Not Flynn. A few of us (including me) were calling fools gold on Flynn. All you had to do was watch his one game.
Fair enough. Nick Folk, on the other hand, was anointed by a lot of people as one of the next best things.
“Led us to the playoffs” Ya know I think that is fair. But what if someone said “Ryan led us to 8-8, 7-9” in years past......would you have a problem with that? Or would you say W/L isn’t a Qb stat??
I was strongly against all of these "one year wonder" QB's because you didn't know why they looked so good- they were in excellent systems with a lot of other complimentary components. Osweiler falls into that camp as well. I think the only player I would have taken like that is Jimmy G, but (1) we clearly couldn't afford him and (2) Belichick never would have traded him to us in a million years. I think I'm officially rooting for the 49ers next year though because of the trade (and to spite Kaepernick).
How do you feel about it? To me? It is like many of situations, there is likely more to it. I think it is largely a very blanket statement for anyone to say he led us to 7-9 or he led us to the playoffs. However, in my opinion (I have no hard evidence to share) he was very instrumental in leaving us at 8-6 before the knee.
I don't like people attributing overall record to the QB, unless it's obvious that the QB is clearly terrible.
but didn't Wilson make the pro bowl? exactly!!! if we have 3 wins and he has a pro bowl then your on to something, however RT will never make the probowl, so this conversation is over. the w/l is on the qb unless the team is so depleted as in seattle and even in that case he almost got them there. RT with a fully healthy team will still be struggling to make the wild card.
when teams win the qb gets the credit, when they lose its the qb that's just how it goes. You cant give praise and not faults that's why the qb position is the most important, that guys has to be mentally and physically strong, Theres a reason the nfl makes rules to protect them its the most important position in football.
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I don't know why this "W/L is a QB stat" debate has to persist. Look.. if X% of win% is due to the QB, then win% is to X% a QB stat. The QB is the most important player in football, so "X" is not tiny (I once estimated it to be around 15%). Point is.. win% gives you SOME information about every player that contributed to win%, including the QB. And with large sample size, even a 15% influence will show up pretty strongly in a correlation. And that's exactly what you see. Just look at the top QB's (in your mind) in history and guess what? Win% is highly correlated with most people's personal rankings of QB's. That's no accident. So YES win% provides information about QB play and can be used as one of many stats to measure QB ability. To suggest otherwise is to say the QB has no influence on win%.
That's how it goes does not make it right. So people who draft QB's should draft ones from College with winning records? Do QB's in bad divisions with weaker teams get a pass? It is a different world than it was in the past. QB is still extremely important, but going by wins and losses and dismissing other factors is weak and lazy. Good QB's have bad records. Bad QB's have good records. How do you explain that? Surrounding players make a huge difference, sometimes even HOF QB's can't change that.
for once an intelligent comeback. Oh by the way the great year you seem to think RT had last yr we still needed 3 of 4 when he got hurt to get into the last playoffs spot. just reminding you.
explain a bad qb with a good record? yr by yr yes I get what your saying a qb has down years and good years, but good qbs don't usually have bad records heres a few: dan marino 155-103 brett favre 199-123 tom brady 221-64 Russell wislon 73-34 jim Kelly 110-67 tony romo 80-53 RT 37-40 randall Cunningham 85-58 joe flacco 102-67 just a few with rt in there, good qbs win games its simple math I understand w/l records aren't a direct correlation to a qbs game for many variables, but to say w/l records aren't good to determine qbs is a stretch good qbs win games that's just simple.
Nowadays pro bowls mean squat. It's a popularity contest. All Pro's are a good way of judging individual players.
Look, you tell me Wilson, one of the best QBs in awhile can't overcome a depleted team to get the playoffs this year....but you judge Thill even though his teams have consistently been worse than what Wilson played with this year....and then you try and pretend your stance is intelligent? Puhleaze.
