi, the Raiders played safeties deep. They didn’t bring up an extra safety for the running game. In fact, they told the entire secondary to play soft and keep everything in front of them. They gave up the easy, short passes.

    The Raiders essentially said we’ll give up some short-yardage plays to the Dolphins offense because we don’t think it can sustain long drives without a breakdown, a drive-busting penalty or a turnover.
     
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  18. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    “... yet you’re sucking his dick...”

    If you’re not banned for that, wow.

    Because he had 447 attempts with us and 260 of those earned him a Pro Bowl spot.
     
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  19. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    And 138 of those 447 earned him a trade. Deal with it.


    And the crying for me to be banned is funny.
     
  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Before Ajayi started last season I'm sure you would have said the same things about him.

    Look, I like Ajayi. I'm on record as saying I loved the pick when it happened. I hoped that his knees would hold up. I didn't know until recently his inability to be a team player. I didn't know that he said some things to his boss that you shouldn't say to your boss. After last seasons benching by Gase he tore up the league. I thought he had finally matured. He has not. Maybe this trade gave him a wake up call and he'll rush for 1500 yards in 8 games with the Eagles. I hope he does. I wish the best for the guy.

    However, he was of no help to this team THIS SEASON and it seems he was actually a detriment. The facts are, he WAS a great player for the Dolphins LAST year. This season? Not so much. And if it was only him not being able to catch, or not following the game plan, or whining about getting the ball he may still be here. I think once you add in what he said to his boss, his bad knees, AND his lack of production you really have no other choice but to get what you can for him.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah drakes 40 harder was all speed and talent..Ajayis was ALL oline..every bit of it...

    that was obvious..

    once again the biggest take away was our ability to execute the passing game to our rbs relative to when Ajayi was here...the difference and effectiveness was dramatic..

    so if you want some more running ability but without the passing threat from your back {ajayi posed 0} then you go with Ajayi...or you sacrifice some running ability for the offense to be multi dimensional..

    I think the poor line blocking is real, so I think it was easy to tell what choice this coach wanted to make..the malcontentness made it happen instead of keeping him as a role player..
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Coaching isn't magic.

    We are talking about grown men...alpha males making millions of dollars. You think a great coach can take any player and fix his problems on the field and off.....and that is just simply not true.

    The simple fact of the matter is that not all players can be reached and of the ones that can, not all of them will be reached the same way or by the same people. Humans are unique from each other after all.

    You are acting like not being able to reach AJ is a flaw in Gase and refuse to even consider it was a flaw in AJ. You are absolving AJ, based on nothing other than his ability to run with the football. That is weird, considering running with a football has nothing to do with a person's behavior or character.

    On the other hand, Gase has reached numerous players. He's publicly taken responsibility and shielded his players from scorn and blame NUMEROUS times. We know AJ has went off on coaches and been a diva.

    Based on the facts, (read: facts relevant to the decision to trade AJ) Gase, in this specific case with AJ, deserves the benefit of the doubt and AJ does not.

    Can new facts come to light that would change this? Yes, absolutely. But right now based on the facts we have, you're choosing to die on the wrong hill.
     
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  23. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. But, wait, why are we calling him AJ? Isn't it JA? Or just plain old Ajayi? :huh:
    Dis people call him AJ in his Boise days?
     
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  24. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the trade being a bad decision for the coach, however, I do give Gase some slack. He didn't come into a great situation, truth is this team has problems outside of the lack of talent issues. We have bad culture, bad identity, and uneven play when we finally get on the field. It feels like too many players have the attitude of "do just enough to get by, without getting called out". We see talent flash on so many different players, but somehow it never develops in to a consistently good player. Good teams don't have that issue, some teams even manage to get good production from initially bad looking investments. We are almost always the team that gets bad production from initially good looking investments. This issue has been around way before Gase got here, and honestly I think I have been seeing a change of late, that hopefully can build to something great in the future. We have seen some guys come in off the bench and preform. We have seen "next man up" attitude working. If it was just a talent issue, we could have this whole thing fixed in 1 off-season, but the culture... that just takes time.

    While I hate the Ajayi decision, if in the long run it is a factor that helps get this team turned around and playing hard football, I will be ok with it. It sucks for the short term though.
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Have you even watched our last dozen or so football games? We were 9-1 down the stretch last season and 4-4 after a disaster of a start this year from non-football factors....plus we lost our QB1 and QB2. Even without all the other stuff though, we're 13 and 5 since firing a few linemen last season.

    Nothing about that says, "Fire the coach!" because it's the best we've been in over a decade.
     
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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I have not seen one person say that none of the Dolphins' problems are on Gase.
     
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  27. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    So anything positive that happens would be in spite of him, and anything negative is a direct result of his involvement? I clearly see where you stand on Gase. No matter what he does, you will not be happy with him. This team potentially getting to the playoffs & more, in your eyes, would be a detriment. Lol.
     
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  28. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Walter why is always a lucky ride when they win? Can't it be they actually won those games?
     
  29. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    That's what we are all looking for(I hope). We got to the playoffs last year. I've already seen an improvement over the Philbin years. This unfortunately disastrous season is only half way over, and I believe a Philbin squad would have tanked. Give the man some time, he's already done what the previous guy couldn't, in his first year! Believe what you want, but I see no need to hit the reset button again(unless, contrary to your point, you are looking for more of the same of what we got from previous coaches).
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's obviously better if you see a team become consistently good like NE or Pittsburgh (Seattle seems to be following suit now), but most teams aren't consistent winners or losers (Cleveland and Buffalo are great examples on the other side).

