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New 'Use of Helmet' Rule Explained - Sort Of

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The rules seem clear but then, this is during slowmo replays. How refs are going to make these calls during live play is another question.


    PS - I know this should technically go in the Other NFL forum, but it being June, and it affecting all teams, I thought I'd post it here.

    Mods, please move if need be.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Turns out there's quite a few Tweets etc. on the new rules, and existing ones. I could do a thread if people are interested.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Playing devil's advocate as a former player here, you HAVE TO lead with your head in order to tackle someone. Perfect technique would have your head sliding to the ball side of the player and making contact with your helmet and shoulder pad at the same time, but it is very hard to do when both players are moving at full speed. So yeah, a lot of times you go head first aiming for the chest, but the player tries to duck the tackle and you end up helmet to helmet. It is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid happening 25+ times per game.

    I get why they are pushing these rules.....it's concussions for offensive players and potential spinal injuries for defenders. But I guarantee you that close to half of all NFL tackles will now be eligible for a penalty flag. Like I said, it is IMPOSSIBLE to try to tackle with proper form on someone that doesn't want to be tackled at full speed. You're asking players to make adjustments faster than their mind could even register....much less command their bodies to do.

    Now, I get what the opposition will say.....a hit like Landry's last season or Kiko's the year before looked like they were trying to intentionally maim the other guy. But seeing it and actually doing it at full speed are two very, very different things. Just try tackling your plastic outdoor trash can at full speed where your head never makes contact with the top of the trash can...and then remember the new rule calls for an EJECTION if you can't do it perfectly every single time. Most of us couldn't even use the "proper technique" once though on that stationary target.
     
  5. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I played rugby, not football when I was younger.
    Its perfectly safe and possible to tackle without putting your head into the opposing player. I will also say leading with the head is designed to knock the opposing player over and seems to me to be more likely to cause whiffs than a shoulder tackle that allows you to wrap up the ball carrier.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
    Surfs Up 99 and Galant like this.
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wrap and Roll
     
  7. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Are they gonna do like in college where they throw the flag, then review the tape?
     
  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Exactly, me too. Anyone who grew up playing rugby knows how simple this can be, it will just take deliberate retraining. Perhaps practise tackling with no helmets. Guaranteed no sane player will lead with the head without a helmet.
     
    Pauly likes this.
  9. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I had one bad head knock in a game, and after that no more. Once was enough to learn, even for me.
     
  10. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    The problem with a rugby tackle is that it isn't designed to stop momentum, its just designed to get the runner to the ground. When you are tackling someone that is trying to run for 2 yds and a 1st down you need to hit them hard enough to physically stop their momentum. In Rugby unless the runner is about to make a try the runner going an extra couple of feet doesn't really matter.
     
  11. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    It depends on whether you are talking rugby league or rugby union (I’ve played both), how important any extra yards are (if you’ve got someone backed up against their tryline you want to keep them there) and the number of supporting players they can offload to. In rugby union whether you want to create a ruck or maul also comes into play.

    Since in football you don’t have to worry about the threat of an offload, or lateral, you can be more aggressive with your hitting. You’ll see rugby tacklers stop opposing players dead in their tracks often enough, but often the game situation calls for a more conservative approach.

    Oh and trust me when you tackle in rugby, either code, that extra few feet make a huge difference in setting your defense for the next play so you never give them up fot free.
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Whilst this is technically true there are plenty of very hard hits in rugby, sufficient to send the player reeling backwards. The pertinent point, though, is that because the head isn't protected you can't realistically use it to spear an opponent. Instead, you need to use your shoulder. It works though.

    The message that needs to be delivered to NFL players is that just because they've got helmets on it doesn't mean their head/spine is protected and can be used that way. This should be obvious by now. Spearing opponents with your head is illegal. The league is now just experimenting with rules to further deter players. What they need is re-training, and that's going to have to start lower down in college and even high school football.

    There are tactical benefits too. There's a documentary floating around out there about the Seahawks and their move to bring in some rugby-based tackling trainers to get their guys improving technique. If I'm not mistaken, I recall their being decent results demonstrated. Spearing players might offer less risk of players falling forward when hit hard, but it also offers greater risk of tacklers missing the tackle entirely, or glancing off, and not stopping the runner at all. In the long run, tackling players properly the first time, almost every time, yields better results.
     
    RevRick likes this.
  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Latest pieces on the Seahawks and tackling:

    3 years later, Pete Carroll’s “rugby style tackling” video still changing football, increasing safety By Kenneth Arthur@KennethArthuRS May 20, 2017, 10:40am PDT - LINK

    "The shoulder-level, “rugby style” tackling techniques, which the Seahawks have been using every year under Carroll as he started coaching this as far back as his USC days, helped Seattle’s defense reach historical levels from 2012-2015; in their Super Bowl win over the Denver Broncos, the Seahawks had just two missed tackles in the 43-8 win, their second-best game of that season in that category. "

    ---------------------------------------

    And Michael Bennett - LINK:
    "Seattle Seahawks Michael Bennett is taking his game his overseas. The defensive end, always looking to improve his play, is looking to rugby for ideas.

    Bennett, currently in New Zealand, dropped in on Aukland’s Super Rugby team, the Blues, on Monday.

    “Everyone that plays rugby is so tough and the way they play through injuries, and bounce back week in and week out – we look at them for inspiration to be tougher players and better defenders,” Bennett told the local media, per Newshub.