Nice cherries you picked there. Were/Are any of these QB's better than RT? Most were under or just above .500 and yet won Super Bowls. Why? Jim Plunket (2x Super Bowl winner) 72-72 Trent Dilfer (Super Bowl Winner) 58-55 Brad Johnson (Super Bowl winner) 72-53 Doug Williams (Super Bowl winner) 38-42 Joe Namath (Super Bowl winner) 62-63 Eli Manning (2x Super Bowl winner) 111-103
I picked great qb's which everyone is stating RT is playing at or heading towards. IMO every qb you named besides broadway Joe is average and played on great teams, great teams don't need qbs, good teams need great qbs. Ravens tampa prime examples had great defenses needed a qb who just game managed. besides eli being BB kryptonite when he plays great he is avg to me. However Miami has neither they have a good to above good defense with a few changes could be really good. offense is average at best. so therefore need a great qb which rt is not. how many of those qbs won super bowls in their first 6 years? just wondering.
I think over a career it is fair to insert W/L record into the equation. Not so much for a single season however. We know how it goes, extremists will claim Ryan led us to the playoffs last year, but somehow didn’t lead us to average to below average in years past. The other side will point to his record as an indicator of his performance then leave out his playoff caliber season giving credit elsewhere. Kind of how it goes around here. Sad because both sides are very silly.
put Wilson on the dolphins and watch how easy we make the playoffs that's all im saying. you seem to the think the team isn't good, Miami has most pieces to the puzzle than alot of teams just somehow we can never do anything with it.
WTF? No one has ever said that RT is heading towards Wilson, Marino, Favre, Cunningham, Brady, or any of the others you posted....
All I said was that just going by wins/losses is a bad way to evaluate QBs. On the ones you listed, I would probably take those teams those QBs played on over every team RT has played on, even before I start to look at the QB play
Put RT in Seattle and the same could be said. Hell, put RT in New England and he probably has a Super Bowl by now. It's a team sport.
like I said b 4 its hard to say RT led us to the playoffs since we still needed 3 of 4 to make the last playoff spot, did he help yes but you have to give Moore credit as well.
There's a difference between being the single most important part to winning and losing and straight up saying the W/L record is a QB stat. Again, look no further than the Jax/Buff playoff game.
rt has not played to Wilsons level at any point, and by any means would Pete Carroll ever take RT but in this dream world ill play along, rt would have never lead that team to 2 super bowls. RT is far inferior to Wilson. and BB as well would never take RT, Rt is so far off the qb that he wants its not even imaginable almost lol
Dafuq? You think 2012-2015 the problem was Thill? Let me say this again <ahem> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I never said w/l is a qb stat I said good qb's have good w/l records, I do know there are many variables that go into a team game of winning and losing. but what I am saying is when a team wins the qb get the credit and when they lose its blamed on them the qb position is super important.
Moore deserves credit for sure, and RT was certainly playing well enough vs AZ that I thought we would win. So I’d say Matt needed more like 2-3. But he did get those first 2 to make #3 moot. Years past Ryan I think may have not got 2-3 but I think the new found comfort level he found is evidence enough for me to think he gets 2-3 as well. I also don’t buy the well he played 2 bad teams (Jets/Bills) because we played a lot of bad teams last season that seems to be forgotten by a lot of fan’s. The reason Ryan is still such a polorizing figure both on here and in the sports world?? Is because the jury is STILL out on him. So anyone who places him from 10-20 has evidence to do so, issue is the people who have him at 10 are ridiculed by people who have him at 20, and the people who have him at 10 ridicule the ones that have him at 20. All this RT **** isn’t hard to figure out.
That’s why sample size over a career or a high number of years is a better way to use that W/L thing. It really isn’t valid for a year, good or bad. If Philip Rivers goes 12-4 one season to 4-12 the next, it normally isn’t that Phillip Rivers started sucking.
you hit the nail on the head I couldn't said it any better, I have said many times the clock is not out on RT and next yr will definitely be the tale of all the tapes, one side is going to be the winner this time next year and its pretty much in RT hands who wins lol.
and 2016? 4 games left we were still vying for the last playoff spot, like I said we had not a lead on anyone in the playoff race it was still that a race, we still needed 3 games to get the last spot, if what you say is true we should have had one already only needing 1 of 4 when RT went down. im taking "your' sample size of his good year, I'm not even including his first yrs because the team was at best horrendous.
ok, ill go get my glasses checked, I wish someone would back me on this because its been said multiple times he was top 10 and there has been debates that have turned into people attacking people so you sir are wrong.