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Ryan Tannehill Top 10 qb?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    again that's is your assumption for he did not quote any facts that could just be his opinion that he hasn't progressed etc. NO?
     
  2. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    well I didn't look at it as something that was actually a possibility, just like saying mayweather is gonna fight in the MMA lol its just something I shared, not saying he was right or wrong.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ok, i see you what you want to do. Whatever.

    Whether Barnwell tried to pass this stuff off as facts, opinions, fortunes from a cookie.....it doesn't matter...he was objectively wrong about all the things I listed.

    Opinions are not perfect and precious snowflakes that can never be wrong.

    It can be Barnwell's opinion that Thill is and always will be average.
    It is not merely an untouchable opinion to say he's never improved when he demonstrably has.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  4. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I understand that, im just saying reading it really doesn't know his context, what if it was his opinion without looking up stats? I would apply that he has access to the internet as we do. but im just saying if that his opinion then it cant be wrong. that's all. if he had showed stats and said he hasnt progressed then I would agree 100% its wrong, but if its an opinion then he cant be wrong and neither can you be right or wrong is all im getting at.
     
  5. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    A great QB makes you a perennial playoff team no matter how bad the team might be.

    We have too many holes to fill in one offseason and our “rebuilding” always fails after years and years of trying.

    Keep gunning for a QB in every draft until we find one that makes our team THAT MUCH better and a threat for the playoffs every season. (I.e.,) Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Russ Wilson, Marino, etc.,

    Counting on a complete team to stay healthy, be great every play is hard to accomplish... but so is finding that QB that will make you a perennial playoff team but I feel like every draft we should be aiming for that because that’s finding that QB no matter what round.

    1 ELITE GREAT QB vs finding X amount of “system players” to build around an average-above average QB. An elite QB will mask a ton of team deficiencies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again, opinions can absolutely be wrong.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    is 50% perennial? Since the Saints have made the playoffs 50% of the time with Brees.
     
  8. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    Not true, actually. A team needs need at least an average pass defense, even if it has the best QB in the league. Look at Drew Brees's half-dozen or so most recent seasons, for example, where he played at a level among the best QBs in the league, and the Saints' horrendous pass defenses during some of those seasons kept the team from making the playoffs.
     
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  9. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Yes that does qualify, .500 or better definitely qualifies.
     
  10. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    And he has still takin that team to the playoffs more than they should have. You kind of prove my point with this post. Most of his years in NO, Brees was always handed a poor defense. His greatness pulled that team along to the playoffs.

    In comparison, Tannehill has teams with issues and he has zero playoff appearances to show for it (because he isn’t elite).... to help you out and understand what I’m saying.
     
  11. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    The Saints have made the playoffs only when their pass defenses have been average or better, despite Brees's consistently high level of play.

    I'm not sure how you can attribute their playoff appearances to Brees alone under those conditions.
     
  12. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Lmao okay Jack. You absolutely right, HoF Brees had no importance at all. Aaron Brooks could of done it. By god. Smell the coffee already.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    They year they won the superbowl they had the 20th ranked defense in scoring, which was the worst their defense was when they made the playoffs. The rest are 13th and above.

    In the year they were 20th ranked in points, they had 26 interceptions and held the opponents to a quarterback rating of 68.6. Which is pretty good.
     
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  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He did not say that.
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's easy to say in hindsight- it's not what fans were saying about Brees his first 4-5 years...they wanted to trade him as well to find their next ultra-elite QB. He had two lousy years in SD, two really good years and one that was about average. Sound familiar yet? His WORST season over the next 12 years with the Saints was a 89.4 rating with 4,400 yards, 28 TDs and 13 picks.

    I think you're disproving your own point here because Brees wasn't drafted by the Saints- the Chargers definitely screwed up letting him walk. Tannehill seemed to turn a few corners late last season and early this year, and it really won't take too much more for him to be right there with Brees. Their career projections line up almost perfectly.
     
  16. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    SD didn’t screw up when the guy that replaced him just set the record for most passing yards in franchise history. Rivers is the Marino of our time with even worse teams though. Brees was terrific his last year in SD and they were pondering the decision to re sign him. It’s fact that ELITE QB play will take you to the playoffs at a .500 clip per season by the end of their careers. Tannehill is far from. Zero playoff appearance’s (5 seasons) despite 2013 being gift wrapped to him to make it in. But I digress.