    Over the last few years, the NFL has placed a strict emphasis on player safety and the avoidance of head injuries. Bennett believes the key is improved tackling.

    “When you have a helmet on, you can think you are invincible but to be able to know where your head is at, and be able to move and tackle with your shoulders,” Bennett explained. “That’s what we are learning to try and prevent injuries to some of our best players.

    “Everyone right now is looking at ways we can prevent concussion, and protect the players and the young players coming through in both rugby and football.”

    Bennett has kept a close eye on rugby over the last few years, watching tape and studying the technique, which has translated onto the field come Sundays.

    “We are known for our defence,” Bennett said. “We call it Seahawk tackling but the reality is it’s rugby tackling.”"

    -----------------------


    And Dan Quinn also (LINK)...

    "FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. – Following the recent rule change that now makes initiating contact with the helmet a 15-yard penalty with the potential for ejection, the subject of tackling has become a hot topic around the NFL.

    For the Falcons, it’s something they’ve been focused on since head coach Dan Quinn arrived prior to the 2015 season.

    “Well, No. 1, I’ve been a big proponent of a leverage-based shoulder tackling technique for a long time,” Quinn said after Wednesday’s organized team activities (OTAs). “So, it’s something in our program that we’ve really tried to teach hard. For you guys to understand it better, I think the main thing is when is the helmet used to initiate contact? And you say, ‘Dan, that unusual, it could be a center and a nose tackle.’ That’s not really where the rule is. It’s more when there’s time and space and an offensive player or a defensive player has the decision that they can put their head to the side and use their shoulder. You teach that anyway, but in the heat of it, you’ve seen some examples where we haven’t done that as well as we want. It’s going to take a hell of a lot of teaching and continued work on that, but, for us, I feel like it’s our responsibility to teach it the best.”

    Often referred to as a “rugby-style tackle,” the Falcons’ approach involves keeping the head on the backside of a ball carrier and striking with the shoulder rather than the traditional way of a player leading with his head across the front of a ball carrier.

    Falcons defensive coordinator Marquand Manuel helped explain that approach in a seminar with local media earlier this offseason, and it will continue to be a point of emphasis for the team heading into the season."

    -----------------------------------

    Meanwhile Harbaugh chirps in on the new rule - http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-most-nfl-coaches-already-teach-safe-tackling

    "Baltimore Ravens coach John Harbaugh fully supports the NFL's new rule against using the helmet to tackle, but he believes it will be an adjustment for only a small number of teams.

    "We already coach that way to get it out of the game," Harbaugh said. "I think 95 percent of the coaches in this league coach that way, and the other 5 percent have to get on board."...

    "I told the guys today, I said, 'You know what? There's going to be a call or two this year that's going to go against us, and we're going to look at it and go, Huh? Really?'" Harbaugh said. "But that's OK, because the payback is the fact that it's better for the players and player safety. That's the way you have to look at it."...

    Harbaugh was also part of the committee that helped formulate the new kickoff rule, which eliminates running starts for kickoff coverage teams, removes two-man wedge blocks and requires eight of the 11 men on the return team to be aligned within 15 yards of the ball.

    "We want to keep the exciting play in the game, but we want to make it safer -- especially for concussions," Harbaugh said. "I think we did that. I actually think there could be more returns, because there's more incentive to return the ball, because it's going to slow the kickoff play down a bit -- but that's the idea.""
     
  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    And here was that 'teaching tape' from the Seahawks:

     
  15. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Oh don't get me wrong I loved playing rugby and have nothing but respect for the sport. I'm just pointing out the slight difference in the game that makes the difference in tackles make a little more sense. In Rugby that extra 2 feet amounts to 2 feet closer to the try line(or 2 feet further away from their try line). In Football the extra 2 feet might mean that the other team gets a complete restart on offense.
     
  16. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for a hybrid approach that makes it safer. I was just pointing out the reasons (in my opinion) for the different tackle philosophy.
     
  17. PlayinHarder

    PlayinHarder New Member

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    Transitioned from football to men's league Rugby (Union). Knocked my self out twice during kick offs my first game. Needless to say the other player was not very happy with me. I learned quick and through training how to tackle correctly in rugby.

    One major difference that I found was that in football you often times have more speed and distance between the offensive player and defensive player.
     
  18. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Basically in football the goal of a tackle is
    (1) knock the ball carrier over.
    In Rugby it is
    (1) prevent an offload
    (2) control how/where the ball carrier falls
    (3) knock the ball carrier over.
    In rugby you have the issue of ‘wasted tackles’ where the defender makes a good tackle, but the offensive player is able to sustain the offense.
    So while there are a lot of tackles in rugby that are softer than Football tackles the main reason for it is the different priorities defenders have in the two games.
    Edit: Or in other words, the shoulder tackle is not inherently a softer tackle that gives up more yards than a head on tackle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    New rule does not prohibit leading with your head, necessarily. You just can't lower your head.

    This really shouldn't be a controversial topic - proper tackling technique teaches players to always keep their head up when tackling. When I was in HS we would run drills where players would put their head down and coaches would smack their head to one side or the other.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I went through the same drills- a kid was paralyzed in Broward county back when I was in high school for tackling with his head down, it snapped his spine in the neck. So coaches were very serious about making us keep our heads up when hitting....it's just hard to do at full speed when the natural position is dropping your head.
     

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