    Most teams have a few years of great play, then some years of bad play, and maybe some average years in-between. Waiting for a team to be like NE is like waiting for the next Marino or Rodgers. Each decade you might have only a 1 in 10 chance of being such a team. So I don't see the point of setting the bar THAT high.

    Besides, a lot of SB winners weren't highly rated when they won. The Giants in 2007 beat an 18-0 NE team that was on track to be recognized as the best ever with an average offense and average defense in the regular season (ranked 14th and 17th by points respectively). In 2011 the Giants won with a 9-7 regular season record and the 25th ranked defense. And Denver won in 2015 when Manning was pretty bad.

    Point is.. making the playoffs is itself a measure of improvement, especially if it becomes a new trend. And you don't win the SB unless you make the playoffs. So sure the loss in Pittsburgh was bad. But you get enough chances like that and you'll see a SB run. No point in being TOO negative just because we're not the next NE!
     
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  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Then I don't think you've been paying much attention. Whether it was the in-game threads or afterwards many posters were openly criticizing Gase's play calling. That's not "Teflon" Gase.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So what's your blueprint for building a contender?

    Some coaches like John Madden (highest winning percentage with 75.9% among all coaches in NFL history who coached at least 10 years) NEVER had a losing season and started off 12-1-1 and never looked back. Don Shula was similar, having no losing seasons in his first 13 years coaching, and with 2 different teams including a 3-10-1 Dolphins team the year before he became coach.

    But then you have guys like Tom Landry (2nd most wins in NFL history behind Shula) whose first 5 seasons were all losing seasons, with his first one being a nearly perfect 0-11-1 lol. Or Bill Walsh, who started 2-14 and 6-10 before having a successful season. Or Bill Belichick, who started with 3 straight losing seasons with a Cleveland team that was only 1 year removed from reaching the AFC championship (Cleveland from 1985-1989 went to the playoffs 5 straight years, had one bad year, then 3 straight losing seasons under new coach Belichick).

    All those are great coaches. No obvious pattern. What it does say is that you have to be a bit patient sometimes.

    Also.. there are improvements under Gase. First of all we made the playoffs after 8 straight years with no playoffs. We also showed a never-die attitude in close games that we haven't seen in forever. Offensive ranking by points went from 27 to 17 in 2016 while defense stayed about the same. This year, we see an improved run defense. Offense this year regressed and is crap for some unknown reason (and I've been one of those saying Gase hasn't yet shown he knows how to fix it) though no question losing Tannehill had an effect.

    Point is.. it's not like we've seen no improvements. And it's not like there's some general template for successful coaches Gase isn't following. All I can say is you should be more patient before acting like Gase is a failure.
     
  33. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    Tony S. Made it to the playoffs his first year....
     
  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So did Sean Payton with a 10-6 record his first year, after which he had 7-9 and 8-8 seasons before building a Super Bowl champion his 4th year. Have to be careful judging Gase too early.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  35. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    Gase is more likely to finish 6-10 this year. Gase’s play calling ability will be the main issue that never leads us to being contenders. He is way too predictable and I’m not the only person who sees that. Gase is more predictable than a high school coach. 3rd and long...it’s going to be a draw. How did we get to 3rd and long....bubble screens. Dude’s going to roll out the J Thomas TE screens soon.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    excellent post..logical..
     
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  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The simple fact is that all this hate for Gase has come from three losses in four weeks.....the worst four week stretch of his entire head coaching career. You talk about people like Shula and Madden- did they ever lose 3 out of 4 when their starting QB was injured? I don't know the answer to that but most of us can safely guess what it would be. Of course they did....as has every coach at every level.

    I'm not saying that Gase is definitely the long-term answer to return us to the glory years, but I'm definitely not going to make that kind of decision based on four total games. And for fans to be suggesting that makes me question them more than the organization- have they not watched the last decade of Dolphins football? Or are they simply lumping everything since 2002 together and blaming it all on Gase? No matter how hard I try, I can't see the warped logic of firing a coach after he goes 4-4 with a backup QB.
     
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  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If you want to see a new coach that should be fired ... look at NYG.

    Gase is not even close to there right now. Give him the season to make adjustments, see how we end up. We are all disappointed because we had highish hopes, but this team was put in a bad spot right from the get-go with both the Tanny injury and then the hurricane stuff and no bye.

    Unless we finish at the bottom (Ive been saying 2-3) and/or the players start speaking out and it is clear he has lost the room? No, you don't fire.
     
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  39. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see were not all mad around here, patience brothers. A season and a half does not a coach make. Especially a newly minted one.




    Edit: this sounds soo stupid, he is 17-11 in a year and a half, why do I have to defend this?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  40. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There was never a year in John Madden's tenure where the backup started 4 games so he doesn't have such a stretch with 3 losses out of 4 games.

    Shula does, but you have to wait till 1980! So in Shula's first 16 years (6 in Baltimore and then 10 with the Dolphins) never did a backup QB start and lose 3 of 4 consecutive games. The first opportunity was in 1968 with Earl Morrall where he went 13-1 in the regular season then 2-1 in the playoffs, then in 1972 where Morrall went 9-0 in the regular season and 2-0 in the playoffs. In 1975, backups Strock and Morrall combined to go 3-1. In 1978 Don Strock went 5-2 and in 1979 he went 3-1.

    Finally, in 1980 Woodley went 1-3 in games 6-9 (Strock actually started that first loss). So while I obviously agree with your overall point, Madden and Shula aren't exactly the best comparisons haha!
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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