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Dolphins signed LB Terence Garvin

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Walter, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Dolphins signed LB Terence Garvin, formerly of the Seahawks.

    Garvin played 195 snaps last season, making three starts. Miami has one of the worst linebacker groups, but Garvin should focus on special teams. (Rotoworld)
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He was a safety/spur in college at West Virginia and that's the lens through which he should be viewed. Miami sniffed at Emmanuel Lamur in free agency, another player who was a safety in college, but Lamur chose to sign with the Raiders.

    Seahawks are one of the defenses that go with 2+ linebackers on virtually every snap, but this is in large part because they've had Bobby Wagner with his 4.4 speed and coverage chops, as well as the super-lengthy K.J. Wright who is one of the most savvy, if not necessarily among the fastest, coverage linebackers in the NFL. They're in a strong position to eschew Dime personnel.

    Yet even they have found that once you take those special players out of the equation, you need to be sticking hybrids on the field to help with pass defense out of Nickel personnel. That's why the primary backup to Wagner, Wright, and Wilhoite ended up being Garvin, a former safety/spur hybrid.

    Miami is one of the teams that eschew Dime personnel packages (they used it I believe 7 total snaps in 2017). But they don't have NEARLY the same right to do so as the Seahawks (with Wagner and Wright) or Vikings (with Barr and Kendricks), for example. They had an aged Lawrence Timmons, who was never all that fast even when he was young, and a Kiko Alonso who runs a 4.7 and is kind of spotty against the pass.

    Later on they were so desperate they started using Stephone Anthony as a pass specialist in predictable passing situations out of Nickel personnel. What is funny about that is if you knew Stephone Anthony as a prospect out of Clemson, you knew coverage was his big question mark, despite his having timed well in the 40 yard dash. He had the look of a Base linebacker who could be a thumper against the run but might have to sub off the field. But he was the ONLY linebacker Miami had with any sort of speed whatsoever, so they were desperate enough to make him a pass specialist. Yikes.

    Matt Burke has signaled several times that there were personnel issues about their Dime usage, not particularly liking what they had at safety behind the starters, and that they recognize the game has evolved to where they need to start looking for hybrid LB/S players. These two issues (the hybrids and the Dime) are inextricably linked. They tie in with the same things.

    So signing a Terence Garvin is a way of covering your bases before the Draft, because the Draft is so up in the air, you just don't know what is going to happen when all the scenarios run their course.
     
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    @ckparrothead What you wrote is another reason why I think Smith would be a great fit here.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Roquan Smith, who is lately being rumored to go well before Miami can get hold of him, would fit as one of those Bobby Wagner/Deion Jones type linebackers who have such great speed and instincts that you can have them on the field in pass situations and not bat an eyelash about it. I don't think he's a hybrid, per se. He's just a linebacker that satisfies your requirements to be able to be used in every situation. Miami doesn't have a single one of those thus far, and you need TWO if you want to be one of those teams that eschew Dime.

    But of course the answer could simply be not to eschew Dime anymore. That's where Derwin James or Minkah Fitzpatrick would fit in, provided T.J. McDonald is actually pretty good at playing a spur position.

    This is why I keep saying the LB and S issues are linked together. There are a lot of different ways you could attack the exact same problem. You can do it by getting a HUMONGOUS linebacker like Tremaine Edmunds, or you could attack it by getting a small-ish safety like Minkah Fitzpatrick, or anywhere in-between.
     
  5. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    With all the QB,s and the 2-3 definite top picks Barkley, Chubb, and Nelson, I'd be very surprised if one of these guys, Fitzpatrick, James, Smith, Edmunds didn't make it to 11. Now our FO having the wear all to pick one is more of a unknown.
    For the QB question is at hand though I believe more a smoke screen than reality...

    Supposedly Gavin has speed and thats a big plus when looking at out LB's....And we can use the help on special teams... He and Kiko 6'3" 235ish....be nice if he could bring some competition there.

    Hey they picked up 2 quality OL this off season and that actually exceeded my expectations and brought a little hope of progress and maybe building for a future and not next years playoff game...though a bit younger would have been better...
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    But just putting him at the SAM, IMO, would do wonders for Miami's defense, no? I get that he's been known as a LB'er who can't shed blocks, but I don't see him getting tied up with too many blocks. He's too quick and smart.
     
  7. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Thanks for the education CK. The more I read about the 4-2-5 base and the spur the more I like it. Not saying anything about Garvin because I don't know JACK, but I just wonder if we have good enough personnel (hem...hem...Kiko) at the other positions to make it happen. Armando says we don't have a strong side LB on the roster. Maybe we don't need one if we go this route (in the draft and with Garvin) as long as our Mike and Will are good tacklers.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Bengals used to use Emmanuel Lamur as a SAM linebacker. He was a rover/safety in college too. He was a lanky, 6'4" & 232 lbs player. Garvin is more like a bit over 6'2" and 222 lbs. I wouldn't rule anything out, yet.

    Armando and a lot of other people are trapped in "base think". Everything is about base defense. Base defense, base defense, base defense. Everything is the front SEVEN, the THREE-FOUR or the FOUR-THREE.

    Those people need to get with the times. Today's millennials eat ***, and today's NFL defenses are nickel. It's a front SIX now. If you account for hybrid players the proper way as defensive backs (as that's what they've been, historically) then the dime defense is in as much use today as base defenses. Think about that. You've got a 4-1 or a 3-2 on the field in the NFL as you do a 4-3 or a 3-4 nowadays.

    Except for some teams.

    The Browns were a dinosaur, although to be fair Christian Kirksey was a REALLY strong coverage linebacker coming out of Iowa, and the defense was originally supposed to feature Jamie Collins who is another super strong coverage linebacker.

    The Dolphins were a dinosaur and they had no right to be. You could argue the Titans were also a dinosaur that didn't have the right to be a dinosaur. I believe the Bears as well, if I recall.
     
  9. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    CK, you got me thinking. I may get skewered for this, but do you think Shaquem Griffin would fit as a SPUR? He started out as a safety and seems to have some of the qualities for the position: Speed, tenacity, instincts, determination, smarts. Not sure if he has the hips or coverage ability though.

    Disclaimer: He is an alum, and I am pulling for the guy. Would love to have him on our team.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  10. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Damn...your ability to write what I think (and can't put to screen/paper) is awesome.

    Your part about "base defense" is so exactly right and not something you see or read about in the mainstream sports media.

    I think many types of players could play in many types of formations for the Dolphins defense. So BPA for defense may actually be the pick. Whether that's Edmunds, James, Smith, Minkah, Vea (Players we have at least some chance of getting) is anybody's guess, but if you had to, out of those players, who would the Dolphins pick? Who would you pick? For me, if anyone cares, it would be either James or Smith, but if it was any of these guys I wouldn't complain.
     
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  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He fits as much that way as Terence Garvin.
     
  12. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    I don't know what to make of this as Garvin's 40 yd is almost identical to Alonso's. He is listed anywhere from 222 to 235 so who knows.Obviously we need linebackers so we will see.
     
  13. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I dont completely agree with this hybrid theory. If you want to to run the wide 9 you need stud linebackers who have the bulk and poa strength to take on blocka and stuff the run while at the same time being fast and athletic enough to run with and cover tightends and backs. Athletic freaks like bobby wagner are needed for this type od defense to be consistently succesfull. Your linebackers need to be good against both the run and the pass, we havent had linebackers like that here in Miami in ages which is why we suck at covering tightends and or stuffing the run. We need to draft stud LBs likr Tremaine Edmunds who can do it all.

    Guys like garvin will help in coverage, but they will be a liability against the run.
     

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