    Keep drafting a QB till we find the one. He’s not in-house yet. We will keep having “holes” until this happens. Again, an ELITE QB will mask weaknesses all over the team.

    With Elite QB:
    Are the holes there? Yes

    Can they be seen? No

    Without Elite QB:
    Are the holes there? Yes

    Can they be seen? Yes (hence all the “Tannehill needs _____ for this hole fixed to take the next step” threads/post)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  17. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    If Brees had been replaced by an average quarterback for example, then in the seasons in which the Saints' pass defense was very poor, the team would've simply finished roughly 4-12, rather than roughly 7-9.

    Brees made a difference in every year, no doubt, the playoff ones and the non-playoff ones. But he can't make the playoffs even with his high level of play when the Saints' pass defense isn't average or better.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think they messed up greatly. They could have replaced those holes and have an elite quarterback.

    Elite qbs will mask weaknesses, however, they do not overcome them.

    if the Chargers don't make the playoffs this season they are less than 50% for the playoffs.
     
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  19. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    That’s why I use the word “mask” exclusively when talking about this.

    I hate excuses (i say this all the time regarding Tannehill so I may seem hypocritical here [hate this too]) but Rivers’ teams get hit with the injury bug so hard especially the last few years until this season that I truly feel bad, the guy played on a torn ACL himself, his stellar career looks like one big injury in a wierd way. Lol
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Other than last season I do not think Rivers takes any of the Tannehill lead teams to the playoffs.

    When I watch Miami play with Tannehill at quarterback, my thought isn't, "Man if Miami only had good quarterback play." It is this year with Cutler when I say that all of the time.

    Miami has some holes, however, unless it is obvious, I don't see an upgrade that will help the team this offseason.
     
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  21. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    100% right its based on opinions and what we "think" until the ball is snapped and its December next year we have no clue, there is a reason breese, brady and Rodgers are really in a league of their own, well I assume Rodgers is better than both but its hard to deal with bradys cheating.
     
  22. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I always wonder if breese would have came to Miami if we would have won 1, we seem to have a lot of pieces to the puzzle more than most but seem to never get it done I wonder this a lot!!
     
  23. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    What we do know however is that, despite the variation from year to year you're talking about for all quarterbacks, the better quarterbacks vary at a level significantly higher than do the worse ones.

    Aaron Rodgers (just off the cuff here) may vary within a range of a passer rating from 97 to 112, whereas someone the likes of Andy Dalton will vary within a much lower range, let's say 82 to 95.
     
  24. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    That's expected when you're talking about QBs in the upper tier cbrad outlined earlier in the thread, in comparison to ones in the middle tier. There will be some overlap between them. The worst seasons for the upper tier QBs will mimic the best ones for the middle tier QBs.
     
  25. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    According to Football Outsiders Bortles isn't doing anything spectacular this season, their pass offense is ranked 15th, an improvement but he's in the same mediocre tier as Tannehill, and always has been. Their pass defense is first though.
     
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  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It is possible with Saban's defense.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think Tannehill is better than Bortles.
     
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  28. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    Surrendering an opponents’ passer rating below 70 is incredibly good.
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is when statistics can help, at least when sample size becomes really large like with Matt Ryan. Multiple times last year, from mid-season all the way to end of 2016, I predicted Ryan's 2016 performance was a complete anomaly because the probability Ryan's 2016 ratings come from the same QB as his 2008-2015 is an unbelievably low 0.04%!!

    I think I started to make that prediction by game 7 last year because the probability was already down to 4.74% (which is less than the conventional threshold of 5%).

    Wasn't even paying attention to Bradford or I would have said something similar. It looks like Bradford's 2016 ratings have a 3.4% chance of coming from the same QB as his 2010-2015 ratings. Prescott however is one case where stats don't help because you don't have the necessary sample size.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is true, but it looks like the average cutoff point is at around age 27, after which ratings stabilize:
    [​IMG]

    So it's clear, all PR's are adjusted to 2016 (otherwise an "average" is kind of meaningless), the points those lines go through are years where the QB started 6+ games (ensures enough passing attempts for PR to be reliable), and this is only for QB's whose first season with 6+ games started was 1978 or later because the standard deviation changes dramatically pre-1978 vs. post-1978 due to rule changes.

