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State of The Franchise

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    i bet MM contradicts gase's ideas all the time and saying well what if this safety floats down shouldn't i do this? and cutler sits there on valium nodding his head.
     
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  2. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    A good HC in this case i will use Mike Zimmer as an example, you use the hot hand and who is the best chance to win games, hes sticking with Keenum and not Teddy Bridgewater because its working and you don't want to throw a wrench in the offense, gase on the other hand picks his guy based on his opinion not whats shown on the field.

    Gase = who cares cutlers my guy even if he has no hand hes still taking the snaps.
     
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    This is a very simple, and misleading way to look at this.

    Moore has been a back-up his entire career. I get it that some feel as if he got shafted here, but those same people claim he was shafted in Carolina, too. The NFL doesn't work that way. Moore's problem is that he's inconsistent, from all accounts he sucks in practice, and he's prone to injury. He does nothing great. For some reason, however, he does seem to get away with lobbing the ball up and having it turn into a 50 yard completion.

    Now, Cutler is known to be almost magical in practice, has been a starter for 10 years, and even though he has that occasional horrible throw (yes, more so it seems this season) he's pretty consistent. Coaches know what they have in Cutler. Coaches know what they have in Moore. And when you look at them both, objectively, Cutler gives a team the best chance to win the game.

    Saying all of this, I can't wait for Cutler to be gone.
     
  4. seekerone

    seekerone Member

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    It is unfortunate we don't see what the coaches see. Fans might get a jilted view of what's going on. Moore's pattern has been consistent from the very start of his career. 2 or 3 games lights out. Then 1 or 2 stinkers. But it seems the stinkers always have something about them that move away from his strengths (coaching decisions, playing behind a poor line, etc.). He gets benched seemingly prematurely. There is certainly something the fans aren't seeing. Many of his losses are tough to blame entirely on him, interceptions and all. Many starting QBs are throwing interceptions weekly. But an un-drafted free agent QB throws a couple, and well... To me, a lot of his losses you can go back and see he put in an excellent effort with a strong desire and take every chance to get a win. I have more memorable head-scratching interceptions thrown by Cutler logged in my brain than those of MM. There are a few MM losses that are clearly horrible, and the Baltimore game is no exception. But every starting QB has their fair share of stinkers. Some get crucified more readily than others, especially un-drafted free agent QBs. But we don't see the lack of talent the coaches see in practice. Funny tho, how that doesn't translate to game day.
     
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  5. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    you must not watch football only thing cutler has been consistent at is being a cancer and sucking, besides the one year of Gases genuineness at work!!! he has been what i would call garbage 85 rating and a 1.4 int to Td ratio!!!! in a starting roll, MM has an 83 rating as a backup now which one would you accept an 83 as a backup or an 85 as a starter in 12 years hes ranked in the top 15 only 4 times in yards and 3 times in rating. cutler has proven in the last game he does not give us the best chance to win games, im not saying Moore is going to lead us to the super bowl but at least if we start cutler we get a high draft pick because we will lose more than we win and i too cant wait for this season to end and cutler go somewhere else.
     
  6. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    wtf did i just read?
     
  7. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    here's a question what game was cutler absolutely great at this year that we won?

    On top of that which games have we won could Moore not have won? or which games do you think Moore would have lost we won?

    Remind you we only have 4 wins so you don't think Moore could have won 4 or more at this point through 10 games?

    Im not saying Moore should start anywhere but I don't see where Cutler is so great 3 picks in a half surely doesn't show me much!!! if that's good then im sure Moore is more than capable of doing that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  8. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    Much Better :up:
     
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  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of what happens I have more respect for Moore, the hits he's taken, the games he's stepped in for us, more than any other QB I've seen in a Dolphin uniform.
     
  10. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Both of em - Cutler and Moore, but also Fales and Doughty too. Clean out that position and restock it. Draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th and bring in some UDFAs. Get a Center and some RB's and TE's too.

    As for the Moore love, he's given us nothing that McCown or Fitzbeard hasn't given their teams and we lost to both.
     
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  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    He's taken nowhere near the hits and abuse Tannehill has over the years. Until the knee injury, Tannehill took an unbelievable amount of hits for years and he's never the coward that Jay Cutler is.
     
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  12. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I think Moore would have beat fitzy if he would have played the first half
     
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  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Of course he could have, the Bucs are a terrible team. And Cutler could have as well if he wasn't such a coward; hearing footsteps and seeing shadows.

