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How much of a Diva was Landry?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PlayinHarder, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think anyone else who posts here has the level of technical understanding Carmen Cygni does with all due respect to Travis, CK, Ronin, etc. and so on. I certainly don't.
     
  2. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    my delivery is blunt like a hammer at times. that's the part that gets me in trouble. have to be mindful of that
     
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  3. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been in club but I'd agree with that from what I've seen out here.
     
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Oh, I agree that Carmen is probably right at the top. And I typically agree with what he sees. Not necessarily because I'm seeing the same thing, but I think he knows more and sees better in regards to the X's and O's than most here. He is however, mostly giving his opinion.
     
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  5. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Hoops is legit, him and CK are probably my only must reads on this site so far. Only posters who have said subtle things I've actually seen on the football field. There was one more guy on the other site who was a little arrogant but I he was also a must read. He was banned and hasn't turned up anywhere which is really too bad.

    Sometimes these forums can be tough when everybody has to flex there "football knowledge" muscles. It drives the real knowledgeable folks away which is a shame. I hope that doesn't happen on here. Case in point CK and Hoops don's post at the other place any more.

    I still go there, I like the traffic. I don't offend easily. Basically I'm not that baby who turns down the volume so I don't have to listen to a certain broadcaster. Ridiculous baby behavior. If I don't like something I read, I move on.
     
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I think that's Carmen....lol
     
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  7. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    My opinions on football are mostly just assumptions and guesswork. Then there are educated opinions from our more knowledgeable posters. Naturally their opinions have more value and are more relevant. However, does that mean we can’t all discuss the Dolphins?
     
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  8. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    ask him what he thinks of kiko Alonzo. that will tell me

    we had royal battles over him
     
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  9. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    A liability who often tries to do too much instead of staying sound within his run assignment, also below average in coverage. But then again, everyone on that LB corp is a liability until (hopefully) McMillan shows up in a few weeks.
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    As I tried to illustrate with a funny football story (that really pissed me off in the moment) to show there are all kinds of fans. You and Carmen have both mentioned another site where it didn't work out for you, and now it's not really working out for you here either.

    It case we're keeping count, those are three facts.

    The reason it's not working out for you guys is because you're expecting everyone here to act like retired ex-coaches who can break down film, talk about concepts and identify patterns. Another fact- you won't find that on any site. There are several in the Club section that get in-depth with film study but they're also breaking it down far enough so the average fan can follow it. A few other members (Travis and EmDiggy) do that for us in the general section during the season. But since they're both in the media, they don't expect us to come up to their levels to talk advanced concepts...they keep it simple so everyone can get it.

    I said all of that to say this. If you're going to get mad at people for being casual fans with opinions not based in film, then you're going to be miserable on any football forum. But let me tell you something- all opinions are based on film because we're all commenting based on what we remember from live play. No, it's not the same thing...I get that...but that's the best you're going to get on a public forum.. Some people will be completely wrong and that's fine...it's not your job or mine to demean them for not having a super high football IQ. The only real requirement here is being a fan.

    I've enjoyed both of your posts on several occasions and I hope you guys end up staying here. But the biggest fact that you have to accept is that you can't demand others to prove their point with film breakdowns and concepts. A few will take the challenge while most of them won't, but that's not a reason to blast anyone.

    I'll tell you a better approach- and this is also a fact. If someone is annoying you with BS commentary, then SHUT THEM UP with exactly what you're asking of them. Grab some film or stats and prove them wrong. For instance, I referenced the play of Drake and Grant earlier based on stats I shared in posts months ago. You disagreed and three different people here grabbed different stats, puled film, made charts, etc. If that's what you enjoy, then those are the folks to argue with to have a great experience here. And you can always put the folks you don't care for on ignore.

    But you can't get pissed at folks for loving the Dolphins and having no idea what they're really talking about- that's just not a requirement for being a fan on a fan forum.
     
  11. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    HAHA I didn't realize but those quotes in his sig lead me to believe you guys are right. The guy I'm speaking of always emphasized football was a team sport and defense wins. If Carmen is a chef I found him and the join date lines up as well.
     
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  12. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, but there are a lot of really good posters here, you included.
     
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  13. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    it's not him. cause the other guy would have never accounted for what was around kiko in his assessment.
     
  14. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Yeah I agree, the other guy really hated Kiko. Like Mike Hull should be starting over him hated.
     
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  15. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah propped up mike hull and hated kiko
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Thinking back, the funniest line of the night was, "That little guy got beat for a touchdown because his wife's a loudmouth whore." (talking about Grimes) "They'll keep doing that all night because that poor little guy probably doesn't get any sleep around that tramp."

    While the drunks didn't know football, they sure did know Kiko Grimes.
     
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  17. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Gamepass -coaches film. I watch every Fin game typically at least 2-3 times, on many other occasions dig deeper into specific drives or plays, and study the other 32 teams on the regular as well. Most that discuss X&O's are not relying on some memory reconstructed from 6 months or 3 years ago. It's an ongoing, present process.
     
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  18. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't be that smart of a poster then.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I know you do- and I appreciate that. But you can't expect everyone here to have the same level of passion for film that you do.
     
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  20. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    ehh I'm not mad at anyone dad.
     
  21. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Well I will say this other poster went out of his way to answer my questions from time to time and I appreciated that.
     
  22. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    At the end of the day, it’s still just an educated guess. I would say a fun journey getting there however.

    If player evaluation was as simple as internet guy who used to coach middle school, then FA and the draft would be a breeze for the REAL pro’s.
     
  23. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This is likely true.

    However I don’t see that as an open invitation to be an *******.

    Makes it hard to appreciate a solid football mind when they are constantly acting like the Paris Hilton of football evaluators.

