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Would you take Jack del rio as our new DC?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Ive been Rossi g this idea around jack del rio was let go from Oakland after a disappointing season. If he doesn’t get another head coaching gig and I don’t think he will would anyone be objectionable to hiring him as our defensive coordinator?

    I seem to remember him as a players kinda coach a tough sob and he had some good success as a head coach as well. Could or should Gase bring in a previous coach as a coordinator?
     
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  2. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    would love it. only reason he was let go is gruden is coming or he would still be the coach. Just as I would let gase go for gruden no matter what I see gase gone in the next 2 years
     
  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would I? I don't know. He was the HC there, and that defense wasn't that good IIRC. I haven't followed the guy much, but was he ever really regarded as a top notch DC in his day? Or just a guy that was a DC, and had qualities you'd think would be worth considering for a HC in leadership, communication, a plan etc. etc. etc.

    Does it matter though? Nope. Because Matt Burke is still our DC. Until that changes, it's irrelevant.
     
  4. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    ^^THIS^^

    Gase will let himself get run out of town before he fires Burke.
     
  5. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    What's with all the speculation on filling positions that aren't vacant? Burke is our DC. Until that changes, all you're doing is looking to bash someone by suggesting they need to be replaced with guys who, at one point, were also young coordinators trying to work out the kinks.
     
  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Burke is and will be our DC for 2018.

    If things go horrible next season and we start over, then yes at that point I'd be interested in Del Rio as the new Head coaches DC.
     
  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    No, absolutely not.

    There is no way Del Rio doesn't see himself as a head coach, and he will either be pressing to be given it here or he will just leave after a year or two and we will be in the same boat.

    The hate on Burke is over the top right now - he wasn't bad. We struggled with an offense that couldn't stay on the field, put up points or sustain drives, and we don't have the defensive talent to overcome it. He's a first year guy - he should improve. Add some offensive improvement and they will be fine.

    The Pats game I feel was a great case where we saw solid offensive production lead to stifling defense.
     
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  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I feel like Del Rio may not have a choice at this point to accept a DC position though. His HC days in the league might be done now. Oakland was his second shot. Most guys get two shots, and then it's back to co-ordinator, or "consultant", or "assistant HC", or position coach with an assistant something or other title. I don't see him getting a third shot at being a head coach. If he had some success, then yeah, maybe. Given his track record I just don't see that happening, at least not anytime soon.

    I know someone said earlier that Del Rio got fired because Gruden was interested or something to that effect, but I think regardless of Gruden's interest, Del Rio was going to be on the chopping block. There hasn't been enough success there given the crop of talent. Sure, the shelves are a bit weak on the back end of the D, but they're convinced they have the QB, they had weapons at WR, and RB, a good OL, some good pieces on D to build around, and they flat out failed again this year. Sure, Carr got hurt, and that sets them back, but I think in their eyes they've underachieved with Del Rio. Didn't he kind of just fall into that HC job there anyways? I could be wrong, but I feel like he was a co-ordinator there, and was promoted on an interim basis, then made the permanent HC? Maybe I'm wrong.

    However, bottom line, they underachieved again this year with him at the helm, they're moving to a new market, so I feel like unless they made the playoffs and won a game this year, he may have been out anyways. They'll want a big name, hence the chase of Gruden.
     
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  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    He's now been fired as a head coach twice. He'll be 55 next season, and has only led three teams to the playoffs, with a 1-3 playoff record. His overall regular season record is one game below .500. History, recent or not, doesn't show a lot of guys in his position getting a third crack at a HC job. To me, that makes him more desirable as a guy for the DC spot, should he be interested and should the spot be open in a year, and more likely to then stick as a DC.

    Many guys in his position actually retire or move to college ball. See Lovie Smith, Steve Mariucci, or our own former HC Dave Wannstedt.
     
  10. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Like I said yesterday, I think Del Rio would be a great choice for an assistant HC kind of position. Exactly what Gase needs. Another set of eyes on the game as it unfolds. A Defensive background with HC experience. Keep Burke as DC if you want. Del Rio could use a two year rebuild for himself, help the young guns get some experience and maybe get another shot for himself. I'm in.
     
  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I've always liked Del Rio, as both a player and a coach. The problem with Del Rio as a head coach however is he'll come in and make an immediate positive impact, but can't sustain it. Instant success in Jacksonville and Oakland, but then it goes downhill.

