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How much of a Diva was Landry?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PlayinHarder, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Cutler barely standed in on 1st and 10 the hell if he was gonna stand in on 3rd and long to let stick routes develop.

    Miamis 2016 numbers are skewed by a thru 5 weeks complete mess. From protection to player execution. Gase even said as much and when asked about benching tannehill went on that famous tirade about 10 pass plays 7 hits etc. and also said tanny was one of the few players during that stretch to grade out a positive.

    That titans game was so bad in terms of what the oc could call due to protection and overall oline play the only thing anyone should have done with it is throw it out. But that probably reads like excuses so whatever. The tape told me a lot different story.

    We scrapped the tempo based o cause the qb spent half his time making sure guys were set right/getting them set right vs verifying protections and making pre snap coverage reads. The whole idea of the tempo in the first place so the qb could check into something else if need be.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just off the cuff, why do you think when we targeted Landry like 8 to 10 times a game our record was like a 250 winning percentage, and when we didn’t it went up to like 750 win percentage?
     
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  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t understand, I think the argument is relative worth, are you saying he’s worth what he got paid?
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Yes, b/c even when I was hoping we'd resign Landry (at a much lower price), I was mentioning many of these same criticisms as reasons why we shouldn't go too high.

    You sure you're just not being contrarian or letting your fandom blind you to the fact that many other players were more efficient?
     
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  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'd prefer to live in a world where the options are Stills, Wilson, Amendola or Grant are my options as the go to guy on 3rd down than one where only Landry is.
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's the million dollar change right there- options with an "s" on the end.
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    ...with Drake as the outlet pass or RT's mobility scrambling for the first down. That's what this offense was always supposed to be under Gase, yet we never saw it due to two "me first" players. I'll give you three guesses who they were...
     
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  8. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I’m sure. I’m sure I looked at that tape as much as anyone and I’m also sure I know the splits etc relative to the formations and alignments and someone is gonna have to show me examples of that from the way we lined up to the route concept post snap before I buy into that one.

    It has nothing to do with any fandom nonsense

    Now if you want to tell me that he winged some of the depth of his routes in the stem I will go along with that one. He still converted at a very high clip. Mostly because he’s hell on wheels as a runner with the ball in his hands.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I realize this is a “fan” site and fan is short for fanatical..

    However I would temper my expectations for Albert Wilson being someone who makes us forget about Jarvis Landry.

    Remember, not many WRs look BETTER when they are not in the Andy Reid system.

    I’m cautiously optimistic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  10. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    So we didn’t have other options cause we dialed up 3rd down sticks concepts with Landry the primary option?

    Or was it because juice was the most consistent producer on 3rd down and had the best nose for the sticks?

    We sure ran a lot of clear out and primary sticks concepts for him.
     
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  11. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    We chased the scoreboard for a vast majority of the time while Landry was here and/or had horrid oline play even so that stuff carries no weight for me. Not to mention 2017 with the worst starting qb in football. If not I don’t want to know what worse is.

    Numbers in a vacuum are pointless way I see it.
     
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  12. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    In the club we got insider reports last season that when Gase was complaining about players not studying and/or not running what he called, that Ajayi and Landry were two of the players he was referring to. So while some may think these are new criticisms they are actually issues that have been discussed for a long time.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't in Club at the time but I heard the same thing from a completely different source, so I believe it was true.

    It sort of leaked to the media about Ajayi and they still trashed us for trading him. I never heard it publicly said about Landry though so that's interesting.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I think those two statements are the same thing- Landry was our main 3rd down outlet because it was the safest call. And since he got most of the passes, he obviously had the most first downs.

    That's really on the coaches though more than anything and Jay Cutler. He didn't know the offense and he really didn't care to learn it, so we played very basic formations last season with only a fraction of our playbook. That will always benefit the "safe" outlet players in any offense, but that doesn't mean it was always the best option.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bottom line Key is Jarvis could be an essential piece for a championship offense but he can’t be the guy making 15 mill..that’s out of whack structuring of your team.hes not dynamic enough, and the debate keeps going in circles..

    Not the right kind of leadership and not enough explosiveness for the number..

    And a punk to boot..

    Piss off Jarvis Landry
     
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  16. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    The best option is the one that moves the sticks and keeps you on and your d off the field

    You are confusing safest with primary progression by the way.
     
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  17. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope these club insiders were a lot better than the vip “insiders” from the site I came from.

    I was told that the spacing with juice in the buffalo game was an obvious issue. I asked for examples cause that didn’t jive with what I saw on tape and I heard fandom nonsense and crickets.

    I’m used to it. Was hoping there would be some actual tape examples to reference etc to back it up.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’ve been here since inception, the record shows the sources are legit.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Well, just look at our stats for total offense, 3rd down efficiency, scoring efficiency, etc. Landry can't be the best option AND we're dead last in the league in offensive performance. That's the part everyone is missing- our best was clearly not good enough.

    And the screens to Landry weren't a progression- they were designed plays all the way. He was obviously going to be open because he was behind the line of scrimmage and defenders were giving him a cushion (since there was no chance he'd beat them deep).
     
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  20. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    You are referring to screens i am referring to 3rd down.

