1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New OC and QB thoughts

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rdrunn004, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    Alright, before anyone gets upset, I have no links and really no beef with RT. This is just a thought I had and didn’t want to post it in the Off-season predictions thread because I don’t consider it reality.

    I remember after Peyton Manning retired he spent some time here in Miami with Gase. Not sure what it was all about, but here is what I would like to see happen in the off-season:
    1. Give Peyton Manning a shot at OC if he accepts.
    2. Go after Eli Manning at QB.
    If we take this route it would make RT available for trade. I don’t really have any realistic options right now for trade, but I would like to see either a WR to replace Parker, an above average TE or LB in return. Maybe 2 out of the 3 if we get lucky in return.

    I would keep either Moore or Cutler as the backup and perhaps draft the QB from UCF (if he is draft eligible) as a project QB.
     
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I don't think any of that has a shot at becoming a reality. From what I hear, Peyton is definitely not looking for a job and has already turned down plenty of work. And I'd be very surprised if Eli is going anywhere other than the NY Giants locker room in 2018. That story was blown way out of proportion in the media.
     
    Boik14 likes this.
  3. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    I agree with you. If I were either Peyton or Eli, I wouldn’t be looking to change my current situation.

    However, I think the only thing that might tug at the right strings to encourage a change is the possibility of teaming up in OC/QB capacity. Of course, you would need to have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs and I am not sure if the Dolphins could do that at this point even with both of them in Miami. Like I said, I don’t see it as a reality (far from it), but it would be nice if the stars could align for us to see what that combo could accomplish.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Oh yeah, I think it would be awesome to have the brothers in the locker room....Peyton's biggest asset was always that you essentially had a head coach on the field. I just don't think the timing is there- I'm guessing big brother probably won't return to the NFL for a couple more years and by then, little brother will be retired.
     
  5. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

    2,540
    1,327
    113
    Aug 23, 2009
    Do you honestly think Eli would be an upgrade over Tannehill? If so, i would like to hear why.
     
    Fame, muskrat21, EverFin and 4 others like this.
  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    If we move away from Ryan then we need a young QB, not an aging one. That's basically the draft or a Manning type scenario where a top QB won't play for the dumpster fire that drafted him.

    Honestly, there are so many pieces that go into building a successful franchise, my eyes right now are on the coaching and ownership. If we need a new coordinator or two then Gase needs to see that. The position coaches too. There are still Miami culture issues with this team. I mean, if a coach hasn't bought into the right culture and instead can have a prostitution/drug issue going on, then odds are there are players who won't be taking their lifestyle seriously too. I suspect that's a tougher challenge in Miami than elsewhere.

    Gase and co are going to have to overcome that and build an identity that can win. Coaches, at all levels, are going to be a part of that, and bringing in some people with a history and culture of winning could be part of that. But they will need to be committed and passionate, not weekend visitors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    dolphin25 and KeyFin like this.
  7. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    Yes, I think Eli would be better than RT. I am not an expert here nor do I watch film, so my opinion here is based solely off of what I see in real time game action.

    I think Eli processes an offense better and can read a defense better. Also, I would trust Eli in making an audible at the line much more than I would trust RT to do so. While Eli can be inconsistent and turnover prone, RT gets a lot of balls tipped and batted at the line which has led to crushing INTs too. I feel like Eli moves in the pocket better than RT, but RT is more mobile. I want to say RT has improved in accuracy, but I still give the edge to Eli there including the deep ball.

    Bottom-line....Eli is playoff proven and RT is not. I would feel more confident going against NE in a playoff game at Gillette stadium with Eli under center instead of RT.
     
    gilv13 likes this.
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Did you see Tannehill in Gillette in 2016? I thought that was one of the most impressive showings by ANY QUARTERBACK that season. He absolutely went off on the Pats defense in the 2nd half. Of all the games this season, that's the one I was looking forward to the most with Tannehill.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Has Tannehill had an abnormal amount of tipped balls, other than maybe his rookie year?
     
  10. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    A part of that has to do with the OL not getting the DL’s hands down, but it feels like RT is good for about 2 to 3 tipped passes at the line in every game. This is just my perception of course, I don’t have the stats to prove that nor do I know where you would go to research that. I suppose this is something that happens to all QBs, but it seems to happen a lot to RT.
     
  11. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    I would like to see him do that to the Pats in the regular season again, but most importantly I want to see him do that in the post season. Could he do that?...maybe.

    I would simply feel more comfortable with Eli in that situation today over RT. That is not a knock on RT. He is still growing (and I think he was positioned to have a great season prior to the injury) and Eli has been there, done that. If we are talking long term, RT is the clear choice over Eli (who at best may have 4 yrs in the tank). My scenario with the Manning bros is more of a short term option which doesn’t sacrifice the quality of the QB position and gives you an option of making a trade with RT to build a competitive/playoff team for the remainder of Eli’s career.
     
    dolphin25 and KeyFin like this.
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Sure. My point was, if you don't know the answer to the question I asked, then perhaps don't go around making statements, that may or may not be accurate, and passing them off as factual. Especially when, as you said, more often than not batted balls are on the line not the QB.

    One other thing, Tannehill was what, 2nd in the league in deep ball accuracy in 2016, so unless Eli was number 1...
     
  13. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    You point is valid and appreciated and your right that I don’t know if RT tipped balls are abnormal or not.

    However, I wasn’t passing any of my “opinions” off as factual. Actually, I tried to go out of my way to say that they were just observations on real time game action and not based on stats or intricate game film review. I realize that stats could support or disprove certain opinions and stats could at times be misleading in either direction as well. For the purposes of this convo, I wasn’t really too interested in doing that kind of thorough investigation. I was asked why I feel Eli was better than RT and I provided my honest feedback to the question. The deep ball and tipped passes are just a part of it. I even acknowledge that I have noticed while watching on sundays that RT has improved on both, but I give the edge to Eli overall on QB ranking regardless.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,543
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I don’t see Peyton Manning puttin on the ole OC headset..
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Ok...when asked why you think a Eli is better, you use tipped balls and deep passes. Tipped balls you have no idea if Tannehill is actually bad or not, and you were exactly wrong on the deep passing. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but for 5 years the arguments against Tannehill have often been based on fraudulent things. I just want people to actually think about what they're saying, and maybe not say things if they're not actually true.
     
  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    I dont see Tannehill going anywhere. I have a very hard time believing they will move on from him at this time. i do think its time to move on from Moore as our backup so i am in favor of drafting a developmental qb. No idea who that would be but they need to get serious about it.

    i am way in favor of bringing another OC in. Gase had a few games where he caught his groove calling plays but i think its too much for any one guy to handle head coach duties and being the play caller on game days.
     
  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    In case you’ve been under a rock this past season here’s a newsflash...

    Ryan Tannehill did NOT play this season.

    I have to point this out to everyone who seems to have this notion we need to draft Tannehill’s replacement. Now, if Ryan Tannehill has been under center this season and directly contributed to our dismal season, I just might pick up that hymnal and start humming that tune myself, but he didn’t. That was Jay Cutler. Consider this...

    Tannehill went down with his knee injury on week 13 in 2016. Tannehill was having a career season, his best season ever with a career high 67.1 completion percentage, 2995 yards and 19 TDs. In fact, Tannehill is only the 4th quarterback in NFL history to throw for 3000 yards in his first 4 seasons and had he not been injured, would have made it 5 years. Want to guess how many quarterbacks have thrown for 3000 yards in their first 5 years?

    Quarterback play under Tannehill is not our teams problem. Our problem this year has been Cutler and our lack of defense
     
    miami365 and Tin Indian like this.
  18. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    I am not trying to knock RT. I have actually defended him in the past and still do. However, I saw him overthrow and under throw receivers on passes over 20 yards consistently in the past. Perhaps my fandom exaggerates the quantity, but it is a simple man’s perception. The stats you referenced are for 1 year and he had the 4th lowest attempts in passes that qualified for that stat in the league that year for QBs who play more than 8 games that year. Yet it seems his trajectory overall has been trending upward year after year.

    Granted he has improved on these two areas, but again I come back to the point that if I am choosing a QB today I would choose Manning over RT for the reasons that I stated if I am looking short term basis for a playoff contender.

    I understand your view may not consider my position valid, but they are assessments that are valid to me while I watch the games. Accuracy (deep ball included but not limited to), tipped balls, pocket presence, decision making abilities, mobility, audibles, commanding an offense, playoff experience/success. They are all factors that I considered to respond to the question. I can’t provide you stats to support all the stats and I am sure RT is not behind Eli in all of those if you research the stats, but to me Eli would be my choice over RT if I were forced to choose. Again just my honest perception based on the games I have watched even if others disagree with that assessment.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  19. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

    6,826
    2,350
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    City Of Angels
    He...is..not..coommming hereee....(nationwide jingle)
     
    Boik14 and Fin D like this.
  20. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I’m not knocking Eli Manning personally but Eli’s success isn’t due to his pedigree, it was due to Tom Coughlin.

    Unless some strange deal is made that sends Eli to Jacksonville, you’re seeing the beginning of the end for Eli Manning.

    Being a quarterback in New York is the toughest position in the NFL
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  21. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Tipped balls at the LOS were certainly an issue for Tannehill early in his career. It doesn't appear to be anywhere near what it was early in his career. Of course, it's not a tracked stat as far as I know, but we all know it was an issue early, I mean, that is afterall where the perception came from.

    However, I don't buy the notion it's not on the QB. It most certainly is. Should the OL be occupying DL's hands, sure, to an extent, but QB's can quite often avoid tipped balls by not tipping off their throw by using their eyes. DL will often read the eyes of the QB as well, if he's staring your way, you see that throwing motion start with his eyes in your area, get those mitts up. Happens all the time.

    Happens to all QB's though. Especially on those short routes, especially when the OL is getting pushed back, and especially when QB's don't use their eyes well enough.

    That being said, we saw it several times with Cutler this year as well. Eyes, predictability, and lack of quality pass protection all contribute to it IMO. I don't think it's something specifically tied to Tannehill, it just happens in quick read and quick/short passing offenses because you'll have lower trajectory passes too that are easier to get hands on.

    As for the topic... I don't see Manning coming here as an OC. I'd love to see him spend time in our camp as a QB coach though. As for Eli... I don't see him leaving NY either. They'll probably draft one, but I doubt they'll ditch Eli for him as a week 1 starter.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,543
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    spot on analysis about tipped balls.
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    3000+ yards passing is hardly a benchmark anymore.

    22 QB's did it in 2017, 25 QB's did it in 2016, 23 QB's did it in 2015, 22 in 2014, .. well you get the idea. Compare that to only 10 doing it in 1983, the year Marino was drafted. Average passing yards per team in the NFL is now at 3,590 so all you really need to do to get 3000+ yards passing is to be a starting QB for all 16 games and just not happen to be one of the worst QB's in the NFL.

    Just check out many of the more recently drafted QB's: Andy Dalton and Cam Newton both now have 7 consecutive years with 3000+ passing yards, Russell Wilson has 6 consecutive years, Derek Carr has 4, etc..

    Even lower tier QB's like Bortles have little trouble doing this if you let them start all 16 games. Bortles had 2908 yards his rookie year but started only 13 games, then had 4428 his 2nd year, 3905 his 3rd year and 3687 this year.

    So having 4 consecutive 3000+ yard seasons isn't much of an argument for keeping a QB in today's NFL.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  24. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Tannehill played 13 games with Gase. The first few were pretty bad. In his final 8 he posted a 100 passer rating and almost a 3-1 TD to Int ratio. Now he has a year on the sideline. I expect big things from RT.
     
  25. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I definitely do...probably right before he puts on the head coach headset and the GM headset. I think he will be back in the league for decades.
     
  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    You must’ve misunderstood the statement. Ryan Tannehill is only the 4th quarterback in NFL history to throw for 3000 yards in his FIRST FOUR YEARS. Not 3000 yards in a single season, but 3000 in his 1st four years in the league.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    I understood you perfectly. You should reread my post. It's a perfect rebuttal to your argument that this is somehow special in today's NFL.
     
  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,817
    10,321
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Then by your logic, nearly EVERY quarterback drafted should start and throw for 3000 yards every year? Is this your position?
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    No.. if let's say 22-23 out of 32 QB's pass for 3000+ yards in a year nowadays, then (22.5/32)^4 = 24-25%, or around 7-8 out of 32 QB's in today's game should have 4 consecutive 3000+ yard seasons just based on random variation.

    Still an accomplishment, but nothing like it used to be is all I'm saying.
     
  30. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

    1,407
    874
    113
    May 11, 2014
    nobody is going to address he wants to draft UCF's QB? who is listed at 5'11 177... don't need to draft him, you can go to burger king and sign him. also he's not eligible thank god.
     
  31. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I am not a fan of Tannehill, however I do think him sitting on sidelines for a year will actually help him
     
  32. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

    1,043
    1,581
    113
    Mar 20, 2012
    Vero Beach
    Yeah, you need to watch Eli when he's not playing in the Super Bowl and then come back here and try to make this argument.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,543
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I’ll take that bet...

    Only job I see him doing is in the front office
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,651
    67,543
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    That 5’11 Burger King reject was phenomenal on news years day....when he does come out I think he deserves more respect than your giving him
     
  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I watched him a couple of times this year and he is ridiculous good.
     
  36. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    Yea I watched that UCF QB a few times and came away impressed every time. Now it could have been all Frost, but we will find out next year. I would expect his performance to take a hit, but if it remains close to this year without Frost then perhaps he is a solid prospect. It’s a shame he is only 5’11” but I had looked that up before and that is why I figured he could be a project QB and if he outplays the backup and starter then He deserves a shot. If he maintains his performance, I would want him Just as much as I would want the One-handed LB on UCF depending on the round which he is projected when he becomes eligible.
     
  37. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    Ugh, sadly enough I watched more Giants games this year then what I am willing to admit since I had Eli on my 2QB fantasy team. Honestly, I thought he did a commendable job with the sh***y OL, non-existing running game and collection of 3rd string WRs or worse which he was playing with for the majority of the season.
     
  38. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

    1,407
    874
    113
    May 11, 2014
    he had 30 yards passing at halftime what is impressive about that? it took 3 quarters to get good. in the NFL the game is already over at that point. unless you have the number 1 defense like the broncos and teblow.
     
  39. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

    1,318
    638
    113
    Oct 22, 2013
    So CAL
    peyton is like every other HOF player, there is no place for them on the sidelines they are way to competitive to be there, he will most likely take a front office position at some point. I wouldn't waste my time with eli IMO hes been a little over rated I know he has 2 superbowls but ive always thought this. he will most likely go to the jags and reunite with his compa!!!

    Given that if the Giants are really rebuilding are they gonna part with OBJ and eli and start a big rebuild? interesting to think about.
     
  40. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

    157
    43
    28
    Jan 20, 2010
    Miami
    I haven’t heard anything about OBJ being available under a new regime, but I may be possible and it would make the scenario which I started this thread with even more interesting. Imagine this for a second:
    1. Peyton at OC
    2. Eli at QB if NYG parts ways with him
    3. Offer NYG a trade for OBJ. Maybe RT, Stills and/or Parker, and a draft pick (2nd or 3rd rounder). If you send them both WRs, we still have Grant/Carroo/Scott as your backups.
    This may allow you to pay Landry and keep him happy by reuniting him with his LSU teammate. Restructure Suh and attack TE and LB in the draft.

    I would still target that UCF QB as my project/backup when he becomes eligible and if he maintains his level of performance after Frost.

    Well now I think I went over the top on this fantasy scenario. Lol. But I would think it would make Miami a bigger competitor then what we are currently looking at with RT and maybe no Landry.
     

Share This Page