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****The Official 2017-18 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Boik14, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Hurry up and get to practice...

     
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  2. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, but he's an elite 3pt shooter, which is a big commodity. Far worse players have signed for about what he should get. It's kind of strange that he hasn't signed anywhere. Reportedly he wants to be back in Miami, and they want him, but they don't want to go into the luxury tax with a mediocre team. It makes me wonder if they have something agreed upon, but are in the process of dumping salary first.
     
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  3. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The problem is, the money doesn't come off the books any time soon. Whiteside has two more years, same with Dragic and TJ. Waiters and James Johnson have even longer deals. Cap relief isn't coming any time soon. They're going to have to make trades to open up space. It's looking unlikely that they do it this offseason, but it could be easier to do next offseason when Whiteside and TJ will be on expiring deals.

    The one guy they can legitimately move early is Dragic. He's a good player on a pretty good contract. If Miami isn't going to get any good players via trade this offseason, I'd trade Dragic for a draft pick or young player to build with. Rebuild with the young guys getting heavy minutes.
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You’re not wrong in what you’re saying. But I think part of it could be that he failed so many other places.
     
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  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that leads to him signing a 1 year deal in Miami, I'm all for it. I honestly don't understand how they're going to rationalize signing him unless they dump some of these other deals. At best, they're a year away from rebuilding with a real star, but more realistically it's two years. Why pay Ellington if that's your situation, when it will only handicap your cap space moving forward, and if it's going to put you in the luxury tax bracket with a mediocre team?
     
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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I ask myself that question most times the Knicks make a move. Welcome to my world. Lol
     
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  7. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’d love to pair Goran Dragic with Jrue Holiday. Heat fans, is there a trade you’d propose that didn’t involve AD or Jrue?

    Here’s a trade. Pelicans take Whiteside off your hands in order to get the Dragon. Heat gets tons of expiring money for next summer. Yes, I’m a homer. No way Riley would agree to this.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8hj8byj
     
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  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Knox with another stud line and Frank Ntilinkina had 17 and 6. Love how Frank kept coming back to the fact the team lost in the post game. Kid is a leader
     
  9. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point the old man would agree to anything that would get Whiteside the hell off the team. He would trade him for a bag of Doritos if he could.
     
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  10. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the long play is to get something of value back for Dragic, because Whiteside should be more moveable next offseason, but maybe they'd be content with dumping two max deals. I'd imagine that deal would have to include a 1st round pick of some sort, though.
     
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  11. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I wouldn't make that deal simply because LaMarcus Aldridge and Gordon Hayward have shown that Miami is like everyone else and needs something that will attract free agents. We'd be trading our only two players who could credibly make an all-star game without receiving any actual assets. Expiring contracts are nice, but unless we can guarantee a signing we're just going to be stuck signing a bunch of Olynyk's and Johnson's again because we got left holding the bag. Any deal has to be predicated on at least partial youth compensation, whether those be draft picks or young developmental guys.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2018
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  12. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you're probably right when it comes to Dragic, but I think they are desperate to move some of these big deals, so it's possible that they'd include him in a deal to shed a big chunk of cap space earlier.

    To me, LaMarcus Aldridge and Gordon Hayward, I think, actually prove Miami has a shot at any FA that hits the market. Miami had nothing more than the mid level exception to offer Aldridge and still got a meeting with him. With Gordon, his other options were more money and become a legend in Utah, or go and play with his college head coach who he had a great relationship with and a team with a ton of assets, and reportedly he damn near chose Miami anyway. I hear what you're saying, but I think Riley understands that he made a big mistake last offseason and convinced himself to buy in to the second half of the previous year. It was a very "un-Riley" thing to do, and I don't see him making that mistake again. If they get cap space, I strongly feel that they won't commit to any mediocre players longterm, and will just let Spo coach the hell out of them like he did two seasons ago, and let someone else overspend on them when they overperform.

    Ideally, yes, they could get a pick/young piece for the future for Dragic, and dump salary anyway. But if you don't dump the salary, you're kind of ****ed for the next couple of years. Because of that, I could see the case for just doing what you can to get rid of as many of these deals as possible, even if it means using Dragic as a sweetener.
     
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  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm fine with salary dumps. I honestly believe that's the best we can do with Whiteside with his current trade value. It's just that trading both Whiteside and Dragic at the same time absolutely has to net something more than expiring contracts. I think Miami boxed itself in with the loyalty and #HeatLifer marketing. It almost felt immoral for Miami to not re-sign some of those guys.

