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Official Gameday Thread. Bills vs Phins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    So, is he a bust at LT? Or does he need to develop further? Or can he develop further? I don't know, I need to see another season. Is Parker a bust? Or does he turn it on next year? Closer to a bust, based on this season, but he would not be the first WR to 'get it' in his fourth year. Even if he did, Miami can just use the fifth year option and see if he does well in back-to-back seasons.

    Our real issue, as usual of late, will be the play of Tanny in 2018.
     
  2. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd hope that a high first round pick would have "gotten it" by their second year. Its not looking good for either of them.
     
  3. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree. The Dolphins drafted Jake Long in the first round and he instantly became a Pro Bowl LT
    in his rookie season and and remained a Pro Bowl caliber LT until injuries ended his career far too soon.

    Tunsil was suppose to be by far the best offensive linemen in his draft class and he would have probably been a top three draft pick if not for the marijuana film coming out the day of the draft.

    He just hasn’t shown that he is anything more than a mediocre LT in the NFL. The Dolphins definely need an upgrade over Tunsil for the most important position on the offensive line.
    They should move him back to one of the guard positions next year and draft a LT to replace him, IMO.
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  4. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Can someone queue Jim Mora.... “Playoffs?!?!?”
     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Possibly, but it could just be coaching/scheme. Remember the scandal nonsense we had this year. Sad to say but it's quite possible Tunsil goes to another team and starts to improve. On top of that is the guard play. As much as we individualise OL players the reality is there's a combination effect. Better guards will mean better tackles.
     
  6. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    What a disgrace. Just watched the "highlights". If I was the coach the paint would be coming off the walls in the dressing room. Cutler? Utter ****e!!!! Missed tackles that my grannie could have made to let in a quaterback who was throwing up lob balls all afternoon and our crap defence was allowing to be caught. Gase can do one as of now !
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The other part to remember is that this is Tunsil's rookie year at LT. He played well as a rookie at LG and I think we place him back there before even thinking of trading him. There's no way you're going to get better quality at a cheaper price- Tunsil is not going anywhere.
     
  8. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Got a lot of heat for my post before the game and I decided to stay out of the game day threads as were all emotional there. Let me make a point here. I'm not trying to change anyone mines here. A lot of the fans here have rose colored eyes were the Dolphins are their team and win / lose / tie the root for them. Good for you if your one of those types. I however am not. I spend a lot of money and time on the Dolphins and have for going on 30 years now.

    What I posted was 100% my observations of this organization and exactly what I said happened. People got giddy with a win over the Pats and thought we would continue the run. This team is consistent, hasn't been for MANY years and for all those who said last year last year let me remind you we backed into that because others lost. Still we got in. What I am saying is I refuse to fall for the 7-0 8-8 is good enough and we will get em next year.

    I don't want to come here and ***** and moan, but this year has been brutal on me. Gase seems to be coaching horrible the team lacks focus, drive. Cutler has ZERO fire out there and he sucks, Thomas is a failure, and the younger guys don't seem to be getting capable coaching from proven winners. Were just recycling loser mentality.

    As a fan I demand a better team, coaching, until we get that were screwed. We have so many holes that one offseason is going to be really difficult to fill.

    Hate on me all you want, but I told you don't get fooled this team isn't ready for contending and I don't see Ryan coming back and being the savior. That's what they are going to sell us. 2-3 freeagents and Ryan will fix this.

    We need a hell of a lot more than that.


    -------------------------------
    Tunsil gets another year, Parker should be traded, Landry should be signed. We need 2 offensive lineman in freeagency good young players.

    We need a TE, and we need Linebackers, Cameron wakes replacement, should trade suh (if we can I think he has 1 more year?) and we need another corner.
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    SF beating Tennessee at halftime 16-10. Man.. the worst part about this loss would be if SF wins because the way Tennessee is playing they are VERY likely to lose at least one (maybe both) of their remaining games against the Rams and Jags. And all we needed was for Tennessee to lose 2 of their last 3 and (with truly minor exceptions) we controlled our own destiny.

    If that happens I'm going to be way more upset than right now lol!

    EDIT: just happened. Titans lost. Man.. we means we almost certainly would have controlled our own destiny and let it slip away.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If the Titans lose out and we win the last two, we get the #6 slot. Just sayin'. =)
     
  11. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Really? How so? Let's assume Tennessee does lose these last two games. We still have to beat KC, and even then, don't we need the Chargers to lose?
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    This year has been brutal on everyone, including the organization itself. And I realize some people blow their tops after a tough loss and then calm down as the week goes, I don't know if that's the case for you or not. But when people complain that Gase is coaching horrible or we had the wrong people on the field, I can't help but ask- what do YOU do different?