    We have some really knowledable guy’s around here, and almost none of them stick their nose in the air.
     
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  24. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    I think it just comes down to respect for the time some posters put in and knowledge they possess. They are a football resource like no other you'll find on the internet. We should make sure they want to stay on and keep posting and not let ego's get in the way. I've never been shy about posting what I see, or think I see on Sunday's. I KNOW I'm not the most knowledgeable football guy in the world, although I admit there was a time where I thought I knew more than I do. Point being if someone says I'm wrong and tells me why I'm fine with it. i may not always let go of my theory but I'm not going to discredit somebody who puts in a lot more time into this than I do. I'm at the point in my life where only the Dolphins games are must watch. I don't usually give two ****s about Thursday, Monday or even 4:00 Sunday (unless it's us) and sadly a WWE Pay Per View will out rank a non Dolphins or non marquee match up SNF game. Most of those prime time games end up sucking.

    I think anybody here would be upset if they put in the time to watch and were told they were wrong just because. That doesn't make sense.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The problem I see is some folks thinks because they know detailed schematics, that they are the authority on personnel..

    Not the case..
     
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  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    and I don't have a problem with that either and I did a bunch of it at the other site. a whole bunch. what I don't have time for is the trolling nonsense. and there was a ton of that also.
     
  27. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Yup you did that for me also, much appreciated.
     
  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I’ve seen you around here and NBA, I don’t think you are as bad as you think.

    Much worse round here, that’s fo sho
     
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  29. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    well I only watch the Celtics games and the nba playoffs so take anything I say nba wise with a grain of salt. by and large lol

    hell I even tuned into some world cup trying to speed up the time until football...
     
  30. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    That is football....







    ~ducks~
     
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  31. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    well played
     
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  32. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Draft evaluation and assessment of player transition into the proffesionals is an art, and a completely different matter than X&O's which deals with coaching philosophies, schemes, strategy, plays, and player assignments. The two subjects are nothing alike. One is factual information (X&O), the other intertwines gathered information with opinion for projection.
     
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  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I agree 100%.

    If we are in a discussion about a particular play, then of course you can break that down.

    And yes, player evaluation is an educated guess.

    Not sure where this went wrong.
     
  34. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Are X&Os cut and dry factual though? I'm not attempting to be argumentative, but with the new concepts of how the game is played there is a lot of adjustment based on what you see, or more to the point what you think you see. So if player A adjusts for a shift in the D (as an example) however, we don't see what that player sees(or we interpret it differently) doesn't that turn our observation into mostly opinion? I think I'm pretty much just rewording what Dan was saying about Gase being the only one that knows for sure, and its possible even he misses something that the player on the field caught.

    Now eventually those opinions might be validated one way or another, so I'm not saying you can't eventually come to some factual statements about some plays. But on initial review with no input from Gase or the other coaches, I'm not sure how much can be put down as solid fact.
     
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  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Good god no!

    If you want to know anything to do with scheme, anything that goes beyond rudimentary, he's the one to ask.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is what I try and impress upon people. You absolutely can determine what a player is trying to do.

    Some are much better at it than others. An excellent background in coaching or playing will put you WAY ahead of the game in diagnosing the coverages, the play concepts, etc...allows a person to speak pretty authoritatively on such issues.

    But even without that background, with enough experience, you can get the general gist of what the players are trying to do and whether they did it or not.
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's not to say there isn't any gray area. I remember watching...gosh I forget which former QB it was, not Jim Sorgi...Dan Orlovsky? I think it was him. I get those two confused.

    Anyway, he started going after Josh Allen for a play, and I think it was one where he said that Allen didn't do something very basic like identify a blitz and go hot or something like that. This is a guy that played in the NFL for many years, Orlovsky.

    But Nick Hardwick and Bruce Gradkowski both came down on him, neither of them were Josh Allen fans mind you, and they both were like, dude, that's not correct.

    Gradkowski said that was a 6-man protection and the RB was supposed to stay in and block but released out and was like, uh oh, turned his head around quickly like "Oops, throw it to me hurry!"

    Hardwick chimed in and ID'd it a bit more technically, said it was Scat protection not Gone (empty backfield), with the RB supposed to take the weak side linebacker, with the OL responsible for the 4-DLs, the MLB, and the Nickel.

    Thing is, there IS a correct and incorrect on this. Gradkowski and Hardwick were correct. I believe Orlovsky even admitted that. However, it just shows you that even a very strong background can lead to getting it wrong.
     
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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You can make a very educated guess as to what you think the player was attempting to do. And of course that guess may be right. However, and unless Gase shows up here and/or the player speaks up, it's just an opinion. Players, and you know this, disguise, trick, pretend, whatever you want to call it, and sometimes something else in the play changes on the fly that what they LOOK like they attempted isn't really what it seems.

    By and large people like Carmen, 'Pate, Ronin, you, and a few others here are right most of the time in your assumptions about players and play diagnoses, but that's just another assumption on my part. I mean, I think you guys are right, but only Gase et al knows for sure. And of course the more info someone gives about why they believe what they do gives even more credit to their opinion. Which, again, may be fact, but we can't really know 100% most of the time.

    In short...lots of gray areas.
     
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  39. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    It can be. It's why film study of a team/unit over many games is important. That way you can note base forms and alignments and how they change due to adjustments, motions, shifts, etc. Also you can understand how the players are coached to play. Examples start from how a unit might execute or defend a specific play, to a defender's particular reaction to certain blocks he faces (how does the RDE combat a base, reach, or down block?), and trickle all the way down to stance tells for all lineman.

    A single play or even a single game won't give you all the answers, you have to study the opposition over a period of time. It's why division rival games are often so well matched. They know each other well.
     
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  40. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Ok that makes sense to me. I probably got off the weeds a little on the conversation.
     
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