1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Paradigm Shift

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    Since the downfall of this season started, we have debated back and forth between coaches and personnel and front office. I think the downfall of the NFL is not the flag issue. It is the inability for teams to evaluate qb's and it is what injuries have done to qb's, and the teams' lack of ability to stay at a high level. Look at Green Bay. They have been called the Cleveland Browns without Rodgers. That means like Miami, hey have holes on top of holes, but Rodgers hides it. However, when Brady was suspended last year, their depth at qb kept them in the season.

    Miami has to somehow defeat the inability of teams that cannot evaluate qb's and take advantage of the fact that there are aging qb's on teams that probably won't draft one soon, but could. There are a ton of teams that need a qb: NYJ, Miami, Buffalo, Cincy, Cleveland,Jax, Indy, Denver, NYG, Washington, Az, and SF. As for Washington and SF, I believe their qb's could move on. As for teams that won't need a qb, but could draft one:NE, Pitt, Chargers, Saints. This is about half the NFL.

    The problem is a little bigger. I think Miami needs not one 1, but 2 qb's. I think if they are lucky enough to find a qb, who can hide the deficiences on this team, it would be logical to get another one, to keep the potential train from chugging. Again, look at the Packers. Look, I don't think the solution is looking at every position here on the Phins and figuring out the algebra needed to know if they should be a free agent, a rookie, or drafted. The truth is, teams with elite qb's do a banged up job at hiding how bad their personnel is. We here in Miami want all the holes filled and the qb, which is going to be impossible.

    So how is this done? I asked yesterday if the problem was scouting. Seems coaches and players and front office personnel has changed a ton, but maybe we are not scouting well, and also promoting these poor scouts to GM, like Grier and Ireland. Miami needs to know and understand what Houston, Phily and LA saw in Goff, Watson and Wentz. I would love to know if these teams built their offenses in somehow a similar way to how those qb's succeeded in college. They also need to understand mistakes made by recent picks by Jax with Bortles, Denver with their mess, and Cleveland.

    The problem gets more complicated. Brady and Bellichick's marriage has been a system related, same philosophical, flexible situation. We could draft a qb this year or sign a FA, however, if Gase and the front office gets fired, then what? I don't know if Ross is aware of the internal issues we have at finding talent. If the front office has scouts that can't scout, then the same front office will have flawed info to make key personnel decisions.

    Sorry for the early morning rant
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Every single team has issues long term when their main QB goes down. Apart from a few exceptions like Romo and Prescott (where a team finds their next franchise QB) all back up QBs play worse than the guys they replace. They can keep it up for maybe three games but much longer and the talent gap becomes evident.

    The Patriots benefit from having a well built system that produces performances that get the most out of all their players, maximising talent by all players contributing and working more as a machine. Thus they can rely less on constant great performances.

    There is simply no way to get around losing your starting QB for a whole season.

    As for not being able to draft talent, I don't buy it. I've never been a defender of Tannenbaum, I didn't like it when he was brought it. However, this team has, at worst, had a mixed bag during his tenure, including benefitting from a number of moves he has made and picks used since he started. I don't know if he's directly responsible for all of it, or where the division of labor is in the decision making process of the FO. The Dolphins have seen quality contributions from Kenny Stills, Ndamukong Suh, Jay Ajayi, Davon Godchaux, Cordrea Tankersly and others.

    There have been some poor picks too, some of the contracts haven't seemed optimal and we've lost some players I would have liked to see retained. So I don't see Tanennbaum as the best FO leader but he's not the worst either. In terms of talent evaluation I think this front office is actually alright. It's more the cap management that is an issue.

    In the end, what's needed is balance. The coaching needs to establish a system that works and a culture that the players buy into. The position/team coaches need to be invested in/retained to ensure that talent is developed and maximised. All of that makes the FO's job easier, but the FO then needs to ensure the cap is well managed and that pieces can be rotated and out and that star players be acquired or retained in accordance with what is working.