    You lose your starting QB less than two weeks before the season- and you built an entire offense around his tools. There's no quick fix for that no matter how anyone spins it...your team is going to start slow on offense. So we basically run a high school level offense that Cutler initially shined in, but other teams quickly caught on and shut our butts down. Again, what do you do different in weeks 7, 8 and 9 when people just aren't getting it...especially when the QB you're bringing up to speed goes down for a few weeks?

    I'll tell you what Gase did- he reinvented the entire freaking offense mid-season. We looked good in both Pats games and you would have expected it to carry over to today....but Cutler completely melted down in spectacular fashion. If you want to scream about Cutler, I completely get it, but what's the coaching staff supposed to do differently? We changed the entire offense three times in one season to try and salvage what we can.

    As far as the young folks playing bad, I'm sorry- I call BS. Drake has the most yards from scrimmage this month for any RB. No corner in the league has played better than Howard. Landry, Stills, and Grant have all been solid role players, as has many of our defensive rookies from this season. We just don't have a freaking QB that can be depended on.

    I know we disagree on this team's outlook for 2018 and that's fine- nothing wrong with disagreeing. But what the heck do you do in 2017 with no QB 2 weeks before the season starts? Cutler was by far the safest bet...and that bet didn't pay off. Until you can come up with a more dependable QB1 that understands the playbook last-minute though, I just can't accept the "Gase sucks" narrative daily when he's been awesome this season with the ****y tools (as in, QB1) he had to work with.
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Almost impossible now. Maybe you're thinking of a potential 2-way tie with Tennessee because we beat them? Problem is that's no longer possible because both Buffalo and the Ravens are 8-6, so if both win at least one more we're out, but if one loses both remaining they force a 3-way 8-8 tie assuming we win out and Tennessee loses out.

    So basically only chance is multi-way tie at 8-8. Again, first prerequisite is EITHER Ravens losing out OR Buffalo losing out AND Chargers winning only one more at most.

    So what happens then? It gets real messy because Tennessee would tie us in conference record and we'd go to "common games, minimum 4" but that doesn't apply so it's strength of victory, and the Dolphins are -90 in point differential, so it's essentially impossible in practice now to make the playoffs without even considering the other 8-8 teams. We killed our own chances, even though we had one up until today.
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    1) We'd need to win two.
    2) We'd need the Chiefs, Chargers, Bills and Raiders to finish no better than 8-8 (one can technically be 9-7).
    3) We're in on conference record.

    The Bills (NE/Mia) have two tough games and the Chargers (NY/Oak) are playing poorly. I still think the Raiders are doomed too. The Ravens aren't in this anymore because we can't catch them, they can take the #5 (by going 2-0 or 1-1) or tie us at 8-8...that doesn't matter anymore. We are certainly still in this though because we play the Bills still and because the Chargers lost.

    The way Cutler played today it almost doesn't matter...I'm just mentioning this because we're technically still alive and there's a real chance Buffalo doesn't win another game. So as long as the Chargers/Bills/Raiders are losing and we can win, the math says we're not eliminated for at least another week.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yup, i was typing the same thing while you were typing. I agree.....it's a fairly extreme long shot, but it's still the same as last week since the Chargers lost and the Bills win doesn't cripple us if we win the last two.
     
    bigballa2102 likes this.
  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    That's what I just figured out. It would take a miracle. Either the Jets (without McCown) or the Broncos would have to beat the Chargers. Of course...we would have to win out, Tennessee would have to lose (very possible), and we'd have to hope Buffalo didn't magically find a way to beat the Pats.
    Of course....All these scenarios will happen for us, and we'll lose to Joe Webb and the Bills.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah guys.. don't forget the key difference between last week and this week: we probably go to strength of victory in case we tie with Tennessee and other 8-8 teams, and we just can't win that. It's practically impossible now.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    When Tannehill went down in the off-season I wasn't expecting playoffs. Even now, if the Dolphins had won, it would have been exciting to see the Phins in a playoff game, especially for the Dolphins that have worked so hard this season. Honestly, though, this just doesn't feel like a true Dolphins season because Cutler was a last minute patch job. Had this been Moore all the way though I'm not sure we would have done better, but I think I would have been more behind it. He's a Dolphin and it would have been the Dolphins out there doing their best. Still, a poor season would have been understandable, we've just played, are playing, an entire season without our starting QB. How much would anyone expect from any team running on a backup QB who isn't a clear heir-apparent?

    Now, I'll admit, this is me who at the start said Cutler has the uniform on, he's a Dolphin now and should be treated as such. Perceptions on attitude aside, all the feedback from the coaches, players and media is that he's been putting work in. So I'm not going to change that he should be supported as a Dolphin. Nevertheless, there's a difference between a long-standing backup, or a new backup for the future, and a one-year guy brought in to add the most talent possible for a back up QB. Nothing against, it just doesn't 'feel' like he's a 'real' Dolphin.