    As for LMA and Hayward, you make a good point. The fact that we were the third team in both of those scenarios (LMA interviewed with everyone but was decidedly cold on most of the pitches) counts for something. I'm highly critical of the front office on the draft/youth player development front, so I'm concerned with how much we rely on free agency. It's just more efficient to have some young guns on the team at lower salaries. For a while Chalmers was the only young contributor, then it switched to Cole once Chalmers got old. I'm naturally going to be hesitant discussing deals that don't return anything young.
     
  14. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Id do the deal.. but the heat mindset is no one but the Warriors is winning next year, so they may stand pat and see the east as up for grabs since it got relatively weaker with lebron gone and a few losses to philadelphia
     
  15. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed. Ideally, you get a young piece for Dragic, and still find a way to move those contracts. At the beginning of the offseason, I was firmly in the camp that that's the only way you move Dragic. I'm starting to change my thinking, though, if things get desperate. Here's why. Would you rather move Dragic for what would probably be nothing more than a solid young piece, even if it means having to wait another year to be a real player in FA? Or if it came to it, would you rather bite the bullet, and just have a max slot available as soon as next season without the young piece along with it? You'd love both, but if I could only pick one, I'm going with the latter.

    I definitely agree with you on the loyalty stuff. The moves last offseason were a pretty bad miscalculation, but at the time, I didn't hate it (although I was strongly against matching the TJ offer sheet at the time), but I was hoping those contracts would be easier to move, which doesn't appear to be the case.

    I agree with you to an extent on the development side. I would love to see them do that, and with their last two lottery picks, had they landed the player that went after their pick (Devin Booker), and the guy that went ahead of their pick (Donovan Mitchell), imagine how different things would be right now. But I'll actually argue that the Heat have done a pretty good job of developing young players that don't have high pedigrees, especially post-Big-3-era. Look at what they did with Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson, and now Derrick Jones Jr. Even the two lottery picks are showing some real potential. Winslow hasn't become what we hoped he would be, but he's still a valuable player, and better than most of the players taken that year. And while I too would like to see them put more value on developing a young star, rather than relying solely on FA, Riley has had a ton of success doing it the other way around. With the exception of Wade, the rest of Riley's success has been strictly through FA and trades. I do think that strategy is changing just a little bit, but it's hard to fault him for that philosophy when it's worked so well for him.

    Again, ideally, they can have it both ways. It's not actually a pipe dream, either. Biyombo just got traded. But as much as it would suck to lose the value, I'd be willing to bite the bullet, if necessary, if it sped up the rebuild.
     
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  16. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The Heat are looking everywhere to dump salary. They want to pay wade and they have told Ellington to sit tight, theyll find him money.. the issue is finding a deal that makes sense for them.
     
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  17. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    So with Luc (not gonna try) going back to the Clippers, does anyone else view this as players trying to get paid while the Warriors dominate? Ariza gets a cool $15 million in a BYE season, Reddick re-upped on a 1 year deal worth $10 million less even.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2018
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  18. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Yup, might as well cash in and cruise for the next couple seasons.
     
  19. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    According to Woj, it sounds like Houston and Miami are the frontrunners for Melo. Interestingly enough, I'm not sure it would be a good idea for either team, unless Miami is unloading contracts in the process.

    FWIW, Presti was sitting with Riley at the summer league yesterday.
     
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  20. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    We better be unloading contracts. I dont want him at all really but if we can unload some contracts and have him off the books next year, without him taking playing time away from our young guys, its not too bad.
     
  21. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you can unload contracts, it's ideal. You basically have to match his salary, so you'd be dumping quite a bit for a year of Melo. I'm not optimistic that it ends up being a trade if it happens, though. A buyout seems more likely. And Houston is also probably the favorite, you'd think.
     
  22. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    National media is panicking because Moute ($4.5 mil) and Ariza ($15 mil) left for double the salaries they got from Rockets.

    Meanwhile, well-informed Rockets fans are sitting back waiting to get Melo for less than $5 mil and possibly trading Ryan Anderson (20 mil) + 2019 first round pick for Kent Bazemore ($18 mil).

    Ariza and Moute for $19.5 mil (not including huge luxury tax)
    Or
    Melo + Bazemore - Ryan Anderson for $3 mil (no luxury tax)

    Which is smarter?
     