    Gave this some though last night and it really wouldn't be such a bad idea having him as an assistant head coach with eyes on the defense and help coach Burke along. Now there are those who say Burke wasn't the problem and it was the injuries we had. If that's the case, status quo no harm no foul but if it is Burke, then Del Rio would be able to pick up that slack.

    Personally however, I just don't see it happening.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I always say, in general, you want a young and hungry OC who thinks outside the box and an old grizzled DC who has seen it all.

    But I'm willing to give Burke another year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Totally agree that it would be a bad choice to fire Burke. Any coordinator needs at least two years to prove themselves, unless there's something off the field happening or else they're so in over their head that they don't belong. I don't see either as the case with him. Let's see if things can get better next season. If they don't, then its possible that the whole staff could be swept out.
     
  14. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Also in the rumor mill,

    John Fox, former defensive coordinator, is looking for work. Of course there is a big connection between Gase and Fox whom he coached under in Denver and again in Chicago. Fox gave Gase his first OC job.

    Fox has more than just DC experience of course, he has been a head coach for three NFL teams and has taken two of those teams, Carolina and Denver, to the Super Bowl. Gase could use some of that experience in pre-game preparation as well as during games.

    Vic Fangio might be. A highly respected defensive coach, Gase worked with Fangio in Chicago and the two are reportedly good friends. Fangio’s contract with the Bears expired today.....
     
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  15. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Please do it. We donthave to fire Burke he can go back to his assistant jobs or leave on his own!
     
  16. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Bears DC Vic Fangio is the Packers' "top choice" for their defensive coordinator vacancy.

    New Bears coach Matt Nagy wants to keep Fangio on staff, but that could be difficult after Chicago passed over the coordinator to hire Nagy. Despite issues on the other side of the ball, the Bears' defense overachieved under Fangio the last three seasons. He would be a good hire for the Packers.

    Rotoworld

    Also: Adam Schefter reports the Packers will interview ex-Browns coach Mike Pettine for their defensive-coordinator vacancy. .....rotoworld
     
  17. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Fangio is more available if Gase wants him though the Bears want him too....

    " NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Bears new coach Matt Nagy is expected to retain DC Vic Fangio.

    Spots are filling up, and the Packers have settled on Mike Pettine for their DC position, a spot Fangio was a contender for earlier Tuesday. Fangio won't have many other options if he doesn't go back to Chicago, though he's one of the best defensive play callers in the league." ..................... rotoworld
     
  18. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    its probably a mute point since we still have Burke onboard. Any firiingwould have probably happened already.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Moot is the word you meant, not mute.

    I'm not giving you crap, just telling you in case you're ever in a professional setting.

    Also, for you and everyone else, we all use "moot" wrong. It doesn't mean pointless to talk about, it actually means the opposite. It means to discuss something for purely academic reasons, as in you can't actually change or have power over the situation you're talking about, so you might as well discuss it for ****s and giggles.

    Basically EVERYTHING we discuss here is moot.
     
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  20. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Ya I think that we would of had some hints if that was in the potential works by now.

    More my hope than the organizations. Feel the need for new blood with the hopes of someone who can help influence Gase and make him a better leader, which is another reason I'd like Fangio besides the obvious....... Not a big Burke enthusiasts ....
     
  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think a lot of what people want to lay on Burke as failures have more to do with the team's inability to play complementary football. Are there things he can clean up? Yes, certainly. He already made mention of playing more dime looks before the Buffalo finale. And, in that game, he experimented with Walt Aikens in a role you'd probably want to see T.J. McDonald take on if Miami are able to add someone to play as a deep, centerfield-type safety. Maurice Smith was on the NFI list at that point, so we didn't see it and it is puzzling to me as to why we didn't see it when McDonald first came back. But, that fact that Burke seems aware of this is a good thing in my mind.

    There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the scheme, but I think we've seen players not match up with how they played before. Andre Branch's play took a big hit. Cameron Wake had a month-long stretch where he disappeared. Kiko Alonso was asked to do things in coverage he shouldn't have had to do, and I think that affected his play against the run. Lawrence Timmons really faded as the season wore on. Miami had to use three different players at MLB throughout the year. They used four different players at safety next to Reshad Jones throughout the year.

    Yet, the run defense improved considerably. The total defense improved a bit. The passing defense took a bit of a dip, but I think that's somewhat expected since Vance Joseph's background was in DBs and Miami were playing a rookie and a 2nd year player, who missed 9 games as a rookie, for most of the season. The points allowed and per/game averages spiked a bit, and I think you can squarely point to the Baltimore (14 points off pick-6's) and Carolina games for that. But it seems people quickly forget that this defense shut down Atlanta's offense, in Atlanta, save for one deep pass. Miami held Tom Brady to one of the poorest outings he's had in a long time. Where I think this defense falters is that they just seem to miss making drive ending-plays. Cameron Wake missed sacks in back-to-back weeks against the Bills and Chiefs that would've ended drives; those drives went for points. T.J. McDonald couldn't catch the screen pass in Buffalo. That drive ended in points.

    I think if Miami are able to add another DE so Cameron Wake doesn't have to be a full-time player and they're able to get more production from Branch and Harris, the D-line will be back to what we're accustomed to. Getting McMillan back should surely help. And, if they're able to add a Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, Kenny Vaccaro, Tyvon Branch, etc. to the secondary I think that will help with keeping Kiko Alonso out of bad coverage situations.

    IMO, too many people don't look hard enough at the circumstances as to why the defense failed at times. They just simply think it's Matt Burke. He was a rookie DC; he'll improve. But Miami's players have to improve and they certainly need to upgrade personnel in certain places.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  22. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Ronin....
    Wow interesting post and shows a great amount of thought. Enjoy reading posts that are so informative even when I may disagree. I guess I'm being influenced greatly by the organization and lack of faith in the teams leaders insights evaluations and amount of time it takes to become aware of problems.

    Think that what we do could have been greatly more efficient than what we've seen. Thus I have to put the blame on leadership. Ya not real contenders but would like to see a consistent improvement as time went on instead of more confusion. Thus a Fangio I'd hope could bring some more experience if not for the Defense just as importantly maybe to give Gase more insight and input, which I think he needs badly.

    Was pulling my hair out for almost the whole two years on a DB and backfield who seemed to be constantly 4-5 yds off WR's with Joseph also. Seen to many missed tackles and again a lack of any consistency, which in my view something that makes a team and not a pretender. Do understand two rookies DB's back there and don't have alot of expectations in year one for them but seeing our pass protection not even in the same area code of WR to often was just nuts. We've had no growth of consistency for QB, OL, DB, LB, etc. going on now into a third year..... But was nice to finally see some tightening up of the DB's again at the END of the season and the rookies experience starting to show benefits....

    Funny got better run defense from the DL but poorer pass rush...
    I just don't see much to be excited about ( actually nothing)....from a lack of shown progression from this staff....Its those spurts of ability like the Pats game that actually feed a grasping hope that we have acceptable organization. And then we play like crap.....



    " IMO, too many people don't look hard enough at the circumstances as to why the defense failed at times. They just simply think it's Matt Burke. He was a rookie DC; he'll improve. But Miami's players have to improve and they certainly need to upgrade personnel in certain places. "

    Its is more than Burke but IMO he is part of that whole that needs, and has needed a wake up call..
     
  23. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm posting this here for now. This is Jim Schwartz talking about the origins of the Wide-9 defense. I think this is a good, informative intro to the wide-9.

     
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  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Fangio is a helluva coach. But if Gase were to bring him in, you'd have to switch around a lot of personnel to fit what Fangio's always run, a zone-based defense basing in a 3-4 front. Not that the 3-4 matters much these days as teams are in nickel and other sub packages two thirds of the time anyway.

    I get wanting to have an experienced guy running the defense, but there is literally no one in the NFL, other than Jim Schwartz, who has more experience than Matt Burke in the Wide-9 defense. Burke was an assistant with the Titans dating back to '05. I think he knows what he's doing and I think we saw some pretty creative game plans throughout the season in certain games. What I think Miami was bit by, other than bad complementary football by the offense, was not having effective personnel.

    - Cameron Wake has never been a good run defender, and his pass-rush disappeared for a month.
    - Andre Branch really struggled this year; perhaps due to injuries. He was better in 2016.
    - Kiko Alonso was asked to do too much in coverage, I'm assuming based on perceived deficiencies in secondary personnel.
    - Lawrence Timmons really faded over the course of the season.

    But, this defense works and you don't have to look any further than Philadelphia to see it. They were 4th in points allowed, 4th in total defense, 1st against the run, and 17th against the pass, likely because teams couldn't run on them. I think if Miami are able to upgrade the DE, OLB and add a 3rd safety so they can incorporate more big nickel and dime fronts, this defense can take another step. Plus, Burke's a young guy and I think he'll grow plenty himself in how he calls games and how he game plans.
     