    Kudos to the guy for strapping up and getting in there. He signed up and he's played the season. If anything, this is a clear indication that the Dolphins' FO need to find a legitimate back up QB, or else, that Gase tried an experiment and it failed.

    Now, defense-wise, it's more concerning. We've had injuries, but that's football. No reason this team shouldn't have been more dominant than it was at times. It has me, right now, looking at the FO and coaching. Our picks have been decent recently, but the trades not the best. We need to revamp technique and scheme and get something working here.

    Anyway, I'm rambling. Main point, as crappy as it is, once THill went down, that was the season. Then the hurricane and all that horrible scenario + the coaching scandal. We are right where we thought we would be, in this regard. Hopefully Gase can prove himself the real deal and build this team towards success soon. That's our best hope.
     
    danmarino, adamprez2003 and KeyFin like this.
  19. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    "Hopefully Gase can prove himself the real deal and build this team towards success soon. That's our best hope."

    If that's our best hope then we're DOOOOOOOOOOMED !
     
  20. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    3 years? That's the amount of time a coach can get fired. This is the fundamental problem of Miami, draft someone that has zero impact, wait three years, then have more excuses after that...stay mediocre.
     
  21. rackhound

    rackhound Well-Known Member

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    If they had started Moore and he had stayed healthy all year we make the playoffs. There were games we lost early that cutler played absolutely horrid in. Moore may have ups and downs but his downs aren’t anything like cutlers.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The one thing I've loved the most out of Moore over the years is that when he screws up, he just shrugs his shoulders and comes back out throwing even better. For instance, his first pass in relief of Tannehill last season was a bomb that was picked off. We all silently cussed the man. But two offensive plays later, Moore launches another bomb and connects with Stills on a deep TD. We won that game.

    I agree with others here that Moore's time as a Dolphin should soon come to an end due to age/health. We do need a young stud in the stable perfecting his craft and it would be good to know if that person is already on the roster. Because if he's not, then we will have Moore as QB2 until we find that guy. I'm all for keeping Moore but after this season, it just doesn't make sense to not have a future starter in the fold.
     
    rackhound likes this.
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Moore:
    Worst 2
    47.2 rating
    70.1 rating

    Best 2
    106.5 rating
    102.9 rating

    Cutler:
    Worst 2
    47.5 rating
    52.1 rating

    Best 2
    121.3rating
    114.1 rating

    I'm no fan of Cutler, but Moore is as bad or worse than Cutler.
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree and danmarino like this.
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Tunsil is one of the highest rated pass blocking tackles in the NFL.
     
    aesop likes this.
  25. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    list?
     
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's not really fair though because Moore has played six games in two years. Three of those games were against division rivals and the 4th was Baltimore (the 5th and 6th were bad/average teams). I can see where you're going with the comparison but Cutler has done that his entire career where Moore has sat the bench for 6 years.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, i just don't think Moore would rate better having played more games.
     
  28. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Jake Long was treated like a God and gave up 7 sacks his first 2 seasons. Tunsil has played 2 positions for 2 OL coaches, had a revolving door next to him both seasons and has only given up 6.
     
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  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I never really understood what all the hoopla about Jake long was about. He was always more hype than substance to me his play was never really at an elite level.
     
  30. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    One of the top mistakes this team has made, aside from passing on Brees and Moss. Passing on Matt Ryan was dumb. How is a LT supposed to muster up fans after a 1-15 season? This team refuses to draft or sign dynamic players.
     
  31. rackhound

    rackhound Well-Known Member

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    I may be wrong but i think those stats are misleading. Who were the low ratings against and how did the team play around them?
     
  32. rackhound

    rackhound Well-Known Member

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    If I had seen this before I posted I’d have quoted it in my above post.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its not misleading at all. You'll find that its all over the map in terms of quality opponents.
     
  34. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    manipulation of stats. I am not the only one who sees it
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't manipulate anything. Stop using words you don't understand.

    All I did was grab the 2 best and 2 worst qb ratings for each player this year.
     
  36. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    sorry, misleading was used
     
  37. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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  38. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    this team has been mediocre for how many years? The solution is ore of the same, right?
     
  39. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    You're reaching. What about them?

    What were they? How many are presnap and focus related? False starts? How many are postsnap and being aggressive?

    Its ok... I know you know of this. You're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks. He has struggled at LT some. So what? How did he do against guys like Ingram, Bosa, Jordan, Beasley, or other top DEs?

    He's been better his first 2 seasons than a guys like a #1 overall Eric Fisher or a #2 overall Luke Joeckel.

    Now waiting for hitman to tell me that he never liked them either and you to say something equally silly.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  40. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    he's a better guard. this team lacks an elite LT. Last year this team rolled with Albert at LT and Turnstile at G
     

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