  23. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you think Melo is a good fit? I don't think he was a good fit in OKC with two other ball dominant players, similar to what it would be in Houston. Melo is an iso player, and I doubt that's what you want with Paul and Harden. I guess the best fit might be him playing when those guys are off the floor, but that doesn't happen all that much.
     
  24. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    National media is panicking? Don’t flatter yourself. No ones really paying attention to the Rockets. We all know how they do in the playoffs.
     
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  25. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thinking about it from Melo's POV, Miami might actually be his best choice if he's willing to meet their conditioning parameters. If he is, that's the place that will keep him in the best shape he's been in in years, probably extending his career. He also could potentially be "the guy" again in a weakened Eastern Conference, and potentially play with one of his best friends. He also would stay out east, closer to his son in New York. And living in Miami isn't so bad either. Would he have a better chance at a title in Houson? Probably. But if we're being honest, it's pretty unlikely anyone beats GSW. Plus, Melo has shown a pattern that suggests winning titles might not be his top priority anyway.

    That doesn't mean I think it's a great move for Miami, but I do think it's might be the best move for Melo if he buys in. And I guess that's a big "if".
     
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  26. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    That's cute. Way to f### up on Boogie and Rondo.
     
  27. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    mirror Melo's minutes with Chris Paul's minutes. He'll be fine.
     
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  28. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That’s not a **** up it’s a gift. There’s never been a player who was the same after tearing an Achilles in the NBA. Dominique Wilkins was the closest and no one even remembers that he averaged 26 a game as a clipper. Basically Achilles injuries to NBA players have shown themselves to be the equivalent of an ACL tear to an NFL player pre 1980. Look it up. The stats aren’t pretty. Boogie can help GSW but I’m not expecting him to ever be the same player. They’re probably better off with Mirotic and Randle at this point sick as that sounds.

    Losing Rondo..eh wrong side of 30 and a headcase. If I was a Pels fan I wouldnt be upset.
     
  29. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    An irrelevant team just became more irrelevant. I honestly feel bad for AD. You're going to find out just how important Rondo was.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not very. He forces Jrue to play out of position and can’t shoot a lick. If anything it helps if they can acquire a more natural 2 and a good backup pg if/when Jrue misses time.
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Pelicans can have any two guards from our team... just take these contrActs from us... yall want dragic and richardson? We will take an expiring and a pick..
     
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  32. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Whoa bro Richardson is making only like 11 mil a year and is still getting better, I think not.
     
  33. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    For the 5 mil GSW paid Id say it’s worth the risk for a talent like Cousins. They gave up assets for a 1 year rental, it’s gotta sting.
     
  34. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See, that's where I'd draw the line. I'm not giving up JRich or Bam to get rid of expirings, and I'd even be hesitant to do that with Justise. And even if you did decide to use those guys as sweeteners, you sure as hell wouldn't have to do it with Dragic. He's not on a bad contract. He's the 12th highest paid PG in the league, and he's a borderline all-star. He's not someone you need to dump, he's someone you trade for value, or at worst add to a bad contract.
     
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  35. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    You're absolutely right. Dragic is still an asset. He is still a damn good player, plays hard, doesnt *****, and has no off court issues. No need to include our young cheap players. Either way, I'll trust Riley. He's gotta be licking his chops looking at the 2020 free agency if he and Andy can clear the space. I just wish I knew wtf our plan was.
     
  36. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Losing Cousins after a 1 year rental is annoying but you can’t predict a career threatening injury. I also agree with Boik, this is very likely a blessing in disguise. The team will play faster and more efficiently without Boogie. We’ll be fine without him.

    Rondo will be missed more than Boogie. He was pretty lousy during the regular season. His leadership was what shined in the playoffs. But this is AD and Jrue’s team. Your best players have to be your leaders. Not some over the hill guard who can’t shoot. Hopefully he was their Yoda and they learned from him.

    I don’t think the Pelicans ****ed up. ****ing up is giving Ryan Anderson a 4 year $80 million contract and then not being able to give him minutes in the playoffs because he’s terrible at basketball.
     
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  37. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, Jrue is better at the 2.
     
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  38. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I dont understand why heat fans are so enamored by richardson... there were many times we were better wih ellington..
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They gave up Buddy Hield and a mid 1st. Its worth a gamble id say.
     
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  40. eltos_lightfoot

    eltos_lightfoot Well-Known Member

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    Hahahaha! You think Melo actually makes your team...better? How about no. I really don’t want him on the Heat, but if he makes things better cap-wise the following year I would do it. The rockets would be a terrible fit for Melo.
     

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