1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

8.5 yards a catch

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    So Jarvis is averaging 8.5 yards a catch. I was told this is a career low. However, should Landry be responsible for this? After all, he is targeted 130 times, or 3rd in the NFL. Is Landry a byproduct of an offense that was struggling, with pressure and running, and was forced to catch balls for short yardage? What's cool is having 8 TD's is 3rd best in a crowded group. Finally, the game MN, he had 2 TD's, 8 for 8 for 46 yards. But he helped Miami solve red zone issues. Should he be punished for this?
     
  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,360
    20,983
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    8.5 y/r isn't that much off his career 10 y/r. I don't think he's being punished. However, I think a lot of people wish that he could get open further down the field more often.
     
    cuchulainn, Phins_to_Win and Fin D like this.
  3. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    I meant for a new deal
     
  4. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

    382
    507
    93
    Nov 16, 2013
    I don't think he is the first guy they look at to go deep, but he is the first guy they look at when they are looking for the quick short yardage. I think its all a product of his role in this offense. I wouldn't worry about it. Now, if his numbers of catches start going down... then I would start to be concerned.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  5. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,360
    20,983
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    He'll get his deal as long as he's not trying to get paid like a top 3 WR in the league.
     
    Rickysabeast and LI phinfan like this.
  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    In an ideal world you get to use Landry the same way the Texans use a guy like DeAndre Hopkins or GB uses Jordy Nelson, working crosses 8-15 yards down the field where he can use his toughness and body control to make the tough plays on the ball. His YPC might be a byproduct of the OLs inconsistency pass blocking or it could just be poor play design. I’m not really sure which. The idea of using a guy with 4.6 speed who doesn’t make guys miss AND struggles to separate on the occasions he does, that close to the LOS is mystifying to me.

    From a team building standpoint, I struggle with the fact I genuinely like Jarvis as a player; he reminds me of a more outspoken Hines Ward but he doesn’t have great physical tools and I wonder how long he will be effective for. I don’t like paying players who aren’t pass rushers or QBs more then 5-6% of the salary cap which is roughly 8-10m but I think Landry will command that on the open market and I’d hate for him to land in NE or somewhere. I’d be willing to acquiesce on the low end of my cap beliefs but if things move towards the higher end I’d probably rather tag and trade if it moves past 10M per. Hurts to say that but when you need 53 guys to win and a salary cap exists, it has to be a team first mentality if you’re looking at the big picture, though I don’t fault a player for “wanting his” when most players don’t even see a second contract. Going against that is how you land in cap hell and find yourself unable to build the continuity and consistency year to year that you spoke about in the other thread.
     
  7. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,323
    4,012
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    I'm not sure he would land in New England. He doesn't seem to be a Belick kind of guy. Too outspoken and a little bit of a head case. I love the guy. He's almost the heart of the team IMO.
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    People forget, BB had Randy Moss, Darrelle Revis etc who were outspoken. You know what B.B. hates more then talking to the media...losing. I agree Landry is the heart of the team, but overpaying a guy without great physical tools can lead you to wonder how he will age and what kind of return you can expect from him if he were to get the ball less then he does now and become more of complimentary piece.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    besides speed and height what physical tools doesn't he have?

    I've had him down all offseason and regular season for 5/60 mill..
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    More then speed, acceleration is what I like to specifically look at in a receiver. It’s one thing to run A 4.3 or 4.4 as you can accomplish those in different ways. Some players are slow out of the gate and take time to build up speed and still get the time. Other players can hit their stride in 2-3 steps. But speed, acceleration, height, jumping ability (by nfl standards) are the ways in which a player can create separation in the NFL. Landry is unique because he’s a successful NFL player without any of those. It’s rare. Just about every other starting caliber wideout has at least one of those. There might be 3-5 guys in the league besides Landry without one and no one I can think of at his level. I wonder how long he can sustain it for. That probably won’t be popular but what Landry really does well is run routes and eventually the league catches on as to what routes he likes.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    interesting, I'm not saying you do Matt, don't get me wrong, I don't correlate talent in football with any of those things..and I don't think he's successful because of his route running ability..

    I can find anyone who is tall and cant play receiver..

    I can find anyone who can jump that cant play receiver,

    I can find anyone who can run fast who cant play receiver.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    True but with in the context of players in the league already most of them have at least one of those traits.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    for the record I think Juice is a super talented football player, his football coordination and hand eye stuff is elite, his strength lb for lb is elite, his hands are elite...ok, so he's not fast, cant jump that high, and isn't tall, so, take off a few million because of it..

    The reason you talk about are the reasons why he shouldn't be paid Julio jones aj green money, thats just a reality and something that should be pointed out as to why he shouldn't get their type of cash..

    Juice is very good but he's not Antonio brown so he shouldn't get paid as such.
     
    dolphin25 and Boik14 like this.
  14. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    I agree with everything you wrote but GM's are not always so rational with their owners money.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I think I think he's worth 10 mill a year, I would offer 12 a year, he'll probably get 13.
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  16. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

    366
    387
    63
    Apr 30, 2017
    I think the TD's will more than off set his lower YPC. He's not really a guy that is built to be a red zone threat (not a big tall guy), but he has found a way this year, 8 times as you said. So now when he negotiates, nobody can hold a lack of being a scoring threat over his head. I don't think anyone will build their offense around him scoring TD's or working outside as much as in the slot, but he has shown what he can do. He is what he is, but he is making the most of what the has been blessed with through hard work.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,641
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    I would go to an average of 10 but it shouldn’t be more then 4-5 years and the guaranteed money needs to be years 2+3 because of that dumb Andre Branch contract.
     