    Best thing Cutler is doing for us is ensuring high draft picks in each round.
     
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  14. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    There are only 2 people on the entire planet that have watched Miami Dolphins football this year and believe Cutler is better than Moore at this point in their careers, you and the current Head Coach, whose belief is solely ego driven.

    Cutler does nothing better than Moore, not one thing. He's more injury prone, his footwork is terrible, his vision is terrible, his arm strength is gone, he has the pocket presence of Helen Keller, he's scared in the pocket, he has the charisma of a lamp, he doesn't know the offense, and he does not inspire his teammates one bit. The next time Jay Cutler looks like he belongs in an NFL huddle will be the first time.

    He got hand picked by the head coach who has too much ego to admit he made a terrible investment so he must continue to play him.
     
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  15. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    That's not what Dan said... He said Moore's own inconsistencies and medical history are why he's been a career backup. And no one is disputing how bad Cutler has been.

    Gase brought Cutler in as he felt he was the best option at the time. He rolled the dice and lost. That wasn't ego, it was trying to make chicken salad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  16. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Gase's treatment and acknowledgement of Moore has been highly suspect and yet ironically his defense of Cutler is unfettered. One guy has been the consummate professional for this organization and the other is a washed up turd with no equity in this franchise. To watch Gase demonstrably reject any notion of Moore starting outside of an injury situation is insulting. I'm not suggesting they'd take the NFL by storm, but the product this year would have been far more competitive. Gase's ego will have no part of it.

    Like you, I saw a look on Moore's face that had never been there before. I still don't understand the game Gase called at Baltimore and it makes me wonder how overwhelmed Moore was in lieu of various factors you already pointed out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  17. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Wildly, he STILL thinks Cutler is the best option. We knew after 3-4 weeks Cutler wasn't going to stand tall in the pocket and deliver throws. So why the insistence on this guy who's not playing to validate the doubters of his NFL career and merely out there as a favor while trying not to leave on a stretcher?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  18. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    He said due to all those factors coaches know who they each are, and Cutler objectively gives a team the best chance to win the game.

    And based on having eyeballs and stuff, that’s objectively false.
     
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  19. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The Cutler vs Moore debate is such a sad debate and makes it more evident that we are currently in the titanic looking for an iceberg.

    Im not sure which debate is more sad, this one or Fiedler vs Brian Griese vs Aj Feeley..
     
  20. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    That's what I've been trying to say as well, but I LOVE the Fiedler/Griese comparison lol, though I would say this is even sadder. At this point, who gives a damn, neither Cutler nor Moore are doing anything special. Try out Fales and Doughty, see if we find some hidden gold. In the likely event we don't, drafting time.
     
  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Re-read my post...comprehend it this time...and then edit your response. Because nowhere did I write what you're claiming I wrote.
     
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  22. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I'm hoping it's because he secretly hates Cutler and wants to see him fail miserably while raising our draft stock. :shifty:

    Or it could be that he has zero faith in Moore as a starter and thinks Cutler gives him more than a 50/50 chance of winning games.

    Who knows? I just want them gone next year and some new QBs on the roster with some upside.
     
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  23. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I think its pretty much his ego, like when you order a drink or dinner plate you have never had and while it tastes horrible you sit idly by and tell people how good it tastes until it is gone.

    Gase has in his mind that he is this incredible guy he had in Chicago which is strictly false I knew what cutler was when he signed him I knew what we were getting. Maybe Gase owed cutler money so he signed him for 10 mill to make up for it.

    Is there anything in Cutlers contract that states he has to take "X" amount of snaps to get a bonus or what not? worth looking into I think. That's why he is so adamant about starting him.
     
  24. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Looking at cutlers contract, he has a base of 5 mill with 5 mill bonus and 3 mill in incentives. So im trying to locate what the bonus requirements are for and what the 3 mill incentive bonus terms are.

    ANYONE HELP?
     
  25. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    "Cutler gives a team the best chance to win." Can you explain that to me using things from this year?

    That is what you wrote, that is what I responded to.
     
  26. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    "Gase has in his mind that he is this incredible guy he had in Chicago" ... that's just pure speculation on your part. I've never seen him give Cutler that sort of endorsement.