    And built ins aren’t progression based. They are box count based. The true called wr screens were few and far between. What did happen was the built in was by and large for juice cause he was the best rac option in the building. Something that seems to get left out here when it comes to what juice brought to the table.
     
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  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Good cause one thing I don’t do is fluff pillows.
     
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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your not alone who don’t like fluff pillows Hoops
     
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  23. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    My experience is people who carry themselves as authorities don’t like to be challenged when it comes to this stuff.

    Well I can tell ya if it doesn’t add up I’m gonna say my piece on it/ask for clarification/examples.
     
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  24. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Club has 2-3 people who when they say something?? You should listen.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t need you to post gifs for me personally..I know what you can do..unless it’s really something specific you want to do..

    I’m confident I can do my own work if you have an eval about a player and come to a conclusion
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you're lecturing us on fluff and hitting us with a whole lot of it. Jarvis caught the most passes in the league last year on a team with a 6-10 record. He also threw punches in 3 of 16 games, plus picked up more unsportsmanlike penalties than anyone on our squad (or anyone in the AFC East, for that matter). You can praise him all you want but he was 2nd to last in YPC only to Fasano on our 2017 team. Every single skill player except for our blocking TE would have done more with those 100+ receptions- including 3rd stringers on the bench. The numbers don't lie...Landry clearly hurt more than he helped last season.

    Oh, and according to Travis, 44.6% of his catches were within 3 yards of the LOS. 1 our of 5 were at or behind the LOS. Those are not progression based throws. He averaged 4.89 yards after the catch, which sounds great and all, but not when the plays consistently go for 4-7 yards total. It's a big part of why we were in the top-5 for 3/outs and among the worst offense in the league.

    Everyone here liked Landry and loved his work ethic, but the viewpoint you're trying to spin simply did not exist. Landry racked up on garbage yards/catches that other teams gave us because he wasn't going anywhere. The big plays you're talking about are way too few and far between- he averaged 1 big play about every 3 games.

    Compare that to Drake or Grant or Stills who did so much more on a fraction of the targets...and you'll learn why they're still here and Landry isn't.
     
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  27. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    You are telling me I am hitting you with fluff and you are dropping stuff on me like every single skill player on the team would have done more with those 100 catches.

    There’s only 2 guys on that team that even have 100 catch talent let alone do more with it. And one of them just exited.

    And you are trying to punish the guy for being the primary sticks concept option.

    That’s bull **** frankly.
     
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  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Jarvis was a fun Dolphin to watch and root for.

    He will not be easily replaced, however we may be better off w/o him. If that makes any sense to some of you.
     
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  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Nobody should. People should do their own work and come to their own conclusions. It's nobody else's job to prove things to anybody (not directed at you).
     
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  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that we'll be better off. As much fun as Landry was at times, he also was a headache and did things to hinder our offense. I admire his drive and work ethic, but his selfishness hurt our team. Those issues were long-standing and acting like they were new is just lack of information. Fact is that Grant, Amendola, Stills and Wilson were all more efficient players so the idea that they can't get as much or more separation on third down is unsupportable. Some of their route trees will vary as their skills vary and I don't want any of these guys to catch 100 passes, but I have no trouble believing we could get that and more from the combination of them (and at a higher YPC).
     
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  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm just flat out excited to see the 223 targets that Landry and Thomas got last year be split up among everyone else.
     
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'll gladly debate till the cows come home but I'm not playing the troll game- I gave you several stats showing why Landry sucked and you ignored them.

    YPC doesn't lie- Landry was 2nd to last. Wilson was used in a similar way in KC and his numbers were over DOUBLE Landry's per catch, so it's not the scheme either. The problem was Landry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Volume stats are usually one of the stats least correlated with success.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's not true- not when a single player is leaned on that much. Plain and simple, you have three downs to move the sticks. That only gives you so many opportunities per game when the sticks aren't moving.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    You think I’m trolling? Lmao buddy there’s no bigger losers in life than cats who troll on a damn message board.
     
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  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Pretty much agree. Collectively we should be a better offense, but none of the receivers mentioned above (save maybe Kenny) are as good of a football player as Jarvis.

    I’ll niss the fighting for every inch mentality, but spreading the ball around moving chains will do wonders for making us forget about one four.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed 100 percent Rafs.. hate it when some do that, like they think we’re crazy for having such an opinion...

    Hey if you can’t see it, then disagree and let the record be the deciding factor..

    I’ve learned that we all see things differently and evaluate differently to come to our conclusions..I don’t need to post gifs to prove to you when I have a record.. either respect it or don’t..( not directed at you:)
     
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  38. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    you don't want to know what my translation for that "if you can't see it" stuff is.

    i'm in this buffalo tape right now. anybody got anything they want to reference? if not gifs specific plays or hell an example of these juice spacing issues that are so obvious?
     
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  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Would’ve been some solid advice to a certain new poster around here a few months ago, who’s rebuttal was “show me film” and folks though he was legit
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, but you keep quoting me while ignoring whatever I said. I'm not sure what else you can call that.

    Do I need to share it a 4th time? Landry had the 2nd worst YPC of any skill player on our team. Wilson's YPC was double Landry's last season and his YAC were also double, yet you called him a one trick pony....even though he's used exactly how we used Landry.

    So fill in the blanks for us- what are we missing from this equation?
     

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