    Oh! That QB at 44 years of age is Testaverde! Had no idea someone started 6+ games that old.
     
  31. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    I've not read the whole thread...I'm hungover....but top 10 out of a league of 32 teams is nowt to shout about. Top 5? Then I'll listen. Top 10? Meh.
     
  32. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    You clearly don’t remember:

    Brian Griese
    Jay Fiedler
    AJ Feeley
    Sage Rosenfels
    Gus Frerotte
    Joey Harrington
    Daunte Culpepper
    Cleo Lemon
    Ray Lucas
    Trent Green
    John Beck
    Chad Pennington
    Chad Henne
    Tyler Thigpen
    Pat White
    Matt Moore
    JP Losman
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    God I hate it when this pops up.

    Honestly, it is just the most lazy and uniformed argument out there.

    Reasons =/= excuses

    Besides, the point of a forum is to discuss and debate. It is NOT to tell us how happy or unhappy you are with the team/player/coach/etc.
     
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  34. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Since I have been posting on Dolphins message boards in the '90s - there have been people who protected their sanity/ego/fandom by blaming the quarterback/head coach/front office about the main problems on the team so that they would not get their expectations too high before the season began. I remember one on the OULDE Dolphins Message board who would cry from before the draft until the beginning of the season how bad the Dolphins would be/were/are in almost every post. Forever!!! I have removed the name from my memory (or my aging brain might be why) so that I would not recall those pages and pages long arguments. (KB might rememeber - he's a lot younger than I am!)
     
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  35. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Excuses are like ********. Everyone has one. RT has 3,742,621.5 though.

    Every other QB across the NFL? None... they have perfect settings in place.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Go to another place to to tell everyone how you feel about the team then. No one here cares.

    If you want to actually discuss football, then great, try it you might like it.

    If not, just go away.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am so thankful to Tannehill for stopping this list from the start of every Dolphin broadcast.
     
  38. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Lol.... lmao*, I was discussing football with someone else other than you and you intervened. So here’s your options:

    1) ignore me (but that would be no fun)

    2) don’t say anything

    You should know that I never, ever quote you as I know that I have nothing to tell you. Your the one that always quotes me so who really has the problem here?

    Pretty much everyone but dolphins fans KNOW Tannehill is mediocre. Only here is it a debate. It’s like arguing that the Sun is purple here lmao. So I say I want to upgrade the position and all this sudden “im not talking football” lmao too funny

    The best part is, I have stayed right on track with the thread NAMED “TANNEHILL TOP 10?”

    READ THAT THREAD TITLE ONE MORE TIME

    Your so sensitive to Tannehill and you are making it your life mission to get anyone banned who doesn’t agree that he is top 10. You and a few others trying to turn this website into a communist website. Thanks Adolf.

    To all the mods, please read all my posting up to this point. It’s been right on par with the thread subject and this was uncalled for by Fin D when I wasn’t even talking to him. I know his true intention here though and he’s looking for me to say the wrong thing. Ultimate trolling.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You weren't though.

    All you are saying is that Thill sucks and if you say why it is an excuse.

    That isn't a discussion. That's being an obnoxious fan.

    The whole point of this forum is to actually discuss reasons for the team/player/coach/etc. to be performing well or badly. You are halting that by saying any reason for poor play is an excuse.

    All you actually want to do is complain when they are bad and cheer when they are good. Which is great, but there's other places for that.

    All i want is good discussion, instead of cry baby BS that is present in youtube comments. I would LOVE it if a person that didn't like Thill put as much effort as Aqua did into explaining why. But you guys never do....I wonder why......

    Also, Hitler wasn't a communist, your understanding of history and government is worse than your understanding of football.
     
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  40. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    You obviously read none of my post in here and went right to knee jerk... not surprised. But I know your true agenda and I’m done responding to you for the duration of life. So quote away buddy. Your invisible to me however I can’t wait to see the look on your face when Miami has a new QB in 2018-19 though. I would pay a lot of money to see it.
     

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