    If ANYTHING, Gase knew the season was fkd when we lost Tannehill in camp and he knew that Cutler gave him a better shot at a winning season than Moore or the other JAGs on the team.

    He may also think, like many of us do, that Moore is a guy better off the bench than an actual starter.

    Again, IMO, Gase rolled the dice on Cutler hoping for the best and it failed.

    You're welcome to think that Moore is going to play better as the starter, but his record and stats don't support that over the long haul.

    Best thing moving forward would be to dump everyone but Tannehill and restock the position. That said, if we got a really good trade offer for Tannehill so we could draft a kid, or two in 2018, then I'd be all for it.
     
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  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Contract Notes:
    • 2017 Roster Bonus: $5M (paid 8/9/17)
    • 75% playing time + playoff birth: $1M
    • 75% playing time + playoff win: $1M
    • 75% playing time + Top 10 in total TDs: $1M
     
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  28. SlyFoxxx

    SlyFoxxx Sorry for Party Rocking

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    It's a no brainer Cutler leaves and laughs his way to retirement the minute the clock hits 0. Moore is also gone. We'll have a completely new QB room next year which may impact Tannehill more than returning from injury. Him and Moore are close and he leaned on him often but there is no way Moore can return after what Gase has done this year.
     
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  29. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    well seeing how Gase and Miami where the only team asking Cutler to come out of retirement to play, I would say my speculation are leaning more to the correct side than the false side. Action speak louder than words IMO.

    Did you think at any point cutler was going to win a lot of games for us? Do you think Moore would have won the same amount of games or less? mind you have 4 games in W column.
     
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  30. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    It's not just the QB. If Moore was the starter from day one I doubt we have more than 4-5 wins. This team just stinks...
     
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  31. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    So is he still hoping for a playoff birth and having that 75% playing time bonus for him, you think?

    once we are mathematically out does he finally bench cutler? doubt it but that's Interesting.

    Thanks
     
  32. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, im merely just asking if moore would have lost or won more games, I just think we would be about right where we are right now in the same leaky boat.
     
  33. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Cutler probably goes home every night like I cant believe they fell for it hahahah
     
  34. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Been a lifelong diehard fan for 40+ years. I joined here in 2008 and gave up posting because every year its the same thing. I respect all here but the homerism is just way to much and sad to see. Most are so much diehard ( not a bad thing) that objective discussions are impossible. Example every year the playoffs are talked about and most recently everyone was high on Gace. I was one Of the only ones on here who said wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. what is this guy bring to the table. He has never been a head coach, etc. Was ridiculed and made fun of . Some questioned my knowledge of football but here we are again and I was once again correct . I have said from day one posting here there is no trophy for 2nd place never has been, never will be. Most talk about the playoffs this that and the other, this team cant even get by the New England Patriots. Play offs are great but until you beat the patriots who have won 15 out of the last 17 years division title this team isnt going anywhere. So I have defected and I've been following the New England Patriots the last 3 or 4 yrs. At least playoff conversations actually have meaning. I wish you all well . Good luck with the mediocre train wreck known as the Miami Dolphins. Thought I'd never say that. But, after 40 + yrs of **** I'm over it.
    New England 41
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  35. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Wait...so now you're a Patriots fan?
     
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  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    So what? Again the season was toast when Tannehill went down and we didn't have anyone ready to step in. That's on the FO and Gase. They watched Tannehill get his knee caved in last year and didn't do jack shat to augment the position in the event of another injury. Tannehill went down and they were caught with their pants down.

    Cutler was the best option at the time to give us a shot at a winning season. It failed. End of story. And if you think Moore would have a better record after 10 games, then you're welcome to it.

    And never say never. With this team, I won't be surprised to see either Moore or Cutler either on back next season as the backup. Flip a coin.
     
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  37. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Not true. Cutler had several other offers. He only came out of retirement for Gase, the money, and the fact that we were a playoff team last season without a starting QB in the playoffs. It was a gamble on both parties part.

    I've never liked Cutler, ever. I did hope for the best while expecting nothing more than what we've gotten from him. Same with Moore. Seen him as a starter and he's not taking us anywhere. He's better off the bench.

    Draft some guys.
     
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  38. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Several? please share!!!
     
  39. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    yes I blame the FO and RT for not having the surgery last year when he would have been ready for this year.
     
  40. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I know the 49ers and Jets talked to him. I'm not sure if any offers were made.
     
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