    It's a recipe that has a lot of ingredients and it's why so many bland products are out there and so few teams end up producing something exceptional.
     
    Irishman and Fin D like this.
  3. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

    941
    556
    93
    Jul 26, 2016
    If we didn't suck zebra taint at fixing the O-line which we've been working on since the '04 draft we'd probably be a little better off. Face it, with the number of times T-hill has been sacked in his five year career, he should be a vegetable. Whatever other QB we bring in is going to suck until the O Line is fixed. Here comes a bunch of people to tell me how it's improved if we slice it and dice it and hold up this year's O-line to a gas fed piranha fart while looking at it through Taylor Swift's right nipple's shadow during Burning Man on the eve of a harvest moon. I feel if we need to look at it that hard that there is marginal improvement at the very very best.

    We need to fix the Oline AND draft a QB this draft. Get Barkley, Rosen or Jackson. Spend the money for Leveon Bell and throw everything else at the O-line. Oh and while we're at it, re-structure Suh's ludicrous contract or send him packing. Oh,Wake needs to retire too because he's old.
     
  4. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    You arent getting me. The quickest way to build a consistent winner is through the franchise qb. I personally am sick of having to solve every single weakness on the team and throwing money behind it. And worrying about depth. Get a talent guy here, get a qb, and be like NE, turnover your roster when the players are up for a big deal, but pay the qb
     
  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    The thing about Tannehill is he cant disguise the weaknesses. You still need the perfect line. We need a qb that will eliminate the need to have a star in every position and be a better team that manages money
     
  6. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

    941
    556
    93
    Jul 26, 2016
    Yes. I was not advocating for keeping Tannehill. We're five years into that project. We've seen what he's got. We did that. Let him stay and compete for Moore's job.
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    He doesn't need a perfect line. He needs an average one or the permission to audible and for the offense to not be one dimensional...like virtually every QB.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  8. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

    573
    532
    93
    Oct 16, 2017
    High Point, NC
    I disagree!

    A simple review of last year with Tannehill and this year without Tannehill shows that the teams performance is worse without him; even though:
    • The offensive line has improved in personnel and pass protection this year.
    • The defense has improved in personnel and a portion of the run defense this year.
    There is more at play here than just RT as QB, but the fact is his play did cover up for a lot of weaknesses of the offense. Not the other way around as you postulated.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    1. You can't just pick a QB and know he will be elite - otherwise everyone would do it and quality QB's would always go in the first round.

    2. 'Being like NE' isn't just a matter of having a quality QB, paying him and ditching high contracts. It's actually more like what I described. They have coaching, an established culture and system, committed and talented coordinators and supporting coaches and then balanced cap management made easier by the successful system.

    The Dolphins should always be looking for new qb's, they should draft one every year. However, the road to persistent success is one of widespread balance and growth with a few elite sprinkles, especially at QB.

    It sucks that the Dolphins have been through all this struggle but the fact that they is our reality means this isn't going to be solved quickly. Additionally, the fact we had coaching scandal this year shows they there was an underlying rot that needed taking care of. You can be mediocre or bad this long or have this many HC changes and then see greatness appear.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Tannehill had both of those things last season.....you know, around the time we went 9 and 1? There's no reason to argue this with others when they don't even know what's going on or why their team is struggling.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  11. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    and what happened with him against Baltimore? Listen, he did play well last year. But I want longevity and success every year for the next 10 years. It is possible. There are qb's that have that. And when they are found, there is no on the job training. They have the IT factor from the jump. Miami should have been scoring for this position since last year after RT got hurt.
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Please name those quarterbacks for us Dirty....QB's who have the IT FACTOR and never lose to a main rival. There's not a QB in the league, NFL or college, that meets that criteria 100% of the time. That's why it's ridiculous for you to ask "but what about Baltimore" during a 9-1 stretch.
     
    Fin D likes this.

Share This Page