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  25. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Well id be all over Kris Richard hes been allowed to look for employment at the seahwaks as they let their offensive coordinator go as well!
     
  26. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Wow

    Have to give you credit you sound like you really eat sleep and breath this stuff. And seems absurd to ague with your input, since if all correct you are so far beyond my fan level and what the hell are you doin in here?
    All I know is what I see and I don't get near into it as you for I'm already crazy enough with what I think I do see. Been watching the Fins since they're inception and have gone on instincts all these years and I'd say the majority of time my instincts were correct 75-80 %. And yes wrong sometimes too. Actually accepted Cutler and even Gase but seen enough now and think I was majorly wrong.
    My sense from what I've seen is a undisciplined scattered, no direction team on both sides of the ball. I attribute this dysfunction from the leaders directing these players. Players who have at times been standouts doing poorer than usual, Wake, Suh, Timmons, Ajayi, first rdr Tunsil, and wish that Kiko was a backup and not competing as our best LB. so I think to myself this is not normal and IMO it all points to the leaders in which Burke has some of the responsibility and doesn't seem to have proven that his leadership and influence if any has been adequate enough to not try something or someone new. Even when they end up doing the right thing it seems to take 3/4 of a season to get on track and actually now that I think about it Games too. For what we have is not and I don't think will in the future work without proper knowledgeable take control leadership, which I don't see and haven't for awhile. Guess Shula spoiled me and after 20 years the other crap has gotten to me.

    Really like your posts which right or wrong are very thought out and at minimum for me something to usually think about. Hey I like learning also, just kinda hard headed when it comes to the Fins....
     
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  27. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for the perspective. It was a sobering read for me, as I was wholly unimpressed with Burke and the defense the second half of the season.
     
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  28. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this was suggested, but make Fangio an assistant head coach?
     
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  29. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    None of these good things will happen. Ross has entrusted operations to a guy who just might be a bigger idiot than Jeff Ireland.

    Seriously! I didn't think it would ever be possible to top the move of cutting Karlos Dansby and Burnett and incurring large amounts of dead cap; and then turning around and signing Danelle Ellerbe and Wheeler to huge contracts, but the contracts given to Branch and especially Kiko, who could have played this year on a RFA tender, may top that.

    We have to face facts; the ownership, FO, and coaching staff are just rotten to the core. The only reason the Dolphins have any success at all is because we have few guys on our team who display elite greatness and inspire some of the young guys.

    Ironically, a lot of fans want to get rid of guys like Ndamukong Suh and Cam Wake, which would send the Dolphins into companionship with the likes of the Cleveland Browns.

    Dolphins need more greatness not less, but that is hard to accomplish when large portions of the cap go to mediocre QB's and bad LB's, not to mention part time players like Mike Pouncey.
     
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  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miami already has two, Rizzi and Bush.
     
  31. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Well, a good way to keep Burke but giving him someone to answer to in Fangio. You don't have to embarrass Burke by demoting him, but he gets to benefit by learning from a veteran coach. Ross has plenty of money to spend on coaches as needed.

    If Fangio prefers a 3-4 defense though, it probably won't work as we'd have to change up a lot of the defensive roster.
     
  32. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Hate to say it but I also think the Dolphins FO and coaching staff is the biggest problem that needs not only to be fixed but for Christ sake even aware of would be a plus. But NOOO, so we add on a few extra years it will take to get it that we need an overhaul. Oh But we Made the playoffs....lol

    With all the dysfunction and needs to put together a team, we might as well consider ourselves already in the upper level of the Browns category... As much as I enjoy watching Suh and Wake can understand getting rid of them just because the team is still in its 2 decade mode of "rebuilding" and are not close enough to be ligitimate during the time period of Suh and especially Wake.....
    Pouncey I'd try to get a nice pick for because he is an exceptional player but just injured to often..

    Also love the wasted time in Free Agency on acquiring OLmen and LBs. Its like they don't realize they need real starters and feel that fingers crossed backups with the hopefully over achieving potential will fill the bill....And this goes on and on and on.............
    Good for me for I lost faith and hope for this team in the near future and actually has made my life less stressful through the season due to such lowered expectations. Usually though theres some movement you hope will produce growth in the off season that relights that spark but with these people steering the ship I see little hope of achieving much more than mediocre level in which to many view as a success....Screw the playoffs....
     

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