  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    This is more scheme than player in my opinion. Routes are predesigned with a certain depth, if he is catching mostly short routes it's because it is designed that way by gase and Christensen. However in terms of Landry it has been a little disappointing that he hasn't been able to gain as many yac yards this year compared to his previous seasons here. That has also contributed to his lower avg.
     
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Here you go Dirty, maybe this will make your day:

     
  20. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    First of all, Miami only has Stills and Landry in the passing game. Drake is developing and you can't count on Grant, Parker and Thomas. So if you remove Landry, what passing game do you have? I believe that if Miami can work on pass protection in he offseason and get One dude, a TE or WR that can help draw some attention, Landry can be a bigger play WR. Look at his long catches last year against AZ and NYJ late in the year. Deep/semi-deep crossing route on a nickel or LB, taking both long, one for a TD
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  21. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    This is a much more reasonable thread to start than your usual one DL, spurs real discussion.

    I actually agree with the sentiment that it's the coach's fault. THe numbers are skewed by all the stupid early WR screens they insisted on calling. Jarvis isn't without his faults. Nothing more painful than watching him run a deep sideline route where you know he can not outrun coverage - ever. But, the guy can still be incredibly impactful if we design the right plays around him. His impact in the games we have won this season has been so obvious. Everyone is scared of a 13M / year deal for the guy, but in a couple of years, that will be blown away with newer contracts. We need to focus on building this offense around Drake, Jarvis, Stills and RT. instead of letting Jarvis walk and drafting yet another WR we hope pans out, we keep the talent we have and keep trying to fix the OLine and upgrade TE position.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  22. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    agreed, but no one is suggesting he get Antonio Brown money which is about 17 million a year. That is the current contract for eilte WRs, so if they can get him for 13 million, I consider that reasonable - if they can backload it a little and structure it so we can get out of it later.
     
  23. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    everyone thought Stills would kill us too. I actually believe Jarvis has taken one for the team, based on the fact they couldn't run or throw vertical for a while.
     
  24. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    nothing shows
     
  25. SocaCasualuk

    SocaCasualuk Active Member

    223
    88
    28
    Sep 21, 2014
    U.K.
    I don’t care about YPC all that maters is TDs baby, and Juice has 8 and on course for 10+. All the noise pre season was that he didn’t produce in end zone and that’s why he can’t be considered elite. Well now look.
    Pay the man. He’s the heart and soul of our team.
     
  26. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

    382
    507
    93
    Nov 16, 2013
    13 Mil/yr seems high to me. Jarvis is a great player, but the offense isn't built off him. He is that perfect complement to other pieces. I hope we push 9 - 10 mil and I hope he wants to play for us enough that he takes the team friendly deal. 13 Mil I believe puts him in the top 10 WRs in the league.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    13 is high, but he means more to the team than the stat sheet.

    I'm in at $13 million.
     
  28. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    unlike Miller or Vernon, I agree. He is the leader of this offense. Go look at those long Ajayi runs last year, and tell me who the last man blocking was.

    On a side note, playing Buffalo reminds me of Aaron Williams. I found this:
    http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...e-to-play-again-not-shaken-by-devastating-hit
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  29. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    Thanks TBaum. We know how you like to spend money!
     
  30. The Finest

    The Finest Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    912
    1,395
    93
    Oct 3, 2011
    Jarvis Landry is really good

    He'd be even better if we had a true number one threat at receiver
     
  31. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    it's been in the back of my mind. Would Miami address that again? Going through a list of potential FA's doesn't impress me too much. One name, Sammy Watkins, and his development in LA would be of interest. He is 24. But I don't like his is injury prone. He hasn't put up huge numbers, but seems to flow better in that offense.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No you're right let's get rid of Thill, James, Tunsil, Landry, Wake and create even more holes. Makes perfect sense.
     
  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
  34. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    when did I say get rid of Landry? WRONG AGAIN. When did I say get rid of Tunsil? WRONG AGAIN. I did say move Tunsil to guard. BUT, you tend to have amnesia. You also tend to mis-quote/mis-represent someone's posts and dictate their feelings. I haven't really seen one post from you with substance
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    You just gave me crap for wanting to sign Landry for 13. That would mean you don't him at that number, which means you'd be fine letting him go instead of paying that. Moving Tunsil still creates a hole...at LT a harder hole to fill than guard.

    All you've ever suggested is creating more holes on this team and bringing in broke down vets that are beyond their time, like Revis. You are the Browns.
     
  36. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    did I say directly don't pay him $13M? No, I just called you TBaum and that you like to spend money. You get caught up in average salary too much. It's all about guaranteed money. Let me educate you (again)

    Stills signed a 4 yr $32M deal. The potential out is 2019, that would be 2 years and $17M. Learn, bro, learn


    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/kenny-stills-12425/
    here we know how much you need links
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No, no, no. You're moving goalposts (again) for having your stance called out for being ridiculous (again).

    You see my posts, you don't read/understand them but you have to go off, (because I'm so in your head my mail comes there) and you'll either:

    - Insult me
    - Insult me to someone else
    - Change what you're saying and/or insult me
    - Double down on what you were objectively wrong about and/or insult me
    - Insult me by trying to make a point, then have the point called out...then back through the options again.
     
  38. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    you still can't answer the $13M huh? LOL
     
  39. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

    4,214
    1,750
    113
    Aug 2, 2015
    who gets mail still?
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Answer it? WTF are you talking about?

    Do you think I just popped into the thread and made up 13?